Speaker 0 00:00:00 <silence> K.
Speaker 1 00:00:39 Greetings and thank you for joining Disability and Progress. We will bring you insights into ideas about and discussions on disability topics. My name is Sam, I'm the host of this show. Charlene Doll is my research woman. Hello, Charlene.
Speaker 3 00:00:51 Hello, everyone.
Speaker 1 00:00:53 Miguel Vargas is recording engineering this episode. Thank you, Miguel. Erin is our podcaster. Thank you, Erin. And tonight we have, or today we have a two-part series. We will be doing, our first will be speaking with Jane McClure. Jane is Editor of Access Press, and she's going to be talking to us all about access, press, who they are, what they do, and all sorts of things. So thank you Jane, for joining me.
Speaker 3 00:01:25 Glad to do that. And hello to you and your whole crew,
Speaker 1 00:01:29 <laugh>. Uh, so can you start out by giving us some history about you and how you got involved with Access Press?
Speaker 3 00:01:39 Well, I've been a journalist with bylines in newspapers since age 12. Geez. I started writing for rural Iowa papers when I was growing up. In fact, I'm probably one of the youngest people to have a Minnesota Newspaper Association 50 year award. I got that when I was,
Speaker 1 00:01:57 Oh, congratulations. <laugh>. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:01:59 It's, yeah, it's on the wall somewhere here. So, thanks. And I've written for newspapers in Iowa and Minnesota almost all my life. And mm-hmm. <affirmative> now, I, I've Veed Access Press for Wow, well over 10 years. And I also write for the St. Paul Community papers and do other freelance writing. Access Press is published monthly, and we are expanding our web presence and trying to do more to get news out between the print issues. We've, we've sometimes had people ask, well, could you publish a, a hard copy newspaper more than once a month? And economically, it makes more sense for us to move more copy online. It's, it's more accessible for people who use software to read a paper. It's more accessible to people who may need to magnify copy to read it. Um, and it's more accessible given the cost of mailing these days, which every newspaper in the country's been talking about mailing costs. So
Speaker 1 00:03:05 Yeah, I believe that. And, um, I will say though, that Newsline is a great place to, that they read all sorts of newspapers. So even for those papers that might publish more, um, people can at least hear them being read. So that's, that's a nice thing. Um, I'm just curious, can you give me a little bit of history of how Access Press got its start?
Speaker 3 00:03:29 Oh, sure. Access Press began in 1990. It was founded by a disability rights activist named Charlie Smith. Charlie was quadriplegic, um, a result of a, a diving accident, I believe. And in 1990, we didn't have the internet. Uh, we, you know, it was a big deal if you had a fax machine crude as those right. Were back then. And the paper was really smelly and <laugh>, you basically communicated by phone trees. If you were in a neighborhood and needed to communicate about an issue, you did flyering. Well, Minnesota's disability community was pretty far flung. So Charlie started the paper as a means to communicate with an organized the disability community around issues. Charlie was much more of an activist than most editors are. There's a great story about him and a bunch of other people in wheelchairs who went into the governor's office to raise an issue and security arrested them, and then had to let them go with a stern warning because there wasn't a way to get a lot of people in wheelchairs off to jail. <laugh>, <laugh> Security
Speaker 1 00:04:41 Didn't have lucky, lucky for them. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:04:44 Lucky for them. But yeah, Charlie, Charlie was quite an activist. He, um, raised a lot of important issues. He liked to hold feet to the fire, so to speak. Um, one of our big issues back in the day was what became Metro Transit and Metro Mobility and the lack of transportation for people with disabilities. If you had a job, you had to have family or friends drive you if you couldn't drive yourself. Yeah. 'cause there was no accessible public transit. And Charlie raised a lot of the issues. He, he also was somebody who had a real soft spot for kids and mentored a lot of kids. He also mentored a lot of people with disabilities, including Tim Benjamin, his successor as, ah, executive editor and executive director. Charlie died in 2021. In 20 in 2000, 2001, sorry. And we started an award in his honor a few years later, and we're bringing back the award this year. We used the Charlie Smith Award to honor Minnesotans who provide outstanding service to the disability community. And
Speaker 1 00:05:53 We'll talk more about that in a minute.
Speaker 3 00:05:55 Yeah. So that's how we, that's how we, how we honor and remember Charlie Smith. And it's kind of sad that fewer people, you know, we, people are aging out in the community and fewer people remember him. But he was quite a pioneer as an editor, and he was quite a pioneer as a self-advocate and activist.
Speaker 1 00:06:16 I feel like fewer people. I mean, I know there's the go to the capital each year and stuff like that, but I feel like fewer people really do that good old fashioned riot without the riot. You know what I mean? They, they,
Speaker 3 00:06:30 I do. Yes.
Speaker 1 00:06:32 Yes. And I, I feel like I see less of that. It's almost as if people are, well, if it's going okay in my world, then I don't need to do it. But really, these things will reach you far and, and, um, in, in ways that you won't even realize until it hits you and then, you know,
Speaker 3 00:06:54 And then it can be too late.
Speaker 1 00:06:56 Right.
