Speaker 0 00:00:00 Okay, good evening. Thank you for joining disability and progress, where we give you insights into ideas about and discussions on disability topics. My name is Sam. I'm the host of the show, Charlene dolls, my research woman, but she is out tonight. Feel better Charlene tonight in the studio on before I start, if you want to be on my email list, you may email
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[email protected]. Tonight we are in the studio with an author, Bruce Ariel. Good evening, Bruce. Good evening, Sam. Thank you so much for coming in. It's a beautiful night, Bruce. Um, as an author, his latest book is everyone is a star and what a great name. Um, so Bruce, you are very good. I think you are somebody who's proven, you know, you have a disability and you are pretty successful. Can you talk about, um, the, a little bit about the disability that, um, came along later in life?
Speaker 1 00:01:16 Well, um, I had a car accident, Sam at age 24 and, uh, I had some experience of confused thinking and some nausea and some confused thinking. And, uh, but I didn't actually seek out medical help because I was afraid of being labeled as mentally ill. And, um, so I went nine months before I started treatment, but it became impossible to go on without getting some kind of help. And so I went into a psych ward and they, he made a snap diagnosis and called me schizophrenia. And cause he saw I was delusional. I had had a break, a psychotic break from reality and he saw that and then he diagnosed schizophrenia. I did not mention the car accident. So I went treated for schizophrenia since that time. But um, somewhere along the line, maybe 10 years later, people started coming up to me and saying, now that you're getting better, can't you look back and tell that it was a car accident at the exact time when you changed?
Speaker 1 00:02:27 And I said, well, it seemed to me that I, that next morning I woke up after the car accident, I had some classic brain traumatic brain injury symptoms and I didn't realize it. I was, I was a wild child and I did not want to be a, on any psych ward. And um, so I, uh, refused to get medical help. All my friends tried to convince me of it. Um, they kind of watched me decompensate and finally my parents came and they said, this has got to SAP. Um, you have to go into the hospital and to which I agreed with. And um, so I was on the psych ward and then I went back to my old ways immediately after getting off the psych ward and tried to put the whole experience behind me. And, uh, that didn't work. I was on the psych ward a second time.
Speaker 1 00:03:25 It had a very, uh, comforting psychiatrist. There was kinda the opposite. The first psychiatrist, his name was Dr. Hedlund. And uh, he got me to trust him and I got into law school and was trying to put the whole mental illness thing behind me. I thought, you know, I could do that, but I couldn't. And I lost my concentration, lost my focus and ended up homeless. And then I broke the law and God, I went to a psych ward again. And this time they offered me a choice either go into the mental health system or go to jail. And I said, I want the mental health system. And so I say, I think he made a good choice. The judge said that. And so I went into a psych ward, I mean a mental health halfway house group home. And I had a very astute, very sensitive, very loving, very caring, and also very adept. She was very adept at what she did and she got me accepting my mental illness. It didn't matter what caused it. The fact is I was having problems and she got me started as a writer. And then the rest is just kind of followed from that. Uh, her name was Joan hunger and she's, she's a hero and in my life, um, I still read her at Christmas time, although she's Jewish,
Speaker 0 00:05:00 That's all good. She'll have some holiday to remember you by then. So, so that's kind of how you became a writer. Is there somebody who saw you right and said, Hey, you should do this.
Speaker 1 00:05:12 Well, that's another story. Um, when I was out on the streets, homeless, I, uh, this homeless, this other homeless man was quite a bit older than me. It was, I was in my thirties, early thirties and he wasn't in sixties or seventies. And he stopped me in the library and said, what are you doing with your life? Cause he knew I was homeless. He had seen each other around soup halls and stuff like that. And he goes, what are you doing with your life? And I said, well, I was in law school and he goes really? And I said, yes. And he goes, well, why do you want to do it's your life now? And I started to say something and he goes, she quieted me down and goes here, Richard, on this piece of paper. And so he handed a piece of paper and I wrote, I wanted to be a ranger and he read it and he goes, sheesh, go ahead and do it.
