Disability and Progress- February 27, 2025- Gaelynn Lea and Kevin Kling

[00:00:00] Speaker A: KPI. [00:00:31] Speaker B: Sad. Thank you for joining Disability and Progress, where we bring you insights into ideas is about and discussions on disability topics. My name is Sam. I'm the host of this show. Thanks so much for tuning in. Charlene Dahl is my research PR person. Hello, Charlene. Hello, everybody. [00:01:15] Speaker A: We're excited to have this interview. [00:01:19] Speaker B: We love all our interviews, but this one is particularly awesome. For February 27, 2025, we have in the station where we have with us Galen Lee and Jeremy, her guitarist, I believe, also hopefully Kevin Kling. Hello, everyone. [00:01:41] Speaker A: Hey. Can you hear us? [00:01:42] Speaker B: I can hear you. Can you hear me? [00:01:45] Speaker A: Yay. Hi. We're here. Yay. Hello. [00:01:49] Speaker B: Hi. Reminds me of that phone commercial. Can you hear me now? [00:01:57] Speaker A: That's how it works. [00:01:58] Speaker B: That's how it works. Well, thank you so much for joining us, you guys. This is exciting. I appreciate you coming on. We're going to be talking about many things tonight. One of them is the play that's happening at Open Eye Theater from The, I believe, March 6th to the 15th, that's called invisible Fences. And we'll be talking about that play along with Galen Lee and Kevin Kling and her guitarist, Jeremy. I apologize, Jeremy. It was just too much for expectation for me to tell my brain to remember how to pronounce your last name. Go for it. It's a lot of letters. [00:02:37] Speaker C: It's Ilva Soccer. [00:02:39] Speaker B: Thank you. Anyway, we're excited to have you all on, and we're going to be talking about a lot of things, including a lot of interesting things on the disability community. So thanks so much. I'd like to start out by having Galen and Kevin, if you guys could just humor me for a minute. We know you, but there are probably listeners, since this is a global show, that don't know you. And could you just give me a minute or so description, like just a little bit about each of you. [00:03:09] Speaker C: Okay. Galen said go ahead and start. So this is Kevin Kling, and I'm a local playwright and author and storyteller and worked here a lot at OpenEye Theater, where we are quite a bit. But I've also worked at the Guthrie and Frank theater and 10,000 things and the Jungle, a lot of theaters around town and traveled the country as a storyteller. Actually traveled the world as a storyteller and author and. And now disability advocate, which I'm loving. [00:03:45] Speaker B: Galen? [00:03:48] Speaker A: Oh, yes, that would be you. I'm Galen. I am Galen Lee. I'm a violinist and a songwriter and a disability activist. And Kevin and I met in 2016 at a show or At a performance kind of conference thing we were both doing. And he asked if we could collaborate on a show outside where we each traded off songs and stories. And we really liked working together. So he asked about Invisible Fence. This isn't a. We ended up creating a whole play together. PR Music, Tiny Desk. Even though I had already been playing around Minnesota for about 10 years. But that kind of launched a national international touring jaunt that went through the pan like up until the Pandemic. Basically gotten into some other things like theater. Since then, it's been a very interesting journey of activism and art. [00:04:49] Speaker B: So I am very proud to tell my listeners that I interviewed Galen Lee when she was not too long after you started touring around and was thrilled to be able to do that. And I think your music is fascinating. And so I have such. It's just one of my points of pride. Haha. I interviewed her a long time before this. [00:05:20] Speaker A: Yes, you are one of the early ones. It's true. [00:05:22] Speaker B: Yes. Talk to me a little bit about the whole Invisible Fences. So what about this? What inspired you to do it? [00:05:36] Speaker A: Well, you know, Kevin wanted to do a kind of show together. And we had talked about maybe trading off songs and fables, but we started researching fables about disability and they all suck, basically, is what we learned. The messages were very negative, even if they seemed positive on the surface. And so we started talking about what, you know, what would you create if you made a fable? What would you be? And I knew right away that I. I always like to pretend that I. That I'm like a little woodland creature that lives in a hole. And Kevin's like, I think I'd be a grasshopper. And that was actually kind of how the show started. And. And then we wanted to make it really accessible, like kind of radically accessible. And so Jeremy came in because not only did we need a guitarist to accompany the music, because I'm not looping in this play, I'm just playing because I'm acting too. So I'm bouncing in between music and stage. But then we wanted to make it really accessible. So he's actually an audio describer, but he's positioned as a narrator, so I don't think the audience knows. But if you don't have the ability to see what's happening on stage, you will know what's happening because of the way Jeremy describes all the visuals. As a storyteller, it's really fun to have. And then we have ASL at every performance and we have captions above the stage. So we really made it A fable about disability that includes disability in the way it's made. Kevin, do you want to add anything? I think I just said a