Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:05 Hi, this is Sam Jasmine from disability and progress. I'm on vacation, but we'll be back the first week in September to bring you all new, great episodes from disability and progress. Meanwhile, let's take a listen to a podcast from family tree clinic. It's on dating during the pandemic as a deaf queer person in this special talk episode, KFA fresh air community radio 90.3 FM welcomes, cookie TK, James Paul and Anna, to be in conversation with family tree clinic to offer sex and relationship advice, they will address various issues about sexuality navigating intimacy. First steps into queer dating, dating out of your comfort zone and disclosure of death identity. During pandemic dating, our stories are the most powerful tools we have for our healing space to support each other. While these tops are especially targeted to LGBTQ plus deaf communities, they will apply to a wide range of communities. This segment was made possible in part by the Minnesota department of health and was featured during KPI's 2021 pride program.
Speaker 1 00:01:22 Oh, and welcome. Thank you everyone for joining us this evening. I'm so excited. My name is Bethany Gaiman pronouns. Are she her hers? This is my sign name and I work at family tree clinic as the deaf deaf blind hard of hearing services director. And I'm here with a few folks this evening. They'll all introduce themselves soon. And then we'll talk about what family tree clinic can do for you. And he's going to explain what this conversation is about. Hello, my name is Heath and I work at the family tree clinic as a deaf, deaf, blind, and hard of hearing community health advocate. And I am excited to be a part of this event. Thank you, Heath. I'm going to let our panelists here, introduce themselves, and then I'll talk about what we're here for. I'm going to let the first person go, who is next to me? James Paul. Hello everyone. I am James Paul Belden. I am 24 years old. I live in Minneapolis, my pronouns. Are he him? His thank you so much, James Paul, next TK. Hello. My name is TK Malhotra. I'm from south Minneapolis. I'm 36 years old. My pronouns are Mrs. She and hers. Her thank you, TK cookie. You're up?
Speaker 1 00:02:56 Hello, everyone. I'm cookie brand. Um, my pronouns are she and her, and I'm really excited to be with you this evening. I'm looking forward to the conversation saying me too. Thank you, Anna.
Speaker 2 00:03:12 Hi, my name is Anna Duda. I, uh, my pronouns are she her hers and 47 and I live in St. Paul.
Speaker 1 00:03:24 Awesome. Thank you all for introducing yourselves. Very exciting. So family tree clinic is a queer friendly, deaf, deaf, blind, hard of hearing the friendly sexual health clinic in St. Paul soon to be in Minneapolis. And we provide a variety of services to the community here in Minnesota, Iowa, South Dakota, and North Dakota. We provide hormone care sexual healthcare, and we also provide sexual education. I'm going to let Keith explain a little bit about why we're here tonight. Thank you, Bethany. I'm excited to introduce this event because our topic of discussion is deaf queer experiences in dating, which holds its own unique experiences and challenges. Focusing on the unique experiences of the deaf queer community. We're going to be touching on topics such as dating online and dating during the time of COVID.
Speaker 1 00:04:25 We are excited for your stories and experiences about dating as a member of the deaf queer community. Yeah, first of all, we want to say thank you to KFH AI or local radio station here, that fresh air community radio. Um, thank you to cafe for providing this much needed opportunity to have this conversation about the barriers that we face. So thank you so much. TK, cookie, James, Paul, and Anna for vulnerably sharing your stories. It's an honor to be here and listen to your journey and we value that. Thank you. So now Heath and I are going to take a step back and let you four have a conversation based on a question and answer format and James Paul, take it away. Thank you so much. Have a great night.
Speaker 1 00:05:31 Hello everyone. This is James Paul. You really ready to get into it? Dating how we do it? Yes. I know that COVID has really made an impact on all of us in this changed our life in so many ways, including how we date. So there's lots of new challenges and barriers that we face because of COVID. Well, I did. And previous, before I was dating, there have been challenges. And one particular challenge during COVID is masks. As we all know, deaf people really rely on St. A person's face for facial expressions, as well as their mouths for lip reading the masks have been a big issue.
Speaker 1 00:06:18 Yeah, I totally agree. The mass thing has been a challenge, but for me, my challenge, I think has been more difficult than most. I feel I have two children and their father is dating someone else. So I have to take into consideration my kids visiting and of course with them and their household children. And also I work as a school counselor. So, which means I have to take into consideration everyone in that environment as well. Not only me, but everyone I engage with in the workplace and who they engage with. So it's been an even more complex challenge for me. Yeah. So your options have been limited, right? Seriously limited, Anna. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:07:11 Yeah. I wanted to follow Cookie's comment because, um, you know, I, I used to have a partner and my partner has, has passed away and I've been going through the grieving process around that for years then I was finally at the point where I was almost ready to start dating again when COVID hit. And so I had to put that all on hold, uh, in part, because I had to consider my clients. Um, I, I work as a PCA, meaning I provide services and assistance to help deaf folks or excuse me, disabled folks live in the community. And both of my clients are immunocompromised, which puts them in an increased risk of infection. So I really had to strictly isolate in order to protect them.