Speaker 1 00:06:07 And that's when I made the decision to be a writer. I'd always considered myself a decent Raider in school, but it wasn't something I wanted to, uh, pursue. It was a pipe dream, something that would never happen. I was going to be a lawyer and I didn't give up that idea for some time. But that psychologist in the halfway house, uh, started me into thinking that, you know, that that was a bigger pipe dream than being a writer, Rena writers, realistic. It's something anybody can do. All you need is a pen and a piece of paper. And, but it's a, it's a, uh, it's a commitment I've had. I had my commitment as a pages day. And um, I've gone with that now since 1986. And so I've been writing some time and I've got about six or seven books on Kendall and three paperbacks.
Speaker 0 00:07:00 Excellent. Well, I'm not sure if anybody can do it. I don't know if I'd want people
Speaker 1 00:07:04 To read my writing. I know you have to take, uh, the after develop a thick skin because you know, the critics are out there. Uh, it's kind of a challenge though. If you can get the critic to say something good about it so much the better, but even if they don't, you have to have thick skin enough to still believe in yourself and go forward. I've had many people, disparaged, varying. I've had many people praise it. I've had both. And so I liked the people that praise it better course. And, and I go with that. So
Speaker 0 00:07:40 Let's talk about your latest book. It's entitled. Everyone's a star. Um, talk about where you got the idea for that story. Where did that come from?
Speaker 1 00:07:49 Well, um, when I was young, we talked about the kids in the suburbs. I was a city kid and we talked about the kids in the suburbs and we said they all have stars in their eyes. And I thought that was a bad thing. Um, but then the older I got, the more I realized being a star is a good thing. And you know, they were getting something out in the suburbs. The ladder people weren't access were not, what's accessible to a lot of people. They just weren't raised that way to think of themselves as star. They were raised to think of themselves as like working class or, you know, knuckling under and being a Christian, going to church. And nobody was really timed to be stars. At least not in my neighborhood or the schools I went to. And then I came up with the idea of why can't everybody be a star because it's kind of fun.
Speaker 1 00:08:50 If you think of yourself as a star, you know, if you think of yourself highly enough to that, you're interesting enough that you have enough. You have a hidden talent, maybe not hidden, maybe it's out in the open, but to think that you have a talent and a, you have a special mission in life. My dad gave me that, that I had a mission in life. Um, but he did not necessarily raise me to be a star. But when he saw, I took off on writing, he, he would throw that comment out there. Maybe you become a star, Bruce. And, uh, so I thought everybody is a star. Everyone is a star. Um, some people have bad luck in, but they rise out from it. I had a car accident, I had bad luck. It was my own fault. But, um, at some point I've started thinking of myself as a star, not in a grandiose kind of Hollywood way, but just as a person that was applying their talents, the best they could in their life and, um, making themselves something beyond just every day.
Speaker 0 00:10:00 I want to go back to a comment that you made when you said, um, in the suburbs, when you saw people and you thought they had stars in their eyes, was that meaning, like you thought that they weren't seeing reality.
Speaker 1 00:10:13 I thought that at the time I thought reality was the city and I wasn't envious. In fact, we kind of ridiculed Terry the truth, but then the older I got, I befriended, some kids got to know some people from the suburbs and they were good people. And I began to see that their parents had given them a nice life and that they should be happy. And then I said, why can't everybody be a stars at all, based on having a lot of money. And I said, no, not really. There's been people that have been stars that were very poor. So I wish that everybody could become a star. And I thought, especially in the environment, I'm in, that's very important. I worked for tasks unlimited and the people have a mental illness and I started, these folks can think of themselves as stars then, uh, that's my mission.
Speaker 0 00:11:13 There are two characters, um, particular ones I'm thinking of in your book, bill and Sarah, um, who are these based on
Speaker 1 00:11:21 Both of them? I really, me, that's the simple answer. Bill is, uh, what I might've become. Uh, he's a lawyer and becomes a judge. I don't know if I would ever meet a judge, but I had ambitions to be a lawyer. And, uh, so bill and have a family. And so bill, uh, bill is a lawyer and, uh, he's kind of like a compassionate, liberal, um, you know, confident. And it has a idea that he's kind of special. Um, and he has, uh, an idol who is another character in the book. We might get to that. Um, uh, but his daughter is, has a metal metals and that's like me too. And she's very rebellious, which I was, he can ask my parents if I was rebellious, he can ask my friends if I was rebellious. Um, so she's rebellious and she's at her, father's throw it like I was. And, uh, she's an satisfied asking a lot of questions, being very hard to live with, which was I was, but in the end, uh, she becomes a star in your own rage. She, she steps out of her mental illness and, uh, comes across to her father as a real daughter. Uh, something that was beyond her when she was in the depths of her delusions. Um, but she steps out of that. At least that part, uh, I don't want to spoil the story,
Speaker 2 00:13:05 But no don't spoils
Speaker 0 00:13:07 Have, um, somebody that bill admires and really puts up on a pedestal. Um, the character Randall Smith, who is he based on and, and why is he getting so much trouble?
