Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:56 We bring you insights into ideas about, and discussions on disability topics. My name is Sam, I'm the host of this show. Miguel is my engineer. Charlene Doll is my research one. Hello, Charlene.
Speaker 2 00:01:07 Good evening everyone.
Speaker 1 00:01:09 We are speaking tonight with Galen Lee. She is a violinist, a songwriter, and an disability advocate. Thanks for joining me, Galen.
Speaker 3 00:01:21 Yeah, thanks for having me, Sam. It's nice to be with you again.
Speaker 1 00:01:25 Yeah. Um, so I wanna start out with those who, um, don't know you. I can't imagine who don't, you know, people that don't know you, but <laugh> now that you're so well known. Um, can you talk a little bit about, I mean, the first time that I was introduced to you was in with the Tiny Desk concert that you did for npr, but you weren't always a musician and you used to teach. So can you talk a little bit about your previous life and how you got introduced to the Tiny Desk concert?
Speaker 3 00:01:57 Yeah, that's a great question. Um, so I started perform, you know, I played orchestra all the way through high school and then I switched to folk music in college, um mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But then in, you know, in college I also started performing. And so I was performing a lot, but you're right, I was teaching fiddle lessons by day and then doing shows at night, like a few times a week or whatever. Um, but I heard about the Tiny Desk contest because a couple of my fiddle students actually sent me an email, which a link to, you know, to like read about it. And then one of my best friends, um, also sent the link and on the third time, you know, you're kind of like, wow, third time <laugh>, I feel like I should probably look at this. So I, I kind of started reading about it and I was hesitant at first because it was a contest.
Speaker 3 00:02:47 So the concert series, you know, they kind of curate that, but then once a year they have a contest where anyone can enter. And I was hesitant because sometimes contests are, I don't know, just kinda, kinda like all hype or maybe they have the right to exploit your stuff forever and ever. Right. But I looked at the rules and they were pretty cool. I was like, oh, this is actually just a cool contest. So I entered, um, about a week later because it was kind of closing soon. My friend who told me about it is one that filmed the video for it.
Speaker 1 00:03:18 So was it after that, I mean, what was it like when you got won that contest for you? Was it after that you just decided that you were gonna be like a total serious performer?
Speaker 3 00:03:30 Yeah, I mean, it, it was a big deal for me because I had been playing, you know, I, I think I took music pretty seriously. Like I, the reason I switched, I was an insurance agent before I was a fiddle teacher, <laugh>, but I knew what a switch, I dunno, it's like another life or whatever. But I knew I wanted to do music full-time, but I didn't know that, you know, like playing shows full-time is a pretty intense and like difficult way to make a living. But after the tiny desk, because it was a national contest and I had never had any national press, I started getting, um, requests to play and speak, um, all over the country. And so that's when I decided, well, if I was ever gonna try touring, this would be the time, right? Because when else am I gonna have this kind of push? So then my husband and I decided that we would try it out, but we liked it, so we kept going.
Speaker 1 00:04:21 <laugh>. So you were born with a disability called, um, osteogenesis Imperfecta. For those who don't know what that is, can you explain what that is and how it affects how you play the violin?
Speaker 3 00:04:37 Totally. Um, well, so the disability I have the, like layman's term for it is brittle bones disease. And it really just means that I'm my collagen, it's a genetic disorder. The collagen isn't formed, um, the same way as most people's, and I'm the only person in my family with it. It was a spontaneous genetic mutation. So, um, so it makes my bones more fragile. Mine are actually pretty sturdy for someone with, um, you know, with my disability. But I still broke probably 16 or so bones growing up and my spine is very curvy with scoliosis and stuff. So anyways, before I was born, my arms and legs, both all of them broke in utero and then healed in utero where they're kind of at 90 degree angles, like kind of where the elbow and then you would be, they're, they're permanently bent. And so when I wanted to play music in orchestra, um, I wouldn't, I wasn't able to hold the violin on my shoulder, the wave that I, that you should or normally do, I guess.
Speaker 3 00:05:43 And so mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I got lucky in that the teacher, um, was willing to kinda experiment with me. And we came up with the method where I play my violin up and down like a tiny cello cuz the cello is also just too big for Right. My arms band. So we kind of made up this new way of playing and it's, I've met a couple of people now who do it like that. So it's not completely unheard of, but it wasn't something I was familiar with and it, it worked really well and I just kind of kept going and learned alongside my peers with that different technique.
Speaker 1 00:06:17 And do you still play with that technique today?
Speaker 3 00:06:20 Oh yeah. Yep. I play it upright. Like when I do visual descriptions it shows. I always say I have my butt, my violin upright in my wheelchair, like a tiny cello cuz that's what I think of it as is like a little cello. And then I hold my bow like an upright bass player, which won't mean anything to anyone unless they know what I'm talking about. But I hold my bow a little bit differently too, because of the way my hands is angled because of those bends. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I couldn't hold it like a cello player does. I have to hold it underhanded.