Speaker 1 00:08:05 Oh, thank you for sharing shows, you really value your clients, but it also means it's hard for you limits how much you can go out. I think now it's hard because of spacial considerations, we, as deaf people are typically more physically demonstrative, we hug and now with social distancing, we just can't. Yeah. And I, for me, having gone to a deaf school where kids come from all over the place to attend, it's a cultural norm to date folks from out of state. So we're flying all over to visit partners. I'm flying a friend and merit to visit someone in Texas or visit someone in Maryland. But we can't know, we can't get on a plane. So it really, really limits our options to connect virtually, which is not as fun. That's true. So once again, how has COVID impacted dating for you?
Speaker 2 00:09:03 Well, as I already mentioned, uh, COVID meant that I had to pretty much just put dating on hold. So that's obviously the biggest impact for me, but I'm sure others have experienced other things. And so I'm curious to hear about that.
Speaker 1 00:09:20 And I have a follow-up question for you. Like, how do you feel about that having to put your dating life on hold,
Speaker 2 00:09:31 You know, a little bit depressing and I already struggled with depression and isolation, so it definitely didn't help. Um, yeah, so it's, it's been tough, especially because, you know, I'm a person who really values physical contact, the ability to touch and hug. Other people is just really important to me and not being able to touch anyone for a whole year. Even my mom, not being able to give my mom a hug for a whole year. It's really tough. And now I'm vaccinated and starting to gather with other people in person I'm starting to hug other people, but honestly, you know, living this way with so much fear and paranoia for a whole year has really left its mark. And I almost have to unlearn that so I can relearn how to integrate back into society
Speaker 1 00:10:33 And prepare for a different time. Again, cookie one thing for me, um, because I work with children, the situation is I think just a bit more complex. I really am solely dependent on and putting my trust in others who you have been around, are you getting tested regularly? I get tested every two weeks for work. Of course. I mean, it's not required, but they've suggested it. So I'm like, sure, absolutely I'll get tested every two weeks. But when it comes to dating you, don't what you need to do. Are you getting tested regularly? That's where for me, it's like, I expect you to be on your game and do the things that you need to do if you want to date me. So that's one of those things that I, that really have forced me to say, it's not only me, but also I work with children because I work with about 120 kids. And you're talking about from the age of three to 21. So there are so many different layers to this that really impact my life and not only dating, but just life in general. So that's where for me, it's been a little bit of a challenge during this whole pandemic.
Speaker 1 00:11:57 I think that it's harder for people who live alone, my husband and I live together. So we have that support system, but I can't imagine individuals who live alone and are going through such a challenging time. I always like to check in with my husband and at the same time, I make sure to check in with friends to be sure that all is well with them. Especially when going through such challenging times. It's so important to have that support system. We are going through this pandemic together and we are getting through these hard times together, a cookie, if I can add to that, uh, really you're right. TK. Um, I'm an extroverted person. I mean, that's my personality type. I like to get out about town, hit the streets and mingle. That's really how I cope with everyday life challenges. It's kind of always been who I am, but now I have to take a step back.
Speaker 1 00:12:58 I can call her and want to say, Hey, you coming over, let's go out. Not to really reconsider everything. And that has been a huge challenge for me. I just wanted to add that to your point, James Paul. Yeah, I do have, um, you know, pretty serious mental health issues that I'm trying to navigate. Um, so thinking about dating and then my own confidence level, which ebbs and flows that makes it really hard to want to go out and being, being around people. And then thinking about trying to get mental health services. It's so challenging during COVID everybody's booked appointments are full plus thinking about getting a provider that is aligned with my needs and my philosophies, you know, it's, uh, not having those professional level deep conversations. I have friends and family. Yes. But I'm not seeing them regularly. They've got their own stuff going on and COVID, COVID-19 impacting their own mental health. And so that means I can't depend on them all the time. We're trying our best to support each other, but it's different. And so that motivation to be out and dating it's dwindled. I don't have that confidence that I used to, or that desire to go out or even thinking about being out and meeting strangers. I'm just not there. Yeah. And so mental health services have been impacted by COVID there's layers and it's cyclical for sure.