Speaker 1 00:13:19 Uh, it's the character of Bob Dylan, my boyhood idol. Um, Dylan doesn't necessarily get in a lot of trouble, but he's not known for being really on the right side of the law. He has quotes where he says, if you live outside the law, you have to be honest. And, um, you know, he's known as kind of a radical, kind of a free spirit, very much a free spirit. And bill in the book has this character named Randall Smith. Now Randall Smith in the book is a blues artist, um, that, uh, has a following and he's black. So it's different. I disguise Dylan A. Little bit. Um, but, uh, he's got the same populous kind of ideas, the same kind of affinity for the downcast, um, uh, champion of the little guy he's, uh, Randall Smith is all of that. And, uh, I believe the idea that everybody is a star is something that Bob Dylan would agree with. I, I think, I think he would.
Speaker 0 00:14:34 What message would you like to deliver to the readers through your story?
Speaker 1 00:14:39 I just want to say that, um, you know, we're all worthwhile people. We all got gifts. Uh, some people get all the recognition in Hollywood and in politics and in, but everybody is a star. Everyone I've ever met along my life. I saw some good in that. Took a big effort on some people's part, but I saw some good and everybody that ever dealt with. And I just imagined that people were the same all over the world and I've traveled and met other people from other countries and people have something good. And, um, I, I looked back at the idea that Christ called the sinners and, uh, did he really think we were, that was the limitation we had. And I said, no, he, he said we committed sins, but I believe Christ even thought we were good people who committed sins and human by nature, uh, by, by defin, by, uh, analysis is good.
Speaker 1 00:15:48 I think God sees the good in us and that's what he wants us to see. And people screw up. I screwed up. Um, but I wanted to have the message that people are good and should strive to be good and basically strive to be a star, you know, in their own life and damn to the people that keep you down and hold you back. And don't let them keep thinking of yourself as a star. And I like to pray myself that I never really, uh, I mean, I had situations where it wasn't the nicest guy, um, but I always saw good and people, I always wanted him to be a star in your own. Right. I may have challenged them. I may have a no look like I didn't even like him, but I did. You know, I liked everybody. How do
Speaker 0 00:16:41 You come up with the names of your books,
Speaker 1 00:16:44 The names of the books. They just come to me. I think, I believe in the news, Sam, I believe in the news and my writing comes from some unknown part of me that the muse has given me an I never questioned it. I just have a feel for what's. The news wants me to say and had been able to tap that well for a long time now. And I never really have regulars black. I don't second guess myself, there is a part of me that I draw from that is a muse. And I know some artists think that's nonsense that are just a lot of work and, uh, it's effort. Well, it can be that too. It is work, but I believe that the news.
Speaker 0 00:17:37 So this is your actually your third block. That's correct. Um, let's talk about that. You have two others with similar themes, um, which is, uh, from let's see, what does that help from above push from below and fight for the middle and of course, city, boy, which we were once in here too. Yeah. Interview about. So talk a little bit about those.
Speaker 1 00:18:04 Wow. The book, how from below fight for the middle, uh, excuse me. How from above push from below fight for the middle is about my desire to live a middle-class life despite having a mental illness. And I was always raised, my parents were strong believers in the middle class. Um, my dad, especially, and my mother too, she was right there with them and they both believed in a middle-class strong middle-class life and they didn't seek out great wealth. Um, maybe could have had it if they worked on it. My dad was successful in many ways, but he chose to be a teacher because he wanted to do the same thing. So in a sense, I'm trying to be a teacher too, and I'm trying to teach people that for goodness sakes in our life today in America, we're losing the middle class. You're either becoming poor or super rich and the middle class is getting pinched off.