Speaker 1 00:06:49 Gotcha. Galen, you did a Ted talk, which I thought was really awesome when I saw it, um, on sexuality and people with disabilities. And how did that come about that you got to do that
Speaker 3 00:07:05 <laugh>? It was, um, I just got asked and, um, the theme was Mind the Gap, which is kinda like living in the gap and that's the idea that came to me. I had written a big paper about that concept in a more academic way, um, during college and it's something that really makes me excited to talk about. So, um, yeah, that's what I chose as my topic. I had never done one of those before, so it was, it was a harrowing experience. <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:07:35 You, you talk a little bit about in that discussion about, um, society standards and that you feel like it was easier for you because you didn't feel like the standards fit you and so it kind of made it easier for you to do what you wanted and be who you wanted. Um, can you talk a little bit about that and does that still apply today?
Speaker 3 00:08:05 Yeah, I mean, um, that realization that, um, especially around sexuality and beauty standards, um, I felt growing up with such a visible disability that like no matter what I did, it was gonna be very obvious that my body was different. Um, like clothes or weight loss or hair were not gonna impact the fact that I used a wheelchair, my arms were bent, you know what I mean? And that I was really small. And so I just kind of like, it became kind of like white noise, the, the like advertising you see. Um, it's not like I didn't care at all how I looked. And I think everybody probably does on some level want to present themselves in a way that makes them feel good. But it wasn't based on normative standards, it was based on like what I liked basically. And so, um, I think it does still apply.
Speaker 3 00:08:55 I think actually what the big realization of the, the TED talk and the paper that I wrote was that it looks like disabled people are the people that, um, can have this realization. Like if you're left out of society's norms, then you can be free to discover who you are. But really everybody can do that. And so I think it's helped me kind of, um, like it's not like I don't fall prey to that and I think we all do sometimes like comparison, um, comparison on any, any standard, right? Like, how am I doing as a musician? You know, like how do I compare to this person? But Right. It kind of reminds you that those are all basically artificial, like, designed for capitalism. Like anything where you're comparing yourself against another person really isn't in your best interest most of the time. So it just kind of helps bring you back to reality.
Speaker 3 00:09:51 I think once, once you have that realization that, that a lot of society standards are not actually there to help you, they're there to make people money basically like the cosmetic industry or you know, plastic surgery or whatever it is that people do spend money on to fit in. Um, it's not there to like help. It's really not there ultimately to make you feel more fulfilled. It's there to make people money. And so when you realize that you can take what you like, for example, I very much like, um, brightly colored flower hair clips, but I don't necessarily care about brand names because again, it's all part of a scheme to keep us buying stuff basically.
Speaker 1 00:10:34 Right. Sometimes companies, it seems, especially lately, I mean they act like they're trying to do more with pictures of people with disabilities and their magazines. And do you feel like, um, that that's an honest try or do you think it's, they're just doing it to, I mean, I wonder how you think that that's really helping people with disabilities be included?
Speaker 3 00:11:04 Yeah, I have so many mixed feelings about that. It's funny that you ask that. Like, um, I think that inclusion is pretty much always good, right? Like normalizing disability and having it be visible in our culture is super duper, duper important because people don't, um, think about us unless they have a reason to. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, like unless they have ex exposure to it, I guess. But the thing that I think is like, kind of ironic is I think we should all not be advertising for like giant companies. Um, so like, but I guess it's good to have inclusion, but on the other hand, part of me is like, man, this corporate, like, advertising stuff isn't really in anyone's best interest. But I guess I still think that if it's your passion, like you, you know, I'm a musician, right? Some people really genuinely get a lot out of fashion and I'm not there to like shame them or like they really, really enjoy makeup. So like, yes, if you are gonna have, um, you know, products being marketed, then yes, you should include people with disabilities. Now do I think that's like the ultimate like, you know, I don't love it, but I'm not going to say that it's not important to have inclusion. Cause I still think that it is.
Speaker 1 00:12:21 The song that, um, we opened to with the show today was called I Wait. Um, which is really a very powerful song to me. And you know, if you listen to the lyrics <laugh>, anybody who listens to them will, will understand. Um, can you talk a little bit about the place you were in when you wrote that song and where it came from and what it means to you?