Speaker 1 00:14:31 That's really true.
Speaker 2 00:14:42 So your comments about meeting people kind of lead to the next question, if you all use dating apps, how do you approach as a deaf person, both in the app itself and then, you know, maybe meeting people in person, I'm curious, what what's y'all's approach to that? How do you manage that?
Speaker 1 00:15:13 Yeah, I do use Grindr. It's an app and it's typically for men who identify as gay to meet other men, um, it can be used for hookups, but some people use it for dating and even for serious relationship, there's really a whole bunch of reasons why people would go on it. Um, but no, I got the app downloaded, um, using it, but, you know, I was remissed to put my identity out there for everybody to see that I am deaf and that I use ASL to communicate. It's just something to think about. Like, should I put that on there as a disclaimer? Or can I just stand alone based on my appearance, make a connection with folks and then later let them know that I'm deaf. Um, yeah, but it's, it's definitely just a challenge to think about what approach I want to take after thinking about it for awhile.
Speaker 1 00:16:10 Well, I guess also, I just want to mention that my coming out story was kind of slow. I had a fear of everybody knowing my business and I was protective of myself and my privacy. Um, I just wasn't sure if I wanted the whole deaf community to know, because once one person knew everybody was gonna know. So I just wasn't sure if I was gonna put that I was deaf on Grindr, it was a challenge for me, for sure. Eventually I did decide to disclose that I have it in my bio that I'm deaf and I was actually really surprised because folks will contact me and say, Hey, I know some sign language. So that's been really cool. It's a great opportunity. Um, and like I said was really surprising. So, you know, you got options.
Speaker 1 00:17:01 I can cookie. So yes, apps dating apps. I have used them. And it's really interesting because I've always given cause to whether I was going to identify as definite and what to put in my bio. And I've used several dating apps in the past now just about one or two that I use. And now I'm using this one, her, her, which is a lesbian focused or lesbian centered in terms of dating opportunities. Um, and it's really interesting because again, I've always paused whether or not wanting to put down I was deaf because let's be real deaf. People are stigmatized. So I've always felt like, Hmm, I prefer not to put down I'm deaf and not to identify that in any of my bio blurbs, because I don't want people to automatically think they know who I am. You don't know me. You don't know who I am.
Speaker 1 00:18:06 You know nothing about me. You don't know whether I like music, whether I enjoy dancing. There are so many things you don't know, but you make assumptions. So I don't put a damn, I put nothing about whether I'm deaf or not. I put nothing here. And then if I meet someone and we're vibing with texts, then we're going back and forth. When I meet them in person, that's when I take the time to inform them that I'm an ASL user. I can speak for myself, but it is not my preferred mode of communication. It is not, I would prefer to use ASL. And I emphasize those, those types of things when we meet. And that has been interesting too, because I also incur various responses to that. Some people are like, oh, no, not interested. And I'm like, okay, great. You know, your boundaries, you don't want to learn ASL, keep it moving.
Speaker 1 00:19:02 You know, some are willing. It's like a by Felicia and you know, that's what has happened. You meet several pairing people on the app, so it's their choice. And then there are others who are willing and some are not. So once I throw it out there, kind of get a feel from them. Um, and, and we kind of get to figure it out and figure things out. The person I'm dating now said they were willing to learn ASL. And I feel really fortunate about that. I feel really happy that made me, I was like, oh, we can vibe more and see where this takes us because yeah, I'm a cool person. But again, you don't get that answer from everyone. It varies.
Speaker 1 00:19:48 Well, I used Tinder and I tried different apps. It was pretty interesting. I actually met my husband through Tinder and I try to keep it real. I feel like keeping it real and upfront. We're all saving time by reducing the number of questions that we have to have. I did include that I'm deaf and trans. I have nothing to hide. So I just included it all. I know some folks who have some level of trepidation about sharing everything, especially because the deaf community is so small or maybe they're concerned about friends and family or friends finding out for me, I just go ahead and include everything. I mean, you only live once,
Speaker 2 00:20:41 You know, TK, that really brings up a good question for me as a trans woman, the topic of disclosure, it, it always comes up and deciding when to let someone know that I'm deaf or I'm trans or, you know, any number of pieces of my identity. You know, I think that everyone has to make their own decision respecting their own boundaries about when they wanted to close things like that. And part of the reason why I'm unsure about using dating apps is because I'm a little bit uncomfortable with that very question, you know, like, but deaf communities, small, the trans community is small and finding a deaf person willing to date someone who is trans. I mean, it's, it's challenging with hearing people to, there, there can be judgment around transness and, and deafness. And so I've always felt uneasy with the idea of using a dating app. So, um, I'm curious about your experiences with that TK, if you're willing to share.