Speaker 3 00:06:57 We've observed that too. Um, I knew Access Press, I knew Charlie years before I went to work for the paper. I was uhhuh active with a group called Neighborhood and Community Press Association for years and years. And we've noticed that too. And a lot of kind of the, I guess we'd call ourselves the old timers, um, have noticed that as well. And I think there's a lot of reasons for that. I think for younger people with disabilities, there's a lot more accommodations. There's a lot more availability of jobs. There's more ways to be involved in your community and for other people. On a practical standpoint, you need to be supporting yourself. You'd love to be at the Capitol speaking for your rights, but, but you have a job and you need to keep a roof over your head. And you, you need to keep working. I really, I'm 65, and I really envy the opportunities that younger people had, because I had situations in my younger days where I was told point blank by, by larger newspapers that, you know, you're really good, but you've been hospitalized for depression, so we can't hire you. Ugh. And you know, everyone's like, well, why didn't you sue? Well, I was young. I had no money.
Speaker 1 00:08:16 Right.
Speaker 3 00:08:17 Um, I had to take any kind of job to keep a roof over my head. And it's, it's really galling. I mean, it's great to see younger people in, in jobs that were not open to us older folks years ago, but it, it is, it does make you a little sad. And I think that's what's happened with activism. I think more people are working, more people have other opportunities. What we've seen with a lot of the organizing is, well, I'll use this consortium for Citizens with Disabilities as an example. That used to be a lot more grassroots, that used to be a lot more self-advocates. And now it's tipped a lot more toward staff. Um, here's our lobbyist, here's our public policy person. Is that bad? No, it's actually good. You've got the people who have boots on the ground at the Capitol who can speak with authority about legislative issues.
Speaker 3 00:09:12 But I do think we need to see kind of a balance come back with self-advocacy and advocates. I will say that since the pandemic restrictions have eased, we've seen more people at the Capitol. But I don't know if we'll ever get to the huge crowds we used to see several years ago. I just think, I just think for some people it's not part of their culture. It's not a thing. And I think that's too bad, because when you have a disability, it's all too easy for your elected officials to not hear you, see you be aware of you in
Speaker 1 00:09:54 Some way. Right. Yeah. And I think if you look at the, now, we just celebrated the 33rd, um, a d a act, uh, the 33rd year. And I, I presume maybe you've touched on that in the paper. I, we did. Yeah. They're so far to go, you know, it, there's things that they cover and, and I feel like, well, but you don't really, uh, it, the gaps are still there.
Speaker 3 00:10:22 The gaps are huge. And I will acknowledge that I live with six disabilities, one of which is I'm an adult on the autism spectrum. And I didn't know that until I was an adult. I mean, I was just written off by some people as a weird kid. And it's great to have accommodations, but I find myself really needing accommodations at sometimes and still can't find them. I mean, there's times I'm, don't tell me about the aada a because I don't have this and I don't have that, and blah, blah, blah, blah. And I think a lot of us feel that way and feel like the policymakers have said, oh, 33 years ago we passed it. We're good. We're not, we do have a long ways to go. Um, in fact, in this issue of access press, we've got an editorial we're watching with some real alarm that employers are rolling back the possibilities for remote work. And yes. That we have rolled back the possibilities for remote participation in st in, in local government, your city council, your boards, commissions, or committees. And when we deny those opportunities to people with disabilities, we're denying some real talent. And I understand wanting to have an office culture, but I also understand from my own experience, wanting to work and having real struggles in physically getting to an audible
Speaker 1 00:11:48 Somebody. Yes. And you think about how some of these people got their jobs when remote work was what you needed to do. And now if you pull it back, what will happen to them? They won't be able to make the office.
Speaker 3 00:12:01 Exactly. I mean, we're not talking about someone who bought a beach house or a beautiful cabin in the mountains to do their remote work. We're talking about people who need to work to live and support themselves and employers. There's employers need to consider that. And there's not any kind of, you know, regulatory club under the A d a I think to help with that. I mean, I think the loss of remote work is gonna be an a d a court case waiting to happen, and we set as much in our editorial, but it's, it's, it's really frustrating. And in St. Paul, for example, where I live and work part-time for the community papers, um, remote participation meant people could be on a board, a commission, or a committee. Our city council is more progressive than most. They let people call in for their city council public testimony.
Speaker 3 00:12:51 Right. But we have groups in St. Paul that haven't, you know, boards, commissions, and committees that haven't been able to meet for months because they can't get quorum. And if you have remote participation, they could, that's gonna take a change in the state Open meetings law. That's, but we have these open government, I'm just gonna call 'em what they are. They're GA wise, and they need to shut up and they need to let us change the law. <laugh>, I mean, it's just, you know, they need to allow remote participation. I don't see, is there potential for misuse or scandal? Well, maybe, but let us try it. I mean, and for God's sakes, don't go to the capitol and speak for us. That just, that just makes me, ugh. I just, I, I get that a lot. I mean, I always tell the story about going to a clinic with a sprained to ankle and, and somehow the word disabled was on my chart, and the cab driver was helping me into the clinic and just met the cab driver. Nice guy, but the receptionist was talking to him and not Right. <laugh>. And that just don't speak for us.
Speaker 1 00:13:58 Yeah. That's amazing. That's for us
Speaker 3 00:13:59 Until you've had our lived experience. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:14:02 That's still happens. I just, it, yeah. It just, that angers me too. Oh, yeah. What kind of people write for who writes for Access Press, and what kind of articles can I find in that paper?
Speaker 3 00:14:13 Well, right now I'm doing most of the writing. We've had, we, like a lot of other community papers, um, have had trouble finding writers. Um, a lot of people want to write, but they want to write about only what they're interested in. And I'll be polite and say that that's a vlog and I don't pay you. Um, the submissions we get and the things I do, we do a lot of public policy because we're probably the only paper in the state that covers public policy like we do. And we cover it like a map at a lot of levels of government. This issue is a little fluffier because we do a lot with Minnesota State Fair Access. And that's important. I mean, I know people who save up all year to go to the state fair. We, we add, we write about the new accommodations. We do a separate accessible dining guide that people can find a link to online from our website. And if you're going to the fair and you need to find a place with a table or where you can have companion seating, that's super helpful.