Speaker 3 00:12:46 Yeah. Um, that song in particular was about, um, during the healthcare debates when they were talking, this is back maybe 2018 probably, I think, um, when they were talking about gutting Medicaid and John McCain famously put his thumb down and stopped the bill from passing or whatever they were, it was very, very close. Right? Right. And at that time I was extremely frustrated that it, when you would read articles about who it would harm, um, if we destroyed Medicaid, it almost never mentioned people with disabilities. And I was like, what? That is like ridiculous cuz that is the group that will be,
Speaker 1 00:13:25 That's a huge portion. Yeah,
Speaker 3 00:13:27 It's huge portion of the group. It's not everybody. Right. I know a lot of people rely on Medicaid, but it was such a big deal to the disability community and it was like not being in the field of awareness for most of the reporting about it. You know, like people didn't even think about the disability side of it. They talked, you know, talked about a lot of other areas and it's, and they're all important, right? So you can't leave disability out. And so I wrote that song from a place of extreme frustration with just like, yeah, you, you, we need a seat at the table. But on the other hand, you have to still be willing to work with people where they're at, kind of, unfortunately. Like, you know, even if you feel like storming away and riding everybody off at the end of the day, unless you're willing to like, you know, be the bigger person or just keep going, you're not gonna end up achieving what you want.
Speaker 3 00:14:18 You know what I mean? So that, that song is like the frustration that comes with that reality of like always having to be the one that's like pushing dialogue forward, even though you're tired of it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and luckily shortly after that song was written, um, and not because of the song, it just so happened on the timeline <laugh>, but all those awesome advocates started getting arrested in their senator's office and people started finally talking about disability in relation to Medicaid. And I felt like at least it was getting some awareness that it deserved mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, but this song was written before that stuff started happening. So it was just a place of frustration, I guess.
Speaker 1 00:14:58 I still feel like there's not as big of a push, and I don't know if it's that there's, that people with disabilities aren't advocating like they used to or like, you know, used to hear about more protests. I I, I know you, you get, you know, different groups races or ethnic groups that are that protest in the L G B T that protest, but feel still like, um, people with disabilities are still kind of, I don't know if hidden is the right term, but they're just not out there as much as I'd like to see. Do you see this or is this my just not in the right place?
Speaker 3 00:15:41 <laugh>? Um, like, I mean, I I I agree. I, i I don't know. I mean, I feel like it's a mixed bag. Like I think there's more general awareness being raised around disability than I've seen I'd say in the last five years. Like, you know, major festivals are starting to talk about disability inclusion in the music realm. The music realm is the one that I've been most active in, right. Like accessibility in the arts and that is starting to change. Um, but I see what you're saying that like where, where's the radical activism, right? I, I personally, my personal belief, and you, you know, we don't have to agree obviously on everything, but my personal belief is that I think radical activism is a hundred percent necessary. Um, when, when it's like a, this has to happen right now or, or we've been trying forever and it's just not changing.
Speaker 3 00:16:36 I understand where radical activism comes in, but the thing that I'm working towards, um, in my own work as a artist advocate is actually shifting the cultural narrative. So instead of having to raise awareness by like chaining yourself to a bus <laugh>, which was so, which was so important though, like what Judy Human did and stuff, all that stuff is like the, the blocking the buses. I mean, they needed to do that because nobody was listening to them. Like they could not get coverage to save their lives. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> like, yeah, it, it, they needed to do something really inflammatory in order to get anyone to pay attention. But I think we're in a little different place now where my goal, instead of having to do that is to make, make people realize that oh, we're a valuable part of the culture so that they're actually like, excited about trying to make things better so that it's not like you're forcing them or you're guilting them or you're shaming them, but you're able to say, look, like, I know you didn't mean it because you didn't know any better, but now, you know, and like, what are you gonna do to fix it?
Speaker 3 00:17:44 And yes, that might, that won't, that won't work in every situation. Like, I will be honest, like I, I kind of think in the case of Medicaid, for example, we probably will always have to be doing sit-ins until culture really, really shifts. But on other things, the goal is to say, look, we all at this point in our lives in America acknowledge that it's important to support diversity. And if you do that, yes. If you say that you have to include disability and then make it more of a, like, don't you wanna be on the right side of history? Rather than like, and now I'm gonna chain myself to a bus. But I think they're both, they're both important and I don't think we should downplay any of them. But I think the ultimate shift that I wanna see has a lot more to do with internalized shifting of like what the value of disability is.
Speaker 3 00:18:37 And you're, and you're not gonna need to change yourself to a bus when people finally recognize that you actually have inherent value. So like, I think that's where the shift is, I hope, heading and it feels like that from the arts world, but maybe not in every other field. And I think, like somebody told me a long time ago that you need all sorts of ethnic advocates because mm-hmm. <affirmative> where you're, where you're effective, your work might not be effective in another area. And like, we just kind of all need to do what loses us, like what we're excited about. Um, so I think you're right, but I do think you're right. Like we can't grow complacent because even though I know we've come a long ways and largely impart like thanks to Judy Human and all the people that she organized, um mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we've come a long ways, but our rights are on very, you know, a tenuous ground. Like there's still, you know, you reverse a few laws and we're back right when we started <laugh>, you know, so we can't like get, we can't get like comfortable and say the time for activism is over. Cause I don't believe that's true either.