Speaker 1 00:22:14 Yeah, sure. For us as Def trans women, as you mentioned before, especially as the deaf community is such a small world, there are not many deaf trans stories being shared out there. So there's less opportunity for us to learn from and support each other. So this platform is a great opportunity now for us to start sharing our stories and going back to the dating apps, I just put it out there because as I said before, you only live once.
Speaker 2 00:22:55 And I guess that, that means that you're able to, if someone isn't interested in you, you're fine with that. And then they can just move along and not contact you. Right. Absolutely. Sure, sure. James Paul, you had to come, do you wanted to add,
Speaker 1 00:23:16 Yeah, I wanted to add something just that hesitancy to disclose my deafness on Grindr. Um, because the platform itself, I don't know, it's disability friendly. And so I'm sure it's that same parallel wondering, even though it's an app that's quote unquote for gay folks, it might not be trans friendly. It might not be accessible for all folks. There's still transphobia that shows up in an app like Grindr. So yeah, it really just makes me think about how apps really or platforms should be more equitable. I know there's a couple other apps that are less popular, but their goal is to provide a more equitable, safe space that values diverse identities, inclusive of trans people. I can't remember the app's name right now, but yeah, just something to think about. But interestingly, Facebook, more and more, uh, there's groups forming deaf gay group, deaf queer group, where we could meet other folks online.
Speaker 1 00:24:34 So I'm starting to see that more often I'm adding Facebook friends from other countries, um, having conversations, starting to date. And it's just, it's so interesting to think about dating people from another country. I had, somebody asked me if I wanted to be their boyfriend. I was like, I'm not ready. So it was just really interesting to think about kind of other cultural practices. Some are more urgent to get in relationships and some aren't yeah, very fascinating experience. So yeah, just another online dating experiences to recognize it doesn't even have to be through an app it's happening on Facebook and other social media platforms. Right now we're meeting folks from all over the country now like Instagram to now speaking of dating apps, I remember that we used to use Craigslist back at that time and that we included all of the typical bio kind of ad information where folks would include whether they were straight trans by gay. Now it's not as prevalent, especially with the rise of dating apps.
Speaker 1 00:25:46 So I think one thing I appreciate appreciate about that app, I spoke of her. Um, again, remember I said, it's kind of focused on lesbian dating, but I love that there are a diverse group of identities that are represented there. So you see so many people in our community show up, which I think is really nice. I didn't meet my, um, my former partner who was transgender on there. I didn't meet meet them on that app, but it is really cool to see the range of identities that are included in the app now. So that leads us to our next question. What do you wish people in general knew about dating a deaf queer person?
Speaker 1 00:26:35 We don't bite. Well, I asked my husband what they thought it would be like being with a deaf person. If he was excited thinking I was going to be a quiet person, but in reality, I'm pretty loud. I am not a quiet person at all. I am pretty loud. Has so feel you on that. I'm a lab for me. If I could just add in here, I love music and I mean, turn it up, pump it up. I need to feel it. I need to know that that vibe is happening. Quiet. Not at all. There's nothing quiet about me. And I have two daughters and they are not quiet either. So I totally get it. But one thing I also want to add that I wish people knew was that it really requires a lot of patience. Yes. One to learn, sign language. You want to navigate communication. Patience and patience is simple. Either you got it or you don't and if not, keep it moving deuces it's, it's that thing it requires. Patience is a must point blank period. Anna, I saw your HANA.
Speaker 2 00:28:11 Yeah. I like to add that. It doesn't really matter if the deaf person can talk or with breed or has even some residual hearing, like maybe they could understand their hearing partner. If the surrounding was quiet work, they put in a lot of effort, lip reading. If I let you know that I'm deaf and I communicate to sign language honor, that don't, don't put the burden of communication solely on the deaf person's shoulders. That's just, it's, it's transposing the unfair dynamics of the outside world onto your individual relationship, you know? And it just reinforces the oppression that we so often experience.
Speaker 2 00:29:06 You know, in my previous relationship, we were together for 20 years and my partner was hearing and never learned sign language. So I carried the responsibility, the weight of figuring out our communication on my own. And it was tough. I grew up being taught to speak and lip read and not to sign. And I was without other deaf peers when I was in school. And so I expected to bear that responsibility myself. But now that my partner is gone, I'm realizing I am not willing to repeat that dynamic again, in my future relationships, I'd like to someone who's deaf or hearing person who knows some basic sign language, they don't have to be fluent. You know, I know that often many hearing people might be clueless about deafness or sign language at first, but they need to be willing to learn.