Speaker 1 00:19:06 So how from above push from below fight for the middle was really about, um, trying to find that middle ground, not only in economically, but morally and, uh, uh, spiritually, you know, don't be a fanatic, um, try and find that middle ground between up and down, staying on an even keel, which is huge to me because my life was very unstable. When I first had the car accident, my, my, my emotions were very unstable. I was very Radek. He made some bad decisions and, uh, you know, and had a hard life, but helpful above was really the angel. I had a vision of an angel and that was really the help from above and the push where below was really the fear of not succeeding. And, uh, you know, like the guy in the library, he was a push from below God and be a writer, um, don't end up like me, you know, he, he was, uh, he was, he was a push from below, so that, sorry, city boy is really a memoir of my life.
Speaker 1 00:20:20 It's kind of a romanticized view of the city. And it's a stretch in some ways that I had those kinds of thoughts when I was young as if I, the way I attribute them to my character in the book. Um, but I also heard about the city and I always started about how I'm going to get raped home and be comfortable in this environment because I wasn't always comfortable. And I was acting out in some ways and, um, you know, doing things that were probably contrary to my conscience. And although I did a lot in line with my conscious enough that when I had the car accident, people really believed I would recover. My friend once told me, Rick Martin, he told me, um, Bruce, I have faith in you that you make it to this. And, um, you know, so I had, I had friendships and I had good things, but there was some bad things, you know, the poverty, the injustices, the unequal, unequal wealth situation, some things that were negative, but in the end, uh, I became, okay.
Speaker 1 00:21:32 I was happy to be alive. I mean, suicide was, it came cross once to me and as a possibility, and, uh, I just rejected that and uh, said, no, um, life is worth it. Living in the city is actually a good thing and work for the good, you know, the good may not just come to you for free. You might have to work for Bruce. You might have to seek it out and you might have to make some moves in your life and ask some people, some questions and put yourself out there. That's, that's basically what city boy was about.
Speaker 0 00:22:11 I liked that thought of work for the good, um, I think that says a lot about your character. And I think that that's something that a lot of people go through life, just kind of taking, not necessarily giving back or thinking about what they're giving back. It's all about what they are going to get along the line. And I really think that that's a, that's a great thing to give back
Speaker 1 00:22:35 Out in this world with our parents, giving us everything they can, and some people never break out of that.
Speaker 0 00:22:42 What kind of feedback have you received from your readers?
Speaker 1 00:22:46 Well, I've received some positive, not nobody's really disparaged it heavily. Um, uh, I've received a lot of positive comments and people telling me, I'm glad you're doing better now because I have some of the tragedies in city boy that of my life. And, um, people are saying, I'm glad you're in better now. I'm glad you made it out of there. Uh, I hope it's evidency boy that took a lot of work to do that. And, uh, this didn't happen. Um, but uh, people have S Kansas said they liked it, city boy. And they said that, uh, in the end that there was something to smile about. And that was really cause I Al I almost lost the smile on my face at one time due to some unfortunate circumstances. And, uh, but to get the smile back on it and really believe in it and make it authentic was, uh, what CBOs all about.
Speaker 1 00:23:48 And I think my readers get that and they say, it's a pretty good book. One guy was just a static about it. And he's a serious writer. Same as Dan Snyder. He's a writer and he's got a big webpage. He's successful. He told me now he was stretching us and trying to make me feel good, but he told me it was the best book he ever read and he's read everything, he's read them all. And so he, he was stretching, trying to make me positive, bad breath, the book to a writing group, uh, uh, the head of the writing group at the U of M Michael Dennis Brown. I hate to name names, but that's the way it was. And he didn't think it was that good. And he then not let me in to get the MFA that I wanted. And so I was a little disappointed.
Speaker 1 00:24:39 And then I showed the book to Dan Snyder who came back with what he said, and I said, I'm going to go on as a writer, this one person, if I can make one person that happy, that's all I need. You know, and that's what allows people to live for just to make their partner in marriage happy. And I started, if I can make, if I can make just one reader happy it's worth it. And if I can make many readers happy, then it's really worth it. Uh, we're held for about push from below fight for the middle. Most people I've talked to have liked it. I I've had less comments. I've sold less books, uh, of that. Um, but they've liked, it told me it was an authentic story. Uh, had lot of characters and basically talked about a good program. They could see recovery, they could see that I was living kind of on a dream and going through a lot of emotions that were not really insane.