Speaker 1 00:19:46 In your performing, you use a, what's called a looping pedal. Can you disguise or describe what that is and how it works?
Speaker 3 00:19:55 Yes, I can. Um, so it's a metal box that is a recording device and I put it in my wheelchair, kinda like under my left leg. And it's got two buttons. One you hold down the whole time you're playing when you want it to be recording. So like, if I wanna start a loop, I'll push down and hold it until I want the second layer to start mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then when I let go of the button, it automatically starts looping what it just recorded. And so in this way you can build up like, I think my pedal does around 12 layers. Oh cool. Of sounds. So you can build up like a whole bunch, but you can kind of choose when to build and when to just let it play. Um, and it's, it's really fun. It's what's allowed me to do things with my violin solo that I wouldn't be able to do otherwise. And it also kind of allows me to experiment with harmonies and stuff. I really enjoy it.
Speaker 1 00:20:47 Yeah. It's quite amazing. Do you use any other petals in performing
Speaker 3 00:20:53 <laugh>? Um, I am a technological, I lack in those skill areas. So I have this petal that I have can do reverse and octas, and I use those sometimes so like it can reverse the melody line. Ah, cool. And it sounds really cool. Um, and then it can drop down to like a lower Octa and sound really slowed down and low. Um, and then I do have like a re a reverb pedal and, uh, distortion pedal, but I don't use them a whole lot. That is something that's really fun about violin and technology is like, there's like a billion things you can do. Like, there's so many things that I could learn and as well, I'll never be bored, basically.
Speaker 1 00:21:35 Have you tried anything with an electric violin?
Speaker 3 00:21:39 No. The closest I've come is I, I did buy <laugh>, uh, like a few years right before the pandemic. I bought a five string, so it's got a low sea string, so it kind of mm-hmm. <affirmative> like the whole cello vibe. It's got like the low, but it's, it's very different, um, positions. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> where the bowl goes. So I'm not very good at it, so I haven't really performed with it yet, but that's something I really wanna get better at cuz I really think it sounds cool.
Speaker 1 00:22:05 And what's your songwriting? Like, where does it come from? Is it, are you able to do it just wherever you want? Or do you need to kind of have a specific atmosphere? Does it come easy? Tell me a little bit about your songwriting.
Speaker 3 00:22:22 Yeah, that's a good question. Um, I feel like songs kind of bubble up from your subconscious when you're relaxed. Um, but it has to be like something that you've processed already. So a lot of times, um, like I haven't written a lot of songs about Covid yet cause I think I'm not quite through processing it. Yes. You know, like, um, and so they always feel spontaneous, but if you think back, it's stuff that you thought a lot about, but your sub subc just like, kind of re like shoves it out in a new way later. You know what I mean? Right, right. So, um, and then once I have a spontaneous idea, which is usually in the bathtub or like on a walk or sometime when you're relaxed and not really thinking about anything, I'll have an idea, but then I can kind of sit down and work with it and like rework it and change it and edit it and then like push, push to write more of it later. But you need that original spark. I think before, like even for the Macbeth soundtrack, I had, the, the main themes came to me in the bathtub and then all the cues, like they were, you know, 50 cues and they all got built up and they were all very different from each other. But they all came out of that one thing where I thought of these four themes. So you need the inspiration to strike, or at least I do. Um, and then you can build off of it in a lot of different ways.
Speaker 1 00:23:40 Gay. Um, if you could perform with anyone, who would it be?
Speaker 3 00:23:49 Uh, oh my goodness. I don't know. I'd love to meet like, it's like Pearlman or Yoyo Ma. Um, do something with them. That'd be so cool. I've always wanted to see Jack White's perform. I've never seen him live. He's like fascinating to me. It'd be fun to do something with him. Um, I, I honestly, I always try to hold those ideas with a light hand because it seems like one, like, you know, once you, once you start trying to force stuff to come, it doesn't work. But I just like to be open to whatever comes out. But those two would be really fun to meet in Jack White and I don't know who else. Like, I loved Simon and Garfunkel growing up. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So maybe Paul Simon or something. That'd be fun. Who knows?
Speaker 1 00:24:34 Who are the artists that you look to now when you're listening?
Speaker 3 00:24:38 Um, <laugh>. I have the weirdest eclectic tastes, uh, ever. So, um, I grew up, you know, as I said, like Simon and Garfunkel Wilco, um, the Decemberists Milk Hotel. And then, um, as I got older, I really got into like Duluth artists like Charlie Par and of course Alan Sparhawk of Lo. And um, and then when we started traveling, um, I started meeting artists that I really love to listen to, like wheelchair sports camp. She, CA Heiferman is a hip hop artist out of Denver who's amazing. She has the same disability as me. Um, and Ben La he's from Nashville. He's an amazing songwriter, probably one of the best. Um, and Jess Klein is an amazing songwriter. So just like kind of meeting people mm-hmm. <affirmative> on the road. And then when I'm home by myself, to be honest, I pretty much just listen to like big band music or Celtic folk music, like the quarries, the Scottish du
Speaker 1 00:25:40 Oh, that's funny. Okay.