Speaker 1 00:30:03 Yeah. That really makes me think about how deaf queer people really have beautiful souls. Yeah. So if you're dating a deaf queer person recognize there's a lot of depth there. Yeah, yeah. You're right. Yeah. I know. I just said, I mean, to have a beautiful soul, but what does that really mean? It's a simple statement to have a beautiful soul, but it means you're, if you're dating a deaf queer person, don't expect it to be simple is a journey. It's an adventure. And oftentimes people don't realize that there is diversity within the deaf community. Like for me, I'm so independent. I live alone downtown. Um, I'm a person who just really loves that independence. I love adventures going out on my own. You know, I'm like I said, I'm living alone downtown, and that's good for me. That works for me. Just do it. That's right.
Speaker 2 00:31:21 Yeah. You know, every relationship is unique. Every relationship is different. And I need to honor the fact that my future relationships aren't going to be the same as my past relationships. You know, I still love most of my exes, most of them, but we broke up because for whatever reason, we couldn't continue that relationship. But you know, my love for them is different. Each person is an individual and I have an individual relationship with each of them.
Speaker 1 00:32:08 Yeah. And that makes me think about something else. Just how small the deaf community is. So often we'll be in a relationship with someone and that person has been in a relationship with one of our exes or knows a friend it's just a interconnected web. And it's so easy to make assumptions about people or say, oh, you know, that person usually does this, this and this. And we start to just stereotype folks based on that gossip without really realizing that we all have individual connections that are unique and it's not something that it can just get passed down. So just to remember, like each relationship you're in is a unique experience. Uh, but I actually do have a follow-up question. So what would you recommend or what advice would you give to someone who is wanting to, or interested in dating a deaf queer person?
Speaker 1 00:33:14 I'm trying to think here. Yeah. Or maybe if, you know, thinking about a hearing person, a person who can hear who is interested in a deaf person, but doesn't really know how to get there or how to approach the deaf person. What advice would you give up? Well, uh, about communication, you know, they can learn how to write or just have patience while the person that they're dating learns ASL. The important thing is making that effort to communicate. I think one good starting place is seeing folks using their smartphones, right. Messages back and forth. That's a good way to start breaking the ice. Yeah. And usually bars have good wifi. So honestly you can download an app that has sign language in it right there on the spot. How do you sign cute? How do you sign hot? How do you sign sexy? You know, that information is readily available. If you got the internet, so learn some signs and you can make a quick connection with a deaf queer person. And then you can learn more sign language as you go, or you can always write back and forth on paper. You can also use body language that really, really shows a lot. You don't even need to use words. Actions often speak louder than words,
Speaker 2 00:34:39 You know? Yeah. And I'll add I'm, I'm kind of joking, but I'm not, I can't move sex without talking silent sex is hot.
Speaker 1 00:34:47 I agree for sure. Sex is the best and we all need that. I have to.
Speaker 2 00:34:59 Yeah. And I'll add, and maybe you agree that I think one of the main things for some successful communication is an open mind, you know, try different things, whatever works great. Many times within the deaf community are our expectations for hearing people can be though, because we have just struggled to communicate with hearing folks. So really any ways that hearing folks invest their energy or effort in communicating with us on our terms,
Speaker 1 00:35:36 We really that, well also like cookie said, patients, I encourage patients for anyone wanting to date deaf, transgender, or queer folks just have patience with us.
Speaker 2 00:35:54 Yeah. And don't assume that just because we're deaf, we don't do something like cookie mentioned. She loves music. I love music and I love, well, I mean, maybe I'm not a great dancer, but I love moving my body to the music. You know, I love reading I've, I've traveled all over the place, so really rarely do we limit ourselves
Speaker 1 00:36:26 Well onto another question. Do you see similarities between conversations about getting vaccinated and STI screenings? What do you all think? Yeah. I noticed a question that comes up in dating apps. Are you clean? And that can really mean two different things. Like, do you have an STI girly? Uh, or do you have COVID so yeah, kind of two different things. So you'd have to follow up and clarify, um, you know, are you talking about how have I been vaccinated or have I been taking a test recently for sure. That is important cookie. Yeah. I want to talk a little bit about the vaccine and the vaccination process as a black deaf person and a perspective from my lens, not everyone agrees with the vaccine, you know, the history of this country, a long standing history of African-Americans being discriminated against and use use kind of as lab rats tested on.