Speaker 1 00:15:17 Yes.
Speaker 3 00:15:17 We have a lot of stories that come in about accomplishments of people in the community, and those are usually submitted by others. We have editorials and commentaries. We have a good commentary in this month from Tamarack, which Tamarack is Oh,
Speaker 1 00:15:34 I remember them.
Speaker 3 00:15:35 Yep. Tamarack is trying real hard to get the centers for Medicare and Medicaid. I always get the mixed up c m s. Yeah. And they're trying to get a new device, you know, into the, into the queue, as I always call it. And they're having real hassles with c m s in getting that approved. Another letter we have this month is from Joy Rydel Hayden, who people might be familiar with. She's the older lady from Minneapolis who fell while getting off a bus, sustained a brain injury. Oh. And went to the Capitol for years and finally got legislation passed to allow for, to not to allow for, to require Metro Transit and other bus driver training to help people with disabilities. Right. And do an off of buses so they don't fall. She exhausted her savings on medical care. Ah, you know, this is a lady who has to go to a food shelf now, and she, she was at the Capitol for I think five years trying to get, so, so we had her letter in. We, we do that kind of thing. You know, I always say to people, if you wanna know what we print ask, I get, I always curse the Paperless Society in hundreds of emails because mm-hmm. I get emails that have nothing to do with disability from health. Right. Public relations types. And, you know, I, I don't wanna tell them to go away, but I have to say no, you know? Right.
Speaker 1 00:17:04 So we, you did touch on this a bit at the beginning in regards to how the paper's changed. I wonder if you would expand a little more on that, because it is, you know, having a paper now I, I think is really hard. Um, like you said, it used to be the papers came out and everyone bought them and wanted them, and now it's a little different. It's online. Talk a little bit about how that changes for you and how that changes any, you know, how does one charge for something like that online?
Speaker 3 00:17:39 Well, it's very hard for us. We, um, when newspapers started going online, not just us, but they mm-hmm. <affirmative> put all their content up for free, and I'll speak out of school here. We frankly had an ill-advised decision that our subscriptions should be free. And I was against that, the paper subscriptions. And I believe now we're gonna have to go to some kind of voluntary subscription because we have costs, we have costs of printing, we have costs of production. I need to be paid, I need to pay writers. We need to pay a business or operations manager. We need to pay a content manager online. So it's really challenging. A lot of our advertising has gone online. If you used to go pick up a big bat Sunday paper and, you know, here was a nice pile of ads that Mm. Some folks could go through.
Speaker 3 00:18:32 Yeah. Those days are gone. I, I had a niece pass away recently, and I always think of her when she was a little kid. And I'd go to her house for Thanksgiving and I'd have the paper with all the Black Friday ads, and ah, yes, she was, she was a little, when she was a little girl, she would just disappear with my newspaper and <laugh>. I was like, Charlotte, bring my newspaper back. But, um, you know, those, those days are gone. Advertising has gone online and it's, it's frankly a struggle. I mean, in the disability community, we have a lot of people who are very low income. We want them to have access to news at the same time, does my work as a person with disability not have value? Right. That's kind of the balance. We're striking, aiming right now our website is free.
Speaker 3 00:19:17 We may have to go to voluntary subscriptions for the print edition. We may have to make the hard decision someday to go to, this is paid content, this is freed content that, that's gonna be something we're gonna have to talk to our board about. But it is really hard. I read somewhere, you know, we have several newspapers close in this country every month. Right. Somewhere I had read two a week, and sadly that wouldn't surprise me. The first newspaper I started writing for when I was 12 years old is gone. Um, papers I remember from my attending the Minnesota Newspaper Association annual meeting are gone. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we had, we had almost 50 urban neighborhood papers. Not the suburbs, urban Minneapolis, St. Paul proper monthly, twice monthly papers years ago in the Twin Cities in, in Minneapolis, St. Paul. We're down to fewer than a dozen. And people can say, oh, I'll get my news off the internet. But you know, how reliable is some nonsense that, you know. Right. You die down the street posts on the neighborhood Facebook. Exactly. Yeah. I grew up, again, 12 years old, little, little journalist. I grew up with editors who said, when your mother says she loves you, check it out. And so much stuff now I see isn't, is not even verified. It's
Speaker 1 00:20:49 Just No. That, that is a problem. And that is a problem with anything online. Right. Except for if you state, you know, if you are somebody who states where you found your stuff, so many people don't. Exactly.
Speaker 3 00:21:01 Exactly.
Speaker 1 00:21:02 Jane, real quickly, if somebody wants to write for access press, how do they get involved and do that?
Speaker 3 00:21:10 They can contact me, and they can contact me at
[email protected]. Um, but again, I have to be kind and state. You know, we always welcome commentary pieces, those we don't pay for. If I'm gonna pay you as a writer, you're gonna have to do an assignment unless you really come in with a fabulous idea, um, you're, we're gonna, you're gonna have to, we, we will, you know, you have to take an assignment. I always say that if you wanna write your very deep thoughts, that's a blog. And I don't pay you. We, we get a lot of people who want to be columnists, and we tend to not do regular columns because we've had so many people come in and say, well, I wanna do a column, and then they write three or four, and then, oh, I'm busy. Or, oh, I'm run outta topics. And it's like, ah, you know? Um, yet at the same time, we've had some good columns. Years ago we worked with my tho and did her pregnancy blog. She uses a wheelchair. Yeah. And her experience with pregnancy was probably very different than most people's, and very enlightening. And at the same time, another publication was running something called Susie's Public Susie's Pregnancy Story, and it was all flowers and roses, and we're like, no, it's not.