Speaker 1 00:25:37 The lot of things that were not really in my heart at the time, I was very distraught and very beaten down, but I would say, Hey, it's a great thing. The weather's great. You know, let's go out. And I would, I tried to stay positive the best I could. And I would have my moments. I was very hard to deal with and be very argumentative and hard to deal with. But basically I always tried to keep a positive and they have a, they have a sane in a group I'm in fake it till you make it. And that's exactly what I did. And that, that was helpful about push from everyone is a star. I've only had a couple people read that so far and, uh, reviews are favorable.
Speaker 0 00:26:24 Good. Excellent. We'll get more into that in a minute. We need to take just a short station break and we'll be right back
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Speaker 0 00:26:52 And progress. We're speaking with Bruce Ariel. Bruce is the author of a book of three books now, but one, the latest is everyone is a star. Um, so Bruce, I'm wondering, do you have other books in the planning?
Speaker 1 00:27:10 Pardon me? Um, yes, I do. I have written a fourth book now. Um, it's called changing ways and it has the two characters of bill and Sarah Randall Smith is in there as well. Um, bill has become a judge after being a lawyer, uh, and it's, and everyone is a star. He was a lawyer for Randall Smith who, uh, got on the wrong side of insider trading, but in the end was found innocent and he was innocent. And so, uh, bill got him off and that church, and then he became a lawyer, a judge, excuse me, a judge, and the mental health court in Manhattan. And there was some truth that the master house court was created at the time that I said it was. And, uh, some of it's true, some of it's based on factual things, but it's, it's really fiction. And, uh, um, it's about, uh, bill and Sarah's relationship. It's up close and Sarah still rebellious and she's doing something. She asked him what at least one bad friend, and, uh, she's doing some things that bill doesn't approve of and he doesn't give into it. And she thinks she's the Virgin Mary, which he doesn't accept. That's a delusion, but he doesn't accept it. And so that's that story it's called changing ways in the changes they go through, uh, Randall Smith, again, plays into the story.
Speaker 0 00:28:44 So it's clear to me that your comfort zone is writing about people with disabilities and disability issues. Why is that so important? Do you feel to have that type of issue in the marketplace?
Speaker 1 00:28:56 Well, I feel it's important because I think it's an unheard voice. And, uh, for me it became so focal in my life having a disability, uh, when you can't think you're pretty disabled and I couldn't think, and then there was one period of time where I couldn't say what was in my heart and I couldn't express good feelings and that being a Christian, I knew Jesus wanted me to say positive things and make a good, joyful noise. And I, I had a hard time doing that. And, uh, I know there's people out there that feel the same way. I mean, what do you do when you work for a company 30 years? And then all of a sudden they shut you out and you're done, it's hard to be joyful and make a positive. So I, I really am attracted the people that have had a hard time at something and really have turned it around and become positive.
Speaker 1 00:29:54 And it had a good influence in life and done something positive. I'm very keyed in on that mental health disability. It just happened. That's what my disability was. And I, but I think all disabilities are similar, uh, in that we fight something that most people take for granted. And don't even think about, I have to think about things. I do. Most people just go through the motions and they don't have to consider all those things and how it plays out. But my life is such that I have to be careful what I say and, uh, you know, measure my words and think of things. And I want people to know about that. I think people should be curious about life. I think people should know things about who you are. Uh, I asked as something that I decided to do a lot of times. Well, that was early in life. When I, I think I was basically asked with my friends, there were some things I wanted to keep private from them, but, uh, I think I was always honest, uh, and forthcoming and in the end, that's what I've been. I've told all my secrets, all my stories and, uh, I, I'm not hiding anything. And, uh, you know, I think that's, that's really Christian and that's what I want to be as I want to be a good Christian.
Speaker 0 00:31:21 How do you feel like the creative process has changed for you over, um, as far as writing goes like from your first book to now?
Speaker 1 00:31:30 Okay. The first book, I was only really able to get into my own head and, uh, write about myself and understand my own motivations and create a plot line with my own life. That was my first book. Second book, I did a little more experimenting, burdensome, new characters. Some of them worse composites of friends of mine, some of them were made up song were pretty much the characters. They had known them in life. And so that was the second book by the third book I was getting into fiction. And, um, because I write fiction because I don't want anybody to really follow closely the path I took. It was devastating, the path I took. And in the end, I had to surrender my life over to guide. And, um, I did not live out the life that I, as I planned it, uh, who I was.