Speaker 2 00:37:41 Oh yeah. It looks like you froze cookie. What were you saying?
Speaker 1 00:37:45 This is better. Okay. Yeah. Not everyone agrees with the vaccine, just because of the lived experience of black people in this United States and the discrimination that they've experienced, um, especially around the, their health and just the concept of consent. I mean, so you really have to take that into consideration. Is the vaccine important? Yes, but we think before we do it because of the history in this country and what we've experienced being tested on, it has left many black people with trauma. So is it important? Yes. But we also think about other factors that play into it as well. For me. Yeah, sure. I got vaccinated, but not my children, not yet. And they haven't even provided it to them yet. So, so that also then adds a layer of being extra careful about who I socialize with, like engaged with, because my kids are not vaccinated right now. So can I date you? And you haven't got your vaccination. There's just so many more layers that really are important to take into consideration as I navigate through it all. Yeah. So
Speaker 2 00:39:03 I think this is sort of a related topic. Say you have been, you know, vaccinated, you've gotten that. Why is it easier to share that information around your COVID status? Whether or not you've had it or been vaccinated, um, versus sharing information around, you know, your results of your STI screening, maybe. Why is it hard to share that I'm HIV positive or HIV negative? Why do you think there's such a difference between those things? Yeah. James Paul,
Speaker 1 00:39:35 Well, for so many years, uh, if you caught HIV, it was just so heavily stigmatized similar with other STI. Yes. But not quite as much. Um, so that brings up embarrassment, shame that people caught HIV, you know, and they start kind of self-blaming or say, oh, I, I could have avoided it. I could have been something I did, which is a natural thought to come up. But really, you know, the concept of getting an STI yeah. With it being so stigmatized, we punish ourselves and saying, oh, I shouldn't have hooked up. I made the wrong decision. There was so many of those emotions that get involved. And when we think about disclosing it or saying, you know, I got a positive test result now comparing that to COVID. I mean, COVID, you look on social media, uh, and people are just putting their status out there. You see pictures of everybody getting their vaccine, getting tests, results posting every day, it's become a part of our pop culture. It's almost become something that's, you know, cool people boast about it. And so, I mean, yeah, for good reason, but we're seeing that and we're seeing everybody being like, look at me, you know, get tested, get the vaccine. And it is something to feel good about for sure. Um, COVID negative. Um, but yeah, it's just something that I've noticed.
Speaker 1 00:41:19 I think sometimes it's hard for some people to actually start these conversations about STI HIV testing. Some people may not be comfortable to share this kind of information. They may be comfortable, may be comfortable wondering, you know, w why do you want to know that if you ask while they may be understanding the safety concern, it's still an uncomfortable area for them, not all persons will respond the same. And like JP James Paul mentioned there's heightened awareness again with COVID for me, it's not hard to reveal that I'm clean. I've already had an HIV test and keeping in mind that some people may not feel comfortable to share.
Speaker 2 00:42:09 So it varies. No, I think because of the stigma around STI, as it can be really tough or embarrassing, but we have to remember if, if we want to be sexual in whatever way with other people, this, this kind of conversation and communication is really necessary for informed consent. You know, like if I know you are HIV positive, that will affect my decision about how I want to engage with you. And, you know, I will likely want to continue seeing you, but I need to know, so I can protect my, my negative status. And, you know, also maybe you have HIV, but you're taking medication and your viral load is undetectable. And that means that you can't transmit HIV to other people.
Speaker 2 00:43:28 You know, that's, that's a pretty new concept for me. And if you're HIV is undetectable and you, you can't transmit it well, I mean, that changes the conversation for me, you know, but it HIV for my generation, even though I'm, I'm 47, I grew up in the eighties and nineties. And that time was really traumatizing for gay folks. What, with the government refusing to provide help. And just so many people dying that created some deep trauma. And it doesn't matter that now it's a lot safer than it was before because that trauma and those memories and experiences, they, they influence how people respond. Now,
Speaker 1 00:44:44 Paul, yeah. To just follow up on that, um, just on historical deep trauma with S T I's, um, it's interesting though, because we're not really having formal medicalized or scientific conversations about sci, not in educational settings, it's all rumors and gossip folks. Aren't getting clear answers. For example, if you take a medication, how does it affect your body? You know, if you have an STI, what does it look like? What does it feel like? How do you respond to that? Interestingly with COVID, we're having in-depth medicalized and scientific conversations about breathing fevers. Oh, I can't smell something. I can't taste something. I mean, the conversations are rich and at a scientific level because we're getting these facts, the deaf community is talking. And so it's so interesting how easy it is for us to have these conversations and get the information about why we're sick and what to do about it. You know, if you compare that to STI, there's just, there's not conversations of that level happening from the eighties. And even before the eighties. So, you know, still people are just not getting accurate information about S T eyes, you know, and it makes sense that people aren't then willing to disclose their status for sure.