Speaker 1 00:22:27 Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Um, so tho those are the types of stories that you like to hear and assignments that people will be expected to take. Uh, you, you have an awards banquet coming up. Would you like to talk a little about that?
Speaker 3 00:22:45 I'd like to, yes. We have an awards banquet on Friday, November 3rd. We'll be at the U of M at the McNamara Center. Boyd Huert from Care Levi, who's done a ton of stories on disability, and he does a great job with sensitivity. And he doesn't play, I don't see him playing at the pity angle as much, nearly as much as other reporters do. He's our master of ceremonies and speaker we will be giving, and this is important to note, because the deadline for this is, is August 11th, we will be res, we will be bringing back the Charlie Smith Award. The Charlie Smith Award, again, is for Minnesotans who provide outstanding service to our state's disability community. The, the award can go to a person, it can go to a group, it can go to, well, the group can be any size, two or three people, 50 people.
Speaker 3 00:23:36 We've had businesses nominated. That's okay, too. We've had businesses win. If you've won before, you can't win again. But if you were nominated before and didn't win, you can be nominated. Nominees must be living people. But you can email us at, um,
[email protected], or you can check our website, www.accesspress.org. We can get you an award form. We can direct you to banquet tickets, or you can buy banquet tickets online. We're hoping for a good turnout. This is not only a celebration of the Charlie Smith Award, it's also a celebration of our late executive director, editor Tim's, Tim Benjamin, my dear friend Yeah. Who died about a year ago. And we, we really miss him. And this will be a chance to, again, celebrate his life and his accomplishments.
Speaker 1 00:24:29 And what are some of the, the things you'd like to see as far as if somebody's being nominated for the Charlie Smith Award? What, what does that mean?
Speaker 3 00:24:40 Well, you just fill out a form, and if you need accommodations, you can call me and I will help you fill out the form. The form's pretty easy. You just tell us who the person is, what they do, and why you think they should get the award. We're not gonna make folks jump through a lot of hoops. Well, some of us can't jump. And, um, so that's out. But it's a pretty easy form. And again, think of somebody who maybe is an unsung hero. Think of somebody who may not get a lot of other awards or think of somebody who's had a very long career. Um, you, you look at some of our past winners like Rick Cardenas, Jeff Berg, Margo, Mick Cross, who had long, long careers in the disability community. And it's a nice way to honor one of them. Maybe somebody's recently retired from an organization, but we don't, you know, we don't expect you to be Shakespeare in writing your nomination. And again, if you need help, I can walk. I walked plenty of people through the nominations, and I'm glad to do that. But we need those in by August 11th.
Speaker 1 00:25:52 Um, Charlene, I wanted to give my research person a chance. Did you have anything you wanted to ask Jane? Uh,
Speaker 4 00:26:02 Do you have one particular compelling story that you just love to share?
Speaker 3 00:26:09 That I would like to share? Yeah. About myself or about someone else? It,
Speaker 4 00:26:14 It, uh, either way.
Speaker 3 00:26:17 Well, I think for myself, I think all of of my disabilities, I guess I joke about the disability du jour. Um, I think I'm 65. I'd like to keep working for several more years, God willing, will be able to find the financial support to keep access press and other newspapers around.
Speaker 3 00:26:41 My story is being somebody who had to work without a lot of accommodations and who was kind of marginalized and criticized for that. Um, I, sometimes I'm the kind of person who can be very petty. Um, I kinda like it when my high school bullies marry someone who's difficult or they've gotten fat <laugh>, I'll just put it out there <laugh>. Um, I think, I think when you grow up with disabilities, you really, you really feel those effects. You're kind of the weird kid. And that's how I have felt my entire life. And it's really, I'm glad to see other people get opportunities that I didn't have as a person with multiple disabilities. But I gotta say, it's hard. I mean, it's really hard to have, you know, worked along at the poverty level. And, you know, I get younger people who are really blythe about the struggles. People like me, maybe people like you guys. And so many others had, I mean, I think they forget, I mean, shoot, no accessible restrooms, no curb cuts. Um, no accommodations.
Speaker 1 00:28:03 Yep. I remember I had to have a reader for my class. I didn't have all the note taking things that a lot of kids have in college now. And I am, I'm just, I'm so envious. And then when they do, don't do well, I'm like, how could you not? You have so many things that your fingertips.
Speaker 3 00:28:20 Exactly. Exactly.
Speaker 1 00:28:21 I, I dunno, I don't get it. But
Speaker 3 00:28:23 I, I don't get it. I mean, I have a good friend who, um, always had mobility challenges, was born with them, and she talks about at her school, the football team, the guys would take turns carrying her up and down the stairs. Aw. And that's kinda how nice of the football team. But in the same way, you're being carried around. Yeah. And that's kinda, yeah, that kinda brings one of those ugh moments. And it's just, it's really, I think especially for those of us who are new neurodiverse who are older, who just were not understood, I think that's, that's kind of, for me, the compelling story. And I, if I see kids on the spectrum, those are gonna be the kids that I'm gonna do some extra for. That's just, I, you know, I'm not gonna slam the door in the other kids' faces, but it's, those are the kids that I'm gonna have a little more time for because people didn't always have time for me.
Speaker 1 00:29:27 Real quick, how can people get access press?