Speaker 1 00:32:32 And, uh, so I think fiction is a good answer because now my life is fiction. It's, it's all, it's all what I've made. It's all with. God has helped me make. And, um, this ancient call it real, but it's not the reality that I experienced growing up. And so I like fiction. I a, the character of the process now of writing is getting into more people's heads and creating plats. That has a message. Yes. But there's something to be said, art for art's sake. And, um, that's kinda what I believe in. I, I used to have to have a justification for everything that was my father's influence. What is this reasonable? Does it make sense? Is it logical? And, uh, I've kind of, you could say, I like to think I've grown beyond that, but you still don't want to think of yourself as zany. Um, but to write fiction and I think phishing, ashy reflects life more closely sometimes than what you think fact does. I think you can say things in art that no philosopher can, uh, can man,
Speaker 0 00:33:45 I'd like to talk about something you referenced in your books. Um, it's in reference to a place called Fairweather and it is, um, actually it sounds like it's based on a place that's called tasks unlimited, which is creates an alternative approach to mental illness. Hospitalization. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Speaker 1 00:34:06 That's my favorite subject. If I have one motivation right now, it is to drive Fairweather. George Fairweather was a psychologist out of the 1960s. I met him many times a diminutive man, but with a very big spirit. And, uh, he said, people with mental illness should live together and work together and support each other. It's a disability, you know, helping each other. And I've really thrived off that model. I've not seen that it's been a rose garden or a cakewalk, but, uh, it's, it's been good in that. It's been challenging. Uh, the people I believe in the people that I work with, I believe they're really trying. I've never met anybody that tries her. That's the nature of the illness. You have to try pretty hard to make any progress and it's made in inches, not miles and a fair-weather created, where do you call the lodge model?
Speaker 1 00:35:04 And lads a lodge is our group home where people live and supporting work with each other. And there's very little staff, very little SAF staff has been well, maybe seven hours a week of staff is in the lodge. And, uh, it's, it's, um, it's, it's kind of almost like a utopian idea, uh, which attracted me, excuse me. And it's also a radical idea to think that methyl, the old people are the people that carry each other course. When you get mad around, she'd go to a psychiatrist. And my psychiatrist have been helpful. My current one, Dr. Ken Knutson is helpful to me. Um, but basically what he does is provide me medication and I do the rest. And, uh, the rest is that this not just the given it's, you have to work for, you have to make choices, you have to make decisions in your life. And, uh, I was based my decisions on what I thought was good for tasks unlimited. And I think I'm a good employee sometimes I think I'm the best employee. And, uh, and, uh, so you always, uh, yeah, I was, uh, trying to do something good for the organization you're working on. You can, you can say, I am a company, man.
Speaker 0 00:36:30 You have talked a lot about the justice system in this latest book. How do you feel like the justice system handles mentally ill people?
Speaker 1 00:36:39 Well, I think a big, uh, a big step forward was when they got mental health courts. Now, Sam, when I was hospitalized, when I was arrested, if I had gone to jail more likely than that, I would be dead by now. I would otherwise it'd be out on the streets, homeless community, petty crime. I would have never have had the spiritual awakening that I had from the mental health system. And from Joan hunger. Uh, she gave me a belief that mental illness is not the worst thing in life. I thought it was the absolute worst and I rejected it. I would not touch it. I would not think about it. Um, but she helped me to realize that it's, uh, it's just a human frailty and, uh, everyone's got their frailties and yours happens to be mental. So I took it and ran with that.
Speaker 1 00:37:35 Um, the justice system should acknowledge mental illness. It's devastating. You do not know what reality is when I was in jail, I thought the hell's angels were going to the police were going to let the hell's angels in to kill me. That's where, and that's really what I thought. So you can imagine how rampant my imagination went and people with a mental illness, they're not all that way. And if you get on medication, you can make rational decisions and that's important. Um, the people that are rational and that's the <inaudible>, but so we deal with something that the average person does not deal with. We think things through to the infinite amount. And I think the legal system should recognize that and cut us a little slack, especially in crimes that are non-violent and, uh, where we haven't heard anybody. And, um, I think the mental health system, the mental health courts that have become into prominence all for they've been in about 20 years, some of them even longer now, um, I went to the mental health courts and mental health court when I went through it, but my judge was very intuitive and she recognized that that was my bedroom chance to be treated forgiven and to be treated with respect and dignity and to, uh, give me help that I needed, even though I didn't realize it fully myself, uh, she had the power and the position she made the decision and, uh, I think more people should have that benefit.