Speaker 3 00:25:41 <laugh> like, I'm kind of way back in time on my own, but I do like to be exp like, you know, get introduced to new stuff, um Yeah. You know, here and I gotta do a better job at seeking it out cuz I love my old, my old, old, old music. That's kind of my jam
Speaker 1 00:25:58 <laugh>. Yeah. Well now that you're, you know, much more known as a performer with a disability, obviously that opens doors for you and hence why you can, I feel like you can use your advocacy a lot to make people aware of things. Do you ever find that it makes some doors harder to open because of that?
Speaker 3 00:26:25 Um, you know, it's a, makes big, I think that the world, you know, the grass is always greener everywhere else. Right. But like, um, the thing that is, you know, still difficult is that I don't play at inaccessible venues anymore. Right. And I'm really trying to get venues to see the importance of getting an ASL interpreter and captioning at all my shows. And, and you know, it limits where I can do stuff because, and, and now that there's covid stuff, like I really don't wanna become inaccessible to immunocompromised people. Right. So I've been trying to have masks at all my indoor shows, um, required and that's really tricky right now to get places on board with that. Some of them are like, the hook and ladder recently was really cool about it and that was awesome and I love them. So like there's, there's um, you know, it's harder when you have goals for like, where you wanna see things go because it's not really there yet.
Speaker 3 00:27:25 So you're kind of imposing these limits on yourself. Um, but I think it's important to set an example and to be like, but what I wanna see, what would make that easier is if big, you know, big acts from like Minnesota or the Midwestern or the national scene, um, also started saying, yeah, I wanna have captioning at all my shows an A S L and I'm not gonna play at a venue where a disabled artist couldn't perform. Um, recently I was talking to a, I'm not gonna name names, but like a well, uh, you know, a regional artist who's pretty well known mm-hmm. <affirmative> and he was saying that like, um, none of the venues they were at I would've been able to perform in Right. Because I wouldn't have been able to get to the stage. And it's like, well maybe that's part of the solution is a band as big as yours could say, you know, we're not gonna play at these venues cuz a disabled performer couldn't get on and he wasn't quite getting like he was, it's not there yet.
Speaker 3 00:28:25 We're not there yet. And I'm like, okay, well that's what needs to happen next. Cuz I think the door is, um, you know, and then there's still like the idea, I think in pop culture that disability is somehow a niche thing where you will, will resonate with other disabled people. And I just don't think that's true because A, that hasn't been my experience on the road. Like lots and lots of different kinds of people come to my shows mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so I don't think that my music only resonates if you have a disability. But the other part of it is, yes, 26% of Americans have some sort of disability, but like almost a hundred percent of Americans know and love someone, which a disability. So it's not a niche. Like, it's not a niche thing to have like disability be part of your experience even if it's not direct.
Speaker 3 00:29:14 You know what I mean? Right. So Right. I think that changing the narrative about like disability, like I don't always have to talk about disability, I can just make music. Um, but I would like to be promoted the same way as other artists. And I think a lot of times the only things, and not, not, not in this interview, but I'm talking about when I release albums mm-hmm. <affirmative>, a lot of times all of the articles are about my disability and it's like, let's just talk about the music for a little bit, you know? Right. Um, so you're kind of addressed in a different way I guess, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 1 00:29:51 Yeah. But, but I, I do agree that it is true. Right. It's one thing to, for you to say, well I'm not going to even perform at a place that won't be accessible or won't try to, you know, move towards being accessible. But I do think that there's a whole different thing about when people decide, well I can get on the stage, so why should I boycott that? Yeah. You know, um, exactly. And it does say a lot. I think that it, it changes the terrain significantly if people really start thinking above themselves and thinking for the whole and say, yeah, this is not just about, you know, a person or a select few, this is about the whole. Right. Usually if you look back with the disability changes, any, almost all changes that have been done, I mean you can, and you can start with curb cuts and elevators that were good for someone with a disability have been good for the whole. So I, I really think it's gonna take a lot of people saying, look, we're just, this is just gonna have to be the norm where you start changing, you know, how your venue is instead of the exception.
Speaker 3 00:31:08 Exactly. Like I think that's why bigger artists taking that on for themselves would be so impactful. Cuz I bet you'd only need like 20 or 30 big names to be like, this is the new standard, you know? Yeah. Like, yeah. Um, and it takes a lot longer if it's just me out there slogging by myself. I mean, I'm not the only one. Like, that's what's been great about ramped, um, recording artists and music professionals with disabilities that I helped to found, um, last year is because I, you realize there are a lot more people out there than I knew doing the same stuff I do. But we just haven't been well publicized so we don't know each other, you know. Yeah. We're getting to know each other now.