Speaker 3 00:29:30 You can go to our website, www.accesspress.org and read the content. You can email us at
[email protected] for a subscription. I'll put in a plug here. We are nonprofit taxed. All contributions are tax deductible. If you have a business or an organization that needs to advertise, we'd love to have you. And we offer a wide range of ad options. Those are what keep us publishing.
Speaker 1 00:29:58 And again, how can people get tickets to the Charlie Smith, to the banquet?
Speaker 3 00:30:03 Go to our website. You can, you'll find something before the event and you can click on and buy your tickets through that.
Speaker 1 00:30:11 Thank you, Jane. I really appreciate you coming on and talking about, um, access press. And, and hopefully the future will be, will get a little brighter once, I don't know, things probably have to get smoothed out with how things are going online, but I wish, wish you the best.
Speaker 3 00:30:30 Thank you so much, and to you as well. And thanks so much for having me on today. Our
Speaker 1 00:30:33 Second half will be speaking with Dawn Bentley. Dawn is Executive director of Minnesota Fringe. And Dawn, give us some history about how you came to Minnesota Fringe, because you, you left it, but just missed it so much, came back and, uh, tell us a little bit about how long you've been with them.
Speaker 5 00:30:56 Sure. Thank you for having me on, Sam. Uh, I started with Minnesota Fringe in 2017, uh, and about four months before my first festival, <laugh>, so this will be my seventh
Speaker 1 00:31:08 Festival trial by Fire <laugh>. It
Speaker 5 00:31:09 Was indeed trial by fire. So this will be my seventh festival with the organization in my sixth year. Um, and, uh, when I started, uh, Minnesota Fringes Festival, we had about 760 shows. Um, and we had never been in a pandemic before and lots have changed since then. So, uh, we are now at, uh, 525 performances, and we've survived two years of having hybrid and virtual programming, which is, uh, a herculean feat considering arts organization around town. Had a hard time. I had briefly started to step away from the organization in 2021, but, uh, really felt like my job here wasn't done and wanted to see the organization through to, um, fully recover from the pandemic. So I came back after going part-time for that virtual and hybrid year, and then, uh, coming back full-time. Last year was our first year back in the theaters after three years of mystery <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:32:18 That's a good way of putting it. Uh, what is an executive director all in charge of?
Speaker 5 00:32:23 Uh, I, my focus is primarily to ensure that we, um, achieve our mission to connect adventurous artists with adventurous audiences by creating, uh, platforms for artists to showcase their diverse artistic abilities and to finance the festival. So I write a lot of grants and I am in charge of individual campaigns and in making sure that people understand the benefit of Minnesota Fringe in our theater community, which includes being the bedrock of part of what's going on here in the performing arts scene. We have artists on our stages that have never been on stage before. They could be citizen artists. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And we have professional artists who are, um, making work all around town all the time and everything in between. So we help artists of all types, uh, no matter where they are in the artistic spectrum, uh, get their work staged in a, an affordable way. And for an audience that is really hungry for this kind of work,
Speaker 1 00:33:26 For those who don't have an idea of what the fringe is, I'm not sure how they couldn't, but for those who don't, can you talk a little bit about the difference between the Fringe and like just a play you'd go see at, I don't know, like the Guthrie or something?
Speaker 5 00:33:40 Sure. I like to think of the Fringe as the, uh, gateway drug to the Performable Arts <laugh> <laugh>. It's a, it is a digestible, simple, affordable way to check out a variety of different performing art styles. So we have every genre you can think of, whether it's Dance horror, Shakespeare, uh, improv, clowning, standup. It's all there at the fringe for you to select. Each show is one hour long, and then you have 30 minutes in between shows if you wanna go see something else. Our shows are concentrated this year in the Cedar Riverside neighborhood. So it is just a five or 10 minute walk from one seat to another. And the price at the door is $19 or $18 online in advance with some other options for cheaper and free tickets. If you, uh, buy a multi show pass or you do some volunteering for us. Ah, so typically people show up and take in maybe a course of like four shows, which you can do in one night over or over the whole 11 days of the festival, and just get a sampling of what they might see if they go to, uh, a regular theater, which is usually something that's curated, something that is purposeful, um, for the theme of that theater and could be two to three hours long. So this is nice and bite sized.
Speaker 1 00:35:03 When does the fringe run From
Speaker 5 00:35:06 August 3rd through August 13th this year, it's usually at the end of July, or very beginning of August. And it has been for 30 years now.
Speaker 1 00:35:17 Uh, are the, so the dates are about the same every year?
Speaker 5 00:35:21 Yes. About the same.
Speaker 1 00:35:23 How many, um, shows are we having this year?
Speaker 5 00:35:26 This year there are 102 shows. 101 of them take place in theaters, and one of them is a self-guided tour of the West Bank, which is where we are centered the festival this year. The maximum number shows any Patron can see is 55 or 56 if you do the, the, uh, the self-guided tour in your own time.
Speaker 1 00:35:49 And so you brought it up, uh, at the beginning, but will you be doing a hybrid or is it all come and see?
Speaker 5 00:35:57 Well, the one good thing I can even think of that's come out of the pandemic is that we have taken the opportunity to video our shows that are performed live during the festival, and then we put on a second festival in September called The Hangover.
Speaker 1 00:36:13 Oh, cool. <laugh>,
Speaker 5 00:36:14 That's Aply named from our fringe fanatics that go to so many shows. But since I mentioned earlier, you cannot see them all. Uh, this is an opportunity for folks to see the shows they missed or maybe see a show that they really liked and wanted to see again. And it's all done online. We videotaped the performances and then we post another festival online and all 100% of the ticket proceeds go to the artists on the online festival.