Speaker 1 00:39:25 Jail is a hard thing. Uh, some people are commit crimes. They're not messy. The majority are not messy, but a lot of enough of them are that, uh, uh, it should be recognized,
Speaker 0 00:39:40 Bruce, I'm sure you're familiar with this, but I'd like to touch on the HIPAA policy and if you're familiar with or anybody out there, the HIPAA PR presumably protects everyone. So here's a scenario here. If, if you're walking down the street and maybe you have a white cane or a dog, people can see that you have a disability, if something happens or something's going wrong, people kind of know, um, there's really no hiding it. I always consider mental illnesses, the quote, hidden disability, because you don't always know. Some people have it under very tight control and they do very well with it. So you would not ever know. Um, do you feel like the HIPAA policy ever works against you if people don't know you have a disability or do you feel like that even better protection? Well,
Speaker 1 00:40:29 Phil familiarize me with the HIPAA policy. Isn't that the policy that says disclosures better code disclosures. Is that something else?
Speaker 0 00:40:37 It is, but it's even like you can't ask things about your disability.
Speaker 1 00:40:42 Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, I I'm, I'm glad you could say I came out as a disabled person. Um, I'm kinda glad I did. People were not recognizing the problems I was having until I stared matching them at tasks. It was kind of considered a given that you had some problems and, uh, you're going to work with them. You are going to take responsibility for them. Um, but I was dealing with some stuff, just my reaction time and thinking was slowed down. Um, some of my ideas that were coming from within me were not positive. And I had not experienced that before. I'd always been kind of joyful and, um, you know, it's a hidden diseases, invisible disease, but I think people should disclose it and talk about it. It doesn't go away. I thought that was my hope in life that my symptomology would go away.
Speaker 1 00:41:54 The only thing that's made it go away into anything that's made it be recovered, is to own it and deal with it, head on. And I don't think he deal with it. Head-on by being secretive. And I've decided I decided quite a while ago to come out and speak, like I'm doing tonight to write about it in my books. Um, it doesn't make me less of a person to have an illness. It doesn't make me any less of a person. I have rates like everybody else. And, um, you know, having those that everybody's got something in their life, um, some things probably should not be disclosed. I believe that, but, um, they can be disclosed to maybe one other person or a few people, but mental illnesses such that your boundaries get really distorted. And, uh, I think it's just best to, uh, pretty much like the homosexuals have decided to do is come out in the open and stop trying to hide. Um, I think it's healthy. I, I don't try to impose myself on other people. Um, but if they ask me, I'm certainly willing to tell them, I think, uh, if they come up and ask me if I'm crazy, I say, come on and say, are you crazy? Well, of course that hurts. And, uh, I don't like that, but if they say, are you a person with mental illness? I can say yes. And that doesn't make me feel bad.
Speaker 0 00:43:30 How long does it generally take for you to write a book?
Speaker 1 00:43:34 Ooh, that's a good question. City boy, I started in 1995 and published in 2016. So it was a long process, has my first book. And it went, I knew it many, many revisions and uh, many forms. It was first a Kendall and then a paperback. And that helped push from below and a little faster. That was maybe two years. Uh, everyone is a star, had some changes to, it used to be called. Everyone is a hero. And I thought everyone is a hero. Well, that, that kinda hurts some people because not everybody is a hero. I think everybody's a star. Yes, but not everybody's a hero. Heroes are really special. And that's people that do extraordinary things, uh, with little self regard. And so I wanted to change the title to everyone is a star that probably excuse me, that probably took a couple of years, three years to write and then little revision. My fourth book that is in line to be published eventually, uh, is taken me three or four years. Uh,
Speaker 0 00:44:53 So it sounds like the more you write the faster it gets. And do you feel that city boy was your hardest one, right?
Speaker 1 00:45:00 Hardest. Yes. Uh, yes, because it's so honest that I was divulging things that were private and I was, in some ways I might've even been exposing, well, definitely exposed an old girlfriend of mine, but I had felt betrayed in the relationships. I didn't feel really bad about that, but it might, it might cost me my friends. I wonder what was going on. But as a hard rate for that reason is that I was being so blatantly honest about things that most people don't talk about. What's been your favorite book to write Sydney boy. Ah, okay. City, boy. They've all been good in their own way though. Mm.
Speaker 0 00:45:45 So how do you come up with the different ideas?