Speaker 1 00:46:20 And it is about that access. Agreed. Also, if I can add another thing is again, sex itself is stigmatized and it has been so since the beginning of time, for very various reasons, I mean, come on everyone. It is part of the life. It is part of our everyday conduct. If you think about Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right? So sex is at this basic layer with the needs for life, right? The survival of things, food, um, we really just have to be open and take the stigma off of it. It is part of who we are as part of our everyday fiber of being. So for me, I just agree with your comments. We really need to take the taboo layer label off of sex. This country has always been that way, but thinking sex is only required for reproduction. No, come on. Really. It is part of who we are. We have human needs and it is part of survival, just like food, just like and everything else. We need everything really. I mean, you know what I mean? I agree with you.
Speaker 2 00:47:47 Yeah. You know, I agree with the caveat that there are some people who are ACE, meaning asexual, they don't experience sexual attraction. And that's a different discussion. That's a smaller group of people, but folks who are ACE exist, but yes, for most people, most people experience sexual attraction as an important part of their daily life and sexual desire and expression is totally normal. You know, being physical with one, another being sexually active, that that's an important part of humanity and normal. Yes. And I think that our culture doesn't invest enough energy in teaching young people about how bodies work, you know, what to expect, what can happen, what are the risks? What are the benefits, et cetera. There's just sort of this attitude in our culture of, oh, just ignore it. If we don't talk about it, it won't happen. And, and that's really, that's really dangerous because when young people don't have enough information, then something like informed consent just isn't possible.
Speaker 1 00:49:28 Yeah. And just to follow up with that question, it really makes me think about how we are not investing enough energy into educating our children about sex in general, you know, the act of sex. There's not enough educational exposure in a really there's barely any exposure, uh, to queer day lesbian or transsexual encounters. You know, do people take a different approach with that? Those conversations are just not happening in sex. Ed, it's all heteronormative intercourse, that's it, it's a done deal. There's no conversations about other romantic love. And so yes, having those conversations about different kinds of sex is really valuable.
Speaker 1 00:50:24 And I really hope that, um, or I just hope that the education gets out there because, uh, everyone's journey is unique. And the more we know the better experience that we can have, and even just like knowing what a gay or trans experience is, it means when we meet someone who identifies that way, we already have a, a foundational bit of knowledge. Yes. Very true. So one question, um, that I was thinking of that I want to bring to the table, um, what are some, uh, ideas or advice that you want to give to people who are getting back into the dating game after the pandemic? What advice would you give to them who were kind of starting dating all over again? TK, what you got well before cooking, you had emphasized keeping an open mind and to reinforce what James Paul was just talking about, the importance of mental health, making sure that you are loving yourself and practicing self-care before dating someone else, knowing that we can go through pretty difficult times, such as the COVID pandemic and struggles with mental health.
Speaker 1 00:51:47 We do want to just be sure that we're taking care of ourselves and then starting to date other people. Yeah. I have two things to add to that. Don't be afraid. I know for me, I have such a serious fear of just getting out into the dating scene. Now I used to be able to use COVID as an excuse to stay home, but I can't really use that excuse too much anymore. I got to get, stop that habit. Um, but I also recognize that as my mental health improves with the help of my therapist, that I've been seeing the last two months. Yeah. Lots of hard work, but I'm getting there and I'm making progress and I need to take that first step. So really just recognizing that first step is so crucial and amazing things can come from it. And then the second thing I was going to say, um, drafts, it's gone. What was I gonna say? Uh, when I think of it, I'll follow up. Go for it.
Speaker 2 00:53:00 Yeah. So I would just add, to remember, to give yourself and other folks the benefit of the doubt and, you know, to recognize that this time of COVID and the pandemic has been traumatic for everyone, it doesn't matter if you had COVID or you didn't have COVID or your family was exposed. It it's been a deeply traumatic experience. And it's been really tough. I think also it's important to remember that many of us are nervous about stepping back out into the world because really, you know, again, this time has affected all of us. And so whoever you meet, just whether it's in-person or, you know, you're, you're communicating on a texting app. Those folks are probably, they're probably nervous too.