Speaker 1 00:36:40 That is awesome. Do you have an idea, like, I know this, the Fringe happens in other states?
Speaker 5 00:36:47 Yes, actually the Fringe happens all over the world. It started in 1947 in Scotland, and now there are more than 250 fringes worldwide. Last year, my staff and I got to go to the World Fringe Congress and meet people from all over the world that provide fringes. The one thing that we all have in common is that our performances are selected by chance. So here in Minnesota, it is literally a bingo cage with a bunch of ping pong balls and it with numbers on it. So I don't even know who is in the fringe until about April or May. Some places it's first come, first serve, but we all don't curate our festivals, nor do we jury them or judge the artists. We just provide the platforms so people can perform.
Speaker 1 00:37:31 That's pretty cool, actually. So how many artists do you have an idea of how many artists travel, um, to, because I know that some artists will go from Fringe to Fringe to do other shows. Um, yes. I was just wondering if there's an idea of how many
Speaker 5 00:37:50 Yes. About 15% of the artists that participate in Minnesota Fringe come from either greater Minnesota or outside of the state. We have a special lottery for them called the Touring Artist Lottery, where you basically get a two for one opportunity to perform in our fringe because we wanna hold space for people in Greater Minnesota and for those professional touring artists that make a summer junket to just send, send themselves all over North America. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 00:38:16 Talk a little bit about how one can get themselves into the fringe.
Speaker 5 00:38:23 Oh, well, applications open every December 1st, and they usually run through February 15th. And it's a very small fee, about $30 just for an administrative fee. And you mm-hmm. <affirmative> enter a lottery based on the, uh, size of the theater that you want to play in. So we have small, medium, large, and extra large theaters. So it depends on your, your comfort level. And then if you are a Bipo artist, you can enter a lottery that is pay what you can. So it could be free or it could be $5 or $10, whatever works for you. And you also get a two for one chance. And this is part of our, um, we reserve 10% of the festival for the Bipo artists and at least 10% of the festival for touring artists, because we really feel like there's great value in, in, uh, giving voices to people who have traditionally been marginalized and also giving opportunities to people who live outside of the Twin Cities to share their good work with us.
Speaker 1 00:39:20 And so the people will know that they are in the fringe by when, usually
Speaker 5 00:39:27 By the end of February, we hold a lottery and it's a public lottery, and anyone can see it online, or they can come in person and we pull the pinging pong balls out and whoever is, uh, pulled first gets the first opportunity. But we pull every single ball out of that bingo cage and make a wait list because people tend to drop out of the festival. And, uh, and then we just give the opportunity to the next person. Ah, we've had as, as, uh, let's see, I think two or three days ago we had a new artist enter the festival because somebody else dropped out for whatever reason. Sometimes people just, their plans change, or maybe they apply in December and then find out, oh, I'm, I'm gonna have a baby in August, <laugh>, or something like that. So whoopsie, uh, yeah, things happen like that. And, and, uh, of course with Covid, that has also been, uh, something that we have to keep an eye on. If artists suddenly their whole cast and crew gets sick and they can't perform, we don't wanna have a dark stage, we want to have people in there. So we've brought people out of the lottery even during the festival sometimes.
Speaker 1 00:40:31 Oh, wow. I think I was one of those last minute people that ended up being in the festival one time. Oh my goodness. Um, because people, somebody dropped and, uh, the person who wrote the place said, surprise, you're gonna be in it. I'm like, oh, uhoh.
Speaker 5 00:40:46 <laugh>. Wow.
Speaker 1 00:40:47 Yeah. It was, uh, quite an experience for me. I really, I really did enjoy it, but I'm not really a writer, so I'm waiting for the next person to write a play that I can be in, in the fringe <laugh>.
Speaker 5 00:40:56 Okay. You heard it all here on K F I F A F K F A I first. That's looking for a show.
Speaker 1 00:41:03 That's right. <laugh>. Um, I know the Fringe often has a s l captioning and audio description. And, um, I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about them. I know audio description is when somebody's sitting there and audio describing the show so that people know who's on stage, you know, what they might be wearing or what they're doing if it's silent. But I always get mixed up with, um, a s L and captioning. Maybe you could discuss those two. Sure.
Speaker 5 00:41:32 A s l is for, uh, patrons who use sign language, whether or not that, that there's her primary language. Uh, so we will have a, a professional sitting up near the front of the stage interpreting the show mm-hmm. <affirmative> and have them well lit. And then we can also help patrons sit so that they can see the a s l provider, um, so that they can enjoy the entire show. And then open captioning is when we, uh, put the script through a software program and then project it onto a, uh, a small screen so you can read along as the script is, um, being, uh, performed by the performers so that if, if you are hard of hearing or you don't, uh, know, a s l, that you can still enjoy the show. Um, and we're really proud of our accessibility provisions. We have a, a standard where it's a minimum of 15% of shows will receive accessibility services this year, I think it's 25%. Oh,
Speaker 1 00:42:31 Excellent.
Speaker 5 00:42:31 Yep. And we, um, we offer patrons who wanna attend those shows a reservation at no charge. They'll still pay for the ticket, but we can guarantee them a seat in that performance because we know that it is few and far between where people can, um, see so many different performances that have the accessibility services that they need. We further outline on our access page of our website shows that are non-verbal, so they can be enjoyed, uh, by folks without, uh, a s l or open captioning, but maybe it's just a dance show or a clowning show that it's non nonverbal. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So we have some opportunities there as well. And we, um, employ about 15, um, providers, access providers each year. And we hope that they share the ability to see so many shows in such a short, compressed period of time with, um, clients that they work with. Um, but we try to set them up so that you can go to shows back to back and you don't have to travel between theaters to see them, just to make it easier to, uh, get a compressed, uh, schedule in as a patron.