Speaker 1 00:45:50 Well, um, like I said, um, they just come to me. I, I like to think that I have a meals. I had a spiritual awakening with an angel who gave me a vision of Christ. I know that sounds very holy and very untouchable. And, uh, hopefully it's that it wasn't for me. I tried to take what I learned too into my life and teach and show other people. And I learned a lot of other people have very interesting spiritual lives too. Um, I get the ideas, uh, from the news, I believe, you know, the general idea and then lately, uh, the last couple books and, uh, I think in the foreseeable future, I'll be reading about justice and justice. My ideas of justice were really formed, really formed. When I went to law school, I had two years of law school at one point and, um, then I was unable to finish, but I'm back in there now I'm taking law classes trying to finish up my, my three third year.
Speaker 1 00:47:06 I won't get a JD, but, uh, I will get that two year. And, um, that's really where my ideas of justice come. And once again, I, I found people with disabilities coming up, short, being neglected, money talks. It's the rich people getting the benefits and you could call me Bernie Sanders, but I'm not, I'm not a big fan. Bernice, I think there's other politicians. I'm more middle of the road. But, um, I think that, uh, that, uh, justice escape side people, and really one other goal that I have, I have a lot of goals and live interests and very diverse. I, my goal is to make justice accessible to everybody, everybody that's on their death bed should be able to look back in their life and see how they received justice. And for a long time, that meant something like revenge to me. And my dad quickly took me aside when I was talking that way and talking about revenge.
Speaker 1 00:48:11 He goes, bury the hatchet, Bruce life is too short to be angry and revengeful, uh, Christ said, vengeance is my territory. And so I left it at that, whatever God decides to do about my life and other people's lives, but basically I wanted to make justice accessible to anybody. So they feel, really feel that their life has been dealt with justly. And that may be a hundred percent, but one area of their life they could feel has really been, you really received justice in your life. That's, that's what, that's, what really drives my rating now is, is justice. And, and the biggest person people to do that are the judges and the lawyers. Um, but Steve, a very bad rap from a lot of people. And I think it's an unfortunate, and that's just because I went to law school, but I do think differently as a result of going to law school.
Speaker 1 00:49:15 Um, I think lawyers perform a huge benefit to society. If you can imagine people resulting to taking a club out or gun and having an advantage that way or going to court and reasoning it out, which is the better solution. I think the courts and Dali are the better solution and people can feel that hopefully they feel that there's justice in the courts. Um, and that's what sure all the time, but, uh, I would like to think that I help out in that area. And then I can see through the BS and, uh, know that, you know, lawyers and lawyers just by nature, I was trying to work for your rates. Now they want to get paid and some of them want to get paid well. Um, I I'm okay with that. Um, they, they perform a service and I think some people have gotten almost into the notion that they're owed justice for free and they expect justice just to come to them. They expect to be dealt with justly without effort on their part. And that's, that's a pipe dream justice. You have to work for justice, you have to pursue it. You have to know what you're looking for and you have to pursue it. And you have to find people that can help you if you really interested in getting justice, or if you'd rather sit on your bar stool and yeah,
Speaker 0 00:50:52 You speak a lot for the national Alliance on mental illness or NAMI. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Speaker 1 00:50:59 Well, Nam is an organization helped me out. NAMI's stand for national lines. I had mental illness and they have helped me out. I used to do more speaking for them lately. Haven't done as much because I couldn't get the time off from work, but I spoken told my story, similar reasons, wanting to get my story out. It's I enjoy being in the spotlight. I think everybody should be in the spotlight at least once in their life. But I spoke for NAMI because I believe in the organization, I believe they do good work. They've helped a lot of people. When you get a mental us, you don't think about it. I never thought about it going up there. I thought I would, my mind was safe. My mind was a steel trap and I never tried it. I would have the problems I had. Um, and nobody does, but it can happen. I had a car accident, changed my life and uh, some people just get, it just comes over him and he can't stop it. It's on sapele. And, uh, nymi is one organization as really committed itself to helping that class of people. And they've done a great job. And so I'm happy to support them any way I can.
Speaker 0 00:52:15 Any final things you'd like to say,
Speaker 1 00:52:18 Uh, buy my book, read it, take it to heart and dry it and have a nice night.
Speaker 0 00:52:24 Well, we really have enjoyed you being on the show, Bruce. Thank you so much. Take care.