Speaker 1 00:31:49 So talk a little bit about Ramped, um, you, you started that and are you the vice president now or how's that wor What is, tell us all a little about that.
Speaker 3 00:31:59 Yeah, no, that's cool. Um, so, uh, during the pandemic there were an increasing number of panel discussions by some big art organizations like the National Endowment for the Arts and stuff. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> about accessibility in the arts. And I kept being on these panels with somebody named <unk>, um, L a C H I. And she's a black e d m artist who's also blind from New York City. Cool. And she, we got to know each other kind of like by being on all these panels. And then one of the days she called and said, you know, I wanna start an organization called Ramped Recording Artists and Music Professionals with disabilities that would um, kind of help support professional artists. Like not just people who like to play for fun, but people who are trying to make a living doing music and like have that be their main career because I don't think there's resources for them, which I already, it's funny cuz I had always thought that, but I was like, well who the heck?
Speaker 3 00:32:54 I don't know, it's time to start that. But then she asked if I would co-found it and I agreed. And so I was vice president for the first like 18 months and now I'm just, um, you know, a co-founder slash I go to all the meetings and stuff like that. But, um, cuz I've been working on some larger behind the scenes projects. Um, yeah. But it's such a cool thing. There's, um, you know, we decided we would make a website that has a database. It's just R ampd.org org. There's a database now so you can search. We have like 60 professional disabled artists on there right now, and we're gonna grow every year, I think. Um, but like if you are looking to work with, for example, a disabled sound engineer or a disabled, um, PR person or a disabled, you know, composer or songwriter, you want a Latin artist who is, you know, we have so many different, like, we have like techno, we have all sorts of, like, there's lots and lots and lots of different genres represented.
Speaker 3 00:33:55 Um, you can just go and actually read about them and listen to their music and then contact them to hire them. Because the biggest thing we heard is that like, you know, we kept getting asked to do all these events and we kept saying people need to hire more disabled artists. And a lot of people would say, well, we don't know anyone but you. And it's like, well there's definitely more of us out there <laugh>. So like this is, this is a way to kind of be like, look, you go find them and then hire them and then like get to know them and get familiar with their, your, their music. So if anyone's interested in kind of like seeing who's out there, um, RAMP is, it's not everybody in the world with the disability who is performing, but it is certainly a big chunk of active performing artists and stuff.
Speaker 1 00:34:43 That's really cool. I had, and when I read about that, I had no idea they existed. So that is really cool
Speaker 3 00:34:49 Now. Yeah. It's really fun.
Speaker 1 00:34:50 Yeah. Be advertised here,
Speaker 3 00:34:52 <laugh>. Yay. Yeah. I just actually today had a meeting with someone where I was like, well, I am not available, but here are four people that would be good. Great. And you should go contact them. So that's kind of one of the main points. And then we're doing like, you know, um, advocacy and, and accessibility consulting. Um, so we worked with the Grammys last year and this year, um, to try to make their on screen and off screen stuff more accessible. Um, you know, so we've been doing other stuff too, but the database, um, to me is a very practical way to start, you know, getting some of this equity that we talk about so much, um, being done in a practical way
Speaker 1 00:35:35 As a disability advocate. Are you currently supporting any bills that are going, uh, that are happening right now for people with disabilities?
Speaker 3 00:35:45 Actually, there is one in Minnesota specifically, so it's a state legislator bill, um mm-hmm. <affirmative> that would create a pot of money, um, where small nonprofit arts organizations could apply and use the money specifically for, um, ADA compliance to get up to code. Um, so that, and so I am trying to think, I wish I knew the exact bill number, but, um, Jennifer McEwen is the, the person who is kind of heading that up. Um, and it, it was kind of initiated during Save Our Stages. People were saying, oh, we've got all this extra money, but still nothing's being done about accessibility. So that is one of the reasons if I can find it, I will let you know. Yeah. All right.
Speaker 1 00:36:35 That'd be great. Um, you're doing a talk coming up and a small performance in Minnesota, um, not very far, uh, like Friday, I believe. Can you tell us a little bit about when that's happening?
Speaker 3 00:36:49 Yeah, um, it's a thing called the convocation. Um, Carleton College in Northfield, Minnesota does, um, this talk every Friday. They have a different person come in. Um, and so I'm gonna be there from 10 50 to 1150 in the morning at the Skinner Chapel, um, with, um, at Carlson College. And I'm gonna give a speech about disability culture and then I'm gonna play a few songs at the end. And then I think there's like an open, you know, a chance to say hello or whatever afterwards. Um, and I'm really looking forward to it.