Speaker 1 00:43:42 And, um, you said this year, 25% of the shows are, have these provisions.
Speaker 5 00:43:48 Yes. Yep. Indeed.
Speaker 1 00:43:50 Um, is the goal to work up to more and more each year? Or how is that determined?
Speaker 5 00:43:54 Yes. Yeah. It is a part of our budget every year. So it is not, uh, reliant on special funding mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but occasionally we will ask for special funding when it's available, and then we can increase the number of shows. But I think that, um, the performing arts is for everyone, and I would like everyone to have the opportunity to enjoy that.
Speaker 1 00:44:15 So, uh, I guess do each show have the same amount of audio descriptions as opposed to captioning? And, um, ASLs,
Speaker 5 00:44:28 Uh, there is, I wish I had these numbers right at my fingertips, but on our access page, which is Minnesota fringe.org/ 2023 slash access, it lists all of the shows out. Um, but there's about, uh, 15 shows with, uh, a S L and maybe 17 shows with audio description and then maybe another half dozen shows that are non-verbal. Uh, this year, unfortunately, we were unable to secure an open captioning machine, and I'm very disappointed about that because I use open caption 'cause I only hear out of one ear mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and so especially when it's songs an accent, um, or a large cast, it's hard for me to keep track. And so I really miss the open captioning this year, but we have written a grant to try to get our own open captioning machine next year so that we don't have to rely on the generosity of other theaters. Yes.
Speaker 1 00:45:21 That is the secret, isn't it? It
Speaker 5 00:45:23 Is. The equipment is not inexpensive and, uh, but it's worth the investment just so that the performing arts is available to everyone.
Speaker 1 00:45:33 And as you say, you know, the the captioning has is a machine that does it, but I do know that a s l and audio description can be pretty expensive for having people do that. Tell me again, who flips the bill for that?
Speaker 5 00:45:48 We just build that into our budget. We, it's a, it's a tenant, it's a core tenant of what we believe in, that art should be accessible to everyone. So we just pay for that out of our budget and make a plan for that every year.
Speaker 1 00:46:00 Are the shows held at the same theaters each year?
Speaker 5 00:46:04 Um, we have been centering around the Cedar Riverside neighborhood, so the three stages in the University of Minnesota, two stages at Augsburg University, mixed Blood Theater in the Round and the Southern Theater. They have all been a part of our stages, uh, for almost the entire 30 years. There are a few other stages around town as well that we have used, but we're really concentrating on the Cedar Riverside neighborhood this year and trying to, uh, really embed ourselves into the people who live and work there. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 00:46:37 Um, are all of the theaters accessible?
Speaker 5 00:46:42 100% of the theaters managed by friends are always accessible for people with mobility disabilities. Uh, we are usually, I think every theater is, uh, uh, serviced by, uh, Metro Mobility. And if a patron needs help, we have made a, a, an arrangement with a taxi service that can help patrons with mobility disabilities get to and from the shows on our Dine.
Speaker 1 00:47:09 Now you Wow. That's pretty generous actually. Um, how can somebody find out more about the Fringe and how they wanna buy tickets and things like that?
Speaker 5 00:47:19 Uh, I think you can go to Minnesota fringe.org and, uh, find the festival listing. And there are a lot of shows that you can sort through by location, by genre, by content, or if you're here to support a first time producer or a touring artist, you can find those as well. And if you are specifically looking for access shows, our accessibility page is Minnesota fringe.org/ 2023 slash access. If anyone needs help getting reservations made, they can contact us at
[email protected].
Speaker 1 00:47:53 Excellent. So you, you said a, a a while back that the pandemic really played a little bit of havoc on the theater stuff. Um, is it, has it come back as much now? Are you still working up from it?
Speaker 5 00:48:10 We're definitely still working up. Um, more than 50% of our total budget every year is earned during the festival. And, um, and not only that, but we, we turn 70% of all ticket sales directly to the artists. So not only did we earn, did we not earn what we normally do, um, our income was cut by about 90% in terms of the festival, but we were unable to pay the artists, the technicians, the front of house staff, the people who are 10 99 giggers in the theater industry, the normal, um, over $150,000 that we pay out every year. So everyone suffered during the pandemic. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, audiences last year, which is our first year back into the theaters, were about 58% of what we would normally see. But judging from other things I've read in the theater industry, there was a recently an article in the New York Times and also an article in the American Theater Magazine that we are not atypical.
Speaker 5 00:49:08 I've also talked to other fringe leaders, and this is just what's going on right now. People found other things to do during the pandemic, hello Netflix <laugh>, and, uh, and they've forgotten a little bit. So we're hopeful that we're gonna come back, but that is one of the reasons why we shrunk the festival because it gives artists an opportunity individually to earn a little bit more money. And my belief is that bigger isn't better, but better is better. So I'd rather better serve the patrons and the artists than to have a whole bunch of empty theaters around town.
Speaker 1 00:49:41 And, you know, the Covid is not gone. So I, I think there are still some people who are nervous about it, and now, you know, everything's been dropped in regards to masking and stuff, and it is up to that individual what they do. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I, I still think there are people who are nervous about, you know, bigger crowds or not going into a theater, not knowing how crowded it's gonna be, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 5 00:50:06 Right, right. And absolutely we do have some masks available at our box office locations if people are wanting to use them. Uh, we have. Well,
Speaker 1 00:50:15 That's good to know.