Speaker 1 00:54:10 And I forgot to also add two things, which I think of extreme importance. The first being love your self, love yourself. Don't get me wrong. I know it's easier said than done. I get it. I totally get it. I've even struggled with it. Myself and therapy has been super beneficial, but you have to love yourself for who you are. I mean, it may be harder to do, but really it is. It is so important that you love yourself before you even consider loving someone else or dating someone else. I think about last year, um, really last year and during this, this entire pandemic for me, I mean, there's so many things that we've all experienced, especially myself. I think about loving yourself and how important it is. I can't stress it enough and I know it's tough, but I think really people need to know that is key.
Speaker 1 00:55:19 Before you move on and dating, it will make a big difference in your dating life and who you meet, who you want to date. So that's important. Love yourself. The second thing is be flexible, please. COVID was tough enough and everyday life is tough enough. We are humans. So you have to be flexible. You got to meet so many different people, just be flexible, being flexible and, and loving yourself. Life is tough as it is. You add our different identities as a queer person, as a deaf person, engaging with society. It's tough. I get it, but be flexible. Give yourself that, that will help navigating through this so much better. Love yourself. Be flexible. That's what I got. Okay. Yeah. I totally agree with everything you said cookie self-love, uh, is important and often you hear people say, oh, it's selfish on our new, I don't want to do that.
Speaker 1 00:56:29 But if you can fill yourself up, then when other people add to that lift, it's just is wonderful. Well, and actually, I remember the second thing I was going to say earlier. Um, you know, you get a lot of advice about meeting a new people, meeting new people. And typically if you meet a deaf person and you're deaf already, you already know that, but recognize that during COVID we have all changed. And so it's an opportunity to recognize if you haven't seen somebody in a few months or a year, or since before the pandemic, you know, look at them as someone with a clean slate. No, that we've all been on a journey right now. We've all done a lot of changing and a lot of growing, but like you talked about James Paul. Yeah. It's also important to remember that people have been pretty deeply impacted by COVID and gone through a lot of changes over this past year.
Speaker 1 00:57:46 Yeah. It looks like it's about time to wrap up. So is Bethany jumping on wow. Listening to your stories this evening, profound, thank you so much for your vulnerability and your wisdom and your life experience. Um, I really do not take that for granted. Um, yeah. Listening to you all share this evening, it just shows all of your hearts are full of compassion and tenderness and yeah. And I love this idea of recognizing each person is just on their own journey. He like, yeah. What are you feeling right now? Well, I've just had so many reactions during this conversation. I've been inspired, excited, and moved to tears sometimes all at once because your experiences are incredibly rich and good. Many people don't realize how diverse we are as a community and how many varied experiences we've had that we're each on our own journeys, your sharing of your stories and experiences are exactly what people out there need to hear.
Speaker 1 00:58:54 They need to see what we do, how we live and that you also named self-love and self-care is incredible. Especially for us in the deaf community. We've experienced so many frustrations and challenges when meeting other people that just loving ourselves is so important. Yeah. And just one thing that you all mentioned that I keep thinking about is to recognize how we approach people. Either if we're just dating or quote unquote, in the process of starting to date someone, which is what we used to say back when we were in middle and high school with, so we're in the process of dating. Yeah. Just approach folks with curiosity like cookie was talking about recognizing different people, have different experiences talking about vaccine hesitancy, that's valid, be curious, engage with people and limit that judgment. You know, and James Paul mentioned it as well. Like yes, if the deaf community is small and we might've known each other for years, but the pandemic isn't over and we are still in the process of changing. So give people the benefit of the doubt, you know, it's a clean slate. So I really look forward to the continued growth and conversation in the deaf community. For sure. Any more last comments here, Anna,
Speaker 2 01:00:21 Just one comment related to the topic of self-love many times it can be, it can feel really hard to do that, but I would just offer the reframe to the idea of practicing. Self-compassion being compassionate with yourself and allowing that even if you feel you can't fully love yourself, perhaps you can practice some self-compassion.
Speaker 1 01:00:58 Yeah. Thank you, Anna. You're exactly right. It's hard, but you don't have to think of it as this big battle. You can think of it as what can I do today to be more compassionate to myself. Yeah. Any other last comments before we wrap up? This is James Paul. Hey, I'm single and ready.
Speaker 2 01:01:23 Yeah. I am also single. I'm ready.
Speaker 1 01:01:28 This is Bethany. Thank you so much. Um, we'll quick do a go around of our names. This is Bethany. Thanks. Thank you. This is James Paul. Thank you so much, TK. Thank you,
Speaker 2 01:01:45 Anna. Thank you,
Speaker 1 01:01:48 Cookie. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. Yeah, definitely have a wonderful rest of your night. Take care and to our audience, please take care of yourselves. Great night.