Speaker 1 00:37:25 So do you know, will it be streaming?
Speaker 3 00:37:29 I think they are recording it. I don't think it streams live to the best of my knowledge. Um, but I believe there will be a recording of it available afterwards. Okay. Um, yeah, and I did this one a couple, like maybe three years ago on a slightly different topic mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, at Carleton. So it's a big huge, um, like church type building, you know, there's Skinner Chapel, it's huge. So, um, yeah, if you can make it live, that'd be cool. Otherwise I'm sure it'll be, they'll, I'm pretty sure there's some kind of recording available later.
Speaker 1 00:38:03 What do you like to do when you're not performing
Speaker 3 00:38:08 <laugh>? That's a good question. Um, I love to go on walks. We live, um, in Duluth and I'm obsessed with Lake Superior, so I try to get out and see the lake as many days as I can. Um, I really like to read a lot. We have a pet bunny who is, ah, really cute, but he eats everything in the house, but he's very, he's very cute and so I like being with him and being with family and friends. Um, and then I took up watercolor painting, um, during the pandemic, but I really enjoy that. So I try to do that every now and then. I'm not super talented or anything, but it's a really fun, <laugh> fun relaxation thing and it's kind of fun to, you know, push yourself creatively, I think.
Speaker 1 00:38:54 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, what is coming up next for you as an artist?
Speaker 3 00:39:00 I'm really excited because I am mixing the soundtrack. So, uh, for Macbeth, so in April of 2022, so just about a year ago I was out in New York City. Um, I had recorded and then arranged, um, a pre-recorded score to Macbeth on Broadway with Daniel Craig and Ruth Nega mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so, um, I get to release that music now as a soundtrack and I'm gonna release, like the version I had in my head. You know, a lot of things get changed around for a live show. Right. Um, and they're not all my decisions. So like this is the version that when I made the music originally, um, what I wanted to hear and I'm really excited to release it. There's some other Minnesota artists on there playing, um, instruments. Jeremy Yoga, soccers on guitar. Al church is on drums and Dave mailing is on keyboard and sys. And then it was recorded and mixed by Jake Larson in Duluth. So it's gonna be a fun album to release. And that, and then I'm working on a memoir, I've been writing, oh, that's, that's gonna be a while. <laugh>. I, oh my gosh, it's gonna be a while. It's always longer than you think, but, um, but it's been a really good experience to try to learn, uh, you know, the techniques of writing Right. In a more serious way. It's been really fun.
Speaker 1 00:40:20 You must come on and talk about it when you are ready.
Speaker 3 00:40:24 Yeah, I know. I am really hoping. I'm almost, I've done some of the actual chapters and I have the book proposal almost ready to send out, and then when they, hopefully I'll get a publisher after that. But there's an agent who's gonna send it out and hopefully it'll be a good, a good announcement in the future about publication.
Speaker 1 00:40:42 When you're performing, what is your favorite song to perform?
Speaker 3 00:40:46 It's always the most recent song. So there's a song in Macbeth, um, at the very end of the show called Perfect, um, mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I really like playing that one a lot. Um, and then there another one called The Long Way Around is a kind of a more recent tune that's really fun for me to play, but I don't know, it just, it kind of varies. I mean, there's a fiddle tune called Meia. It kind of sounds like the apocalypse. It's a traditional fiddle finished tune, but with the looping pedal it really amps it up. So that's a really fun one to play. I dunno, it changes though, you know, with your mood.
Speaker 1 00:41:23 Yeah. So I just wanna kind of go out on talking a little bit about the whole idea of normalizing disability culture. Can you say a little more about that?
Speaker 3 00:41:39 Yeah. Um, you know, the more disabled artists say meets, and the more I think about disability, um, and our experience and the, the artists that I've gotten to know, it's just really evident, increasingly evident that disability, the music that you make or the art that you paint, or the way that you write, um, if you're disabled, it sh it, you know, it affects how you see the world, right. And how you process things and how you think about things. And so you create art from a different place. Um, not like different, good or bad, just different, right? And so disability culture to me is acknowledging that your life experiences can shape the culture that you create. So disability, instead of always thinking of negative terminology, like, you know, suffering from, or barriers or victims, you know, like that language mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I think disability culture can kind of reclaim the idea that disability makes us creative and adaptable and resilient and like innovative and in a way so that our culture is, and then, you know, we overcome, uh, oppression.
Speaker 3 00:42:53 We, you know, we are thinking about the good of everyone. A lot of our, as you said before, a lot of the things that benefit disability truly benefit everyone. And I think we're all pretty much aware of that. You know, like we're fighting for equality for all people, and so mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, disability culture is just this idea that we don't have to think of disability as like, well, the way I accommodate it is by building a ramp so that I don't get sued. It's like, no, I wanna celebrate the, the contributions of disabled people and I wanna make it possible for that to happen. And so getting on board and becoming more accessible and more inclusive is how you do that.