Speaker 5 00:50:16 Yep. We do have a generous location. Our theaters themselves, uh, there are no Covid protocols, uh, right mandated, and that's just kind of where we're at right now. But I also know that there are people out there with immunocompromised, um, bodies for other reasons entirely, and they have to be extra precautious. We're hopeful that they would take advantage of the Fringe hangover and watch the shows in September if they're not comfortable going to the theater.
Speaker 1 00:50:43 Um, so how do you decide if you're going to increase the number of shows that you host?
Speaker 5 00:50:50 I think we just have to look at market demand. If, if I'm not feeling, you know, 50% of the seats of the theaters we've rented, then we're not ready to expand. And, um, but one of the things that we have done this year is, is partnered with theaters like Strike in Phoenix, where they have put, uh, people in their theaters, even though we are not renting their theater, they have a cadre of folks in their theaters that they normally work with mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so there's a, a, you could go to their theaters as part of the Fringe Festival. All of our ticketing is the same there. And, uh, see a few shows in a row at each of those theaters. And that way we were able to expand the festival beyond our original eight theaters this year to actually 16 different locations, uh, without having to rent those theaters out and hope that we could find enough artists to participate.
Speaker 1 00:51:42 You know, that Fringe hangover is really a brilliant idea. And I wonder, are other states doing that?
Speaker 5 00:51:48 Yeah, I've talked to other fringe festivals and some of them are broadcasting live. Uh, so they, that you can watch the performance as it happens for us and our small team, because we only have 2.5 full-time employees normally in the fringe. Uh, it's, it's a little hard to manage that, so Right. Doing an offshoot and really the name Hangover came from me seeing patrons post online. Uh, after the Fringe was over, they kept saying that they felt like they had a hangover because they saw many shows <laugh>. So I guess we're just providing the hair of the dog that bit them, as they say.
Speaker 1 00:52:24 And so tell me again, in September, how long does the Hangover last?
Speaker 5 00:52:29 It's just another 11 day festival, but it's entirely online and accessible through our website.
Speaker 1 00:52:35 And so people can find out, um, yes. Great.
Speaker 5 00:52:40 And we, uh, this year we, uh, are going to put captions on our Fringe hangover shows so that people can decide if they Oh, good. Feel better with the closed caption. Uh, so I in fact, just sent an email this morning, solidifying that contract and, and we're really excited to offer that. I personally use captions all the time when I'm watching mm-hmm. <affirmative> something on TV or online. So I hope that this expands our ability to provide access services to patrons with disabilities.
Speaker 1 00:53:10 What do you want to see for the future of a fringe?
Speaker 5 00:53:13 I would love to see new people come and check it out and just, just get a taste of what the performing arts is like. Even if you've never been to a theater show, fringe is such a welcoming place. We really throw those theater doors wide open for folks. You don't have to be dressed up in something fancy. You can come in your shorts and t-shirts, you can come for one show or stay for six and, um, bring a friend. And it's really fun. The camaraderie in between shows between audience and artists members is really exciting. I know that when I would attend Fringe as an audience member before I worked here, I thought it was pretty cool when I would see an artist on stage enjoy their work, and then the next show I was standing in line for, they'd be right behind me seeing it as well. <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:53:58 Yes. And I presume you have them kind of, um, categorized. So like if you wanted to bring your kids to a family show, you could do that.
Speaker 5 00:54:07 Yes. On every show page that describes a festival show, there is content warnings and age appropriateness to help you decide if that show would be right for you.
Speaker 1 00:54:17 I actually feel like this is a great way to introduce your kids to theater because it's one hour, right? Yeah. Yeah. And not two, two and a half or three. And I think the rules are less stringent. And so it'd be great for kids to be able to go and sit for just an hour and, you know, kind of get that love of theater.
Speaker 5 00:54:39 Yeah. I think I, I think if everyone got bit by the theater bug, that would be good for the entire community because Minneapolis and St. Paul are full of theaters and I know everyone's wanting the audiences to come back to pre pandemic levels.
Speaker 1 00:54:54 Yeah. It really did knock that, that particular, um, industry down.
Speaker 5 00:55:00 I think it did. It did.
Speaker 1 00:55:02 Well, Dawn, thank you so much. I, is there anything else you'd like to leave us with?
Speaker 5 00:55:07 No, I just thank you for having me on. It's always a pleasure to be here and to talk to the K F A I audience every year.
Speaker 1 00:55:13 Well, we thank you and I hope to get out, if not to the actual theater, to the Hangover to see.
Speaker 5 00:55:19 I'll send you a link. I'll send you a link. That'd be great. Okay.
Speaker 1 00:55:22 Thank you so much. Alright.
Speaker 5 00:55:24 Thank you, Sam.
Speaker 1 00:55:25 You take care.
Speaker 1 00:55:28 This has been Disability and Progress. The views expressed on the show are not necessarily those of K F A I or Board of Directors. My name is Sam, I'm the host of this show. Charlene Doll is my research woman. Miguel Vargas engineered these two episodes. Erin is our podcaster. If you'd like to hear more about what we do, you may email me at Disability and
[email protected]. It will give you a chance to give some hopefully feedback and also to suggest things that you would like to see on disability and progress. Remember that this show will be archived for two weeks after the airing and that it will be podcasted almost immediately after the airing. So always easy to ask your smart speaker to play the latest version of Disability and Progress.
Speaker 6 00:56:22 Thank you so much for listening. Take care.