Speaker 1 00:43:36 You know, not that you never had this, but you don't come off as an <laugh> an angry person to me. And I think having a disability, I mean, let's face it, you go through a lot of rejection, a lot of, um, there's a lot of, you know, prejudice is in regards to not getting a job all the time or not, you know, like you talked about not having a relationship or not maybe being able to get the family you wanted or many, many things even into the medical things like having doctors Oh yeah. Not speak to you as like a real person, <laugh>. Um, how did, how did you escape that? I mean, how did you kind of turn yourself into this fairly positive person?
Speaker 3 00:44:22 You know, I think that there's two things that really have shaped how I process this stuff. Cause I mean, I do, I get angry. I mean, I think we all get frustrated with where we're, where society is at more than anything. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, and how far behind it feels, you know, and how we're always pushing uphill. And that gets really old, but there's two, two or three things. But the, the first thing is that I really do believe that disability simply highlights what's already universal. So like, if I'm fighting for this, it might look like I'm fighting just for disabled people, but in reality, like I just know that the world will be better when we do this stuff for everyone. And so it's like, let's just keep going, I guess. You know, like we just gotta do it cuz it's, it's actually just the best course of action no matter what.
Speaker 3 00:45:13 And, and then the other thing is that, you know, disability, um, progress that we can make really will help the next generation. Like, I wanna live in a world where people who are disabled, kids that are disabled, don't have to do all the stuff that I do just to book a gig. You know what I mean? Like Right. They want, I want it to be better for them. And that's a motivating factor for me. And then the last thing is, you know, I'm a spiritual person and so I just think that like ultimately, you know, we're here to learn how to love better and it's one like, you know, in the Bible and it's, I don't exclusively read just the Bible, like I've read a lot of different texts, but like the thing that stands out is like, it's easy to love people who are kind to you, but the true test of love is like, how do you act when people aren't kind to you?
Speaker 3 00:46:04 Because that's actually like, I mean, there's this verse in the Bible about like, you know, even the text collectors are nice to the people who are nice to them, basically. Like anyone can be nice to someone who's nice to them. A true test of character is like, how do you, how do you act when the chips are down and when people, when things aren't going your way? And I'm not, uh, you know, a saint, like, I certainly don't always do a good job of that, but I think overall it's a motivating thing for me to try to learn like, you know, how to make progress. And I think we'll get there faster if we can try to maintain our optimism and our sense of joy. Because who, like, would you wanna work with somebody who is super crabby? You know what I mean? Like Yeah. I don't, it's just like logically I think it makes sense and, and spiritually it makes sense to me to just really try to be the change in a way, even when it's not easy because it's actually the most important when it's not easy to do that.
Speaker 1 00:47:01 We're gonna leave with this song called, um, song called Breathe You Are Alive. I really liked this song and actually it was really cool. And I think you did this with your husband Paul, right?
Speaker 3 00:47:15 Yeah, I did. That's so fun
Speaker 1 00:47:17 Out. How did that, how did that come about
Speaker 3 00:47:21 <laugh>? That was totally spontaneous. The recording engineer, you know, I was doing the poem and he is like, you know what? I think Paul should read part of it. And we're like, oh, that's a cool idea. So we did it. And I like it. It turned out really fun.
Speaker 1 00:47:33 Yeah. He, you both did a very good job. I really, I really enjoyed that <laugh>. Can you talk a little bit about where that came from?
Speaker 3 00:47:42 Yeah. That, um, poem is something I wrote kind of at a point when I was feeling stressed out too thin and just kind of realizing that, you know, you can take time to just breathe and be present. And that ultimately that's again, it's like that's kind of ultimately what matters, right? Is being present, right. So, um, yeah. And it was really cool to be able to record that with Paul
Speaker 1 00:48:09 Galen, I really appreciate you coming on and good luck with your future stuff and thank you so much for taking the time. I know you are incredibly pulled upon, so, um, I really appreciate you doing this.
Speaker 3 00:48:22 Well, I really appreciate you. I'm so glad this show exists and thank you for all you do and yeah. And I hope to run into you again sometime.
Speaker 1 00:48:31 Great. You've been listening to Disability and Progress. The views expressed on this show are not necessarily those of Cafe I or its board of directors. My name is Sam and I'm the host of this show, Charlene Dolls, my research person, Miguel Vargas, engineered this show. Thank you to Erin, who is my podcaster. We've been speaking with Galen Lee about her advocacy and songwriting. This is K ffi I 90.3 fm, Minneapolis, and k ffi i.org. If you want to hear us, you can hear us on our podcasts. This show will be archived for two weeks. And if you wanna be on my email list, you can email me at disability and progress sam jasmine.com. Thanks so much for listening.
Speaker 4 00:49:15 Hey.