lot. Sorry. [00:07:18] Speaker C: No, I think that you really got it right. We wanted to make it so that anything audio described was actually part of the script, so it was actually part of the play. So the play moves forward even as things are being described, so that the action keeps going. And it's a kind of a point of pride that we never break the through line of the piece, and yet at the same time, we're making it as accessible as we possibly can to everyone. [00:07:47] Speaker B: You know, I have to say that's really cool because oftentimes, you know me that uses audio description. I have to go and try to find the date that's audio described. And it's a big pain in the patootie because, you know, like, what if it doesn't? Like, I have a life too. Excuse you? What if it doesn't line up with my life? Like, I don't want to have to always set aside this date because you decided that was the date you wanted to have an audio describer. And I. Oftentimes, I mean, if you're lucky, shows give you two, but oftentimes you only get one. And to have it always audio described is. I think this is the way it should be. You should get to pick your dates that line up with your life and be able to go when you want to go. And it sounds like you've done exactly that. So kudos to you. I give you a lot of hats off for that one. [00:08:46] Speaker C: We had a night where three people came. They were a family, two women and their daughter. And the two women had disabilities and the daughter was a little kid. And they said, this is the first time there's been a play. We can all three go to everybody. You know, everybody had their own experience, but also the same experience. [00:09:09] Speaker B: I wonder if you could talk a little bit about what some of the themes you explore in this Invisible Fences. [00:09:19] Speaker A: Well, I mean, disability is a big one. And Kevin and I come at it from different places because I was born with my disability. I've never walked. And it's a genetic mutation. And so Kevin can speak for himself in a moment. But, like, I wanted my character to be that. Like, I am a green platypus. So I can't say it's an autobiography, but it kind of is. That's a big theme, is how different people. Because that's the thing is disability isn't one thing. And so how do you get different experiences of disability in there. And then aging is a big theme. Death, friendship, battling the bad guy, which also happens to be Jeremy. We gave Jeremy. [00:10:05] Speaker B: Poor Jeremy. [00:10:07] Speaker A: Everyone but us is Jeremy. Right, Jeremy. [00:10:11] Speaker C: Jeremy signed up to play the guitar. [00:10:14] Speaker A: I mean, my husband is actually the guy, so it's kind of fun. My husband Paul also got roped into this. We really. We did some roping. We didn't realize how much. We were like, oh, it's just gonna be the two of us. And then we're like, no, we need. We need extra people. So Paul's the body on stage, the actor. He does all the physical stuff. And then Jeremy's reading Paul's lines. It's very fun. It's a very unique take, but I think those are the main themes that I can think about. But what about you? And, you know, again, the way we portrayed disability was intentionally reflective of our experiences. [00:10:49] Speaker C: Right. And not only the difference in disability and difference, but also in the kind of people we are. Like, the grasshopper's only alive when he's with his swarm. So he's somebody that needs community. He needs to be surrounded by his people. And Galen's character, the Largroff, is very. She's a happily a loner. She really loves her life in the woods by herself. And what we find, both of us, in this journey, is that we are stretched into the other person's lifestyle. And so she has to become a community person. And I have to know what it's like to be on my own. And so it's challenges that we face not only as people with disabilities, but people as people, you know? So. [00:11:34] Speaker B: Yeah, I wonder that the name Invisible Fences is interesting. And I wonder if you could tell me, like, how you came up with that and actually what that name to you means. [00:11:49] Speaker A: Well, we kind of felt like, at least at the beginning. Well, a, we named it very early in the process, so that's one thing. And second of all, you know, the idea that the stories you tell yourself sometimes kind of limit who you believe you can be. And so with disability is. Is it a real barrier? Is it a barrier? Sometimes it is. Sometimes it's a literal barrier, like an actual barrier, because society is set up in a way that doesn't want to be inclusive. But sometimes the barrier is the view that you have of the issue. Right. And so sometimes the barrier can be moved, like, like, you know, or like not. Or not even move, but, like, it only has as much weight as you. [00:12:32] Speaker C: Give it, sometimes both either self imposed or imposed by somebody who Put up a structure that doesn't really exist. And that's what we find. We take a journey to the underworld and we find that this character that's preventing us from moving forward is just a tiny mole. But we can't see that because it's in the dark. And so it's, it's. And so we don't know that it's a mole, but it's like we believe this character because he's got a really deep voice, for one thing. And, you know, sometimes it's an imposing character that makes us think we don't have more of a power than. Yeah, so that's in there too. So the fences that are invisible are both self imposed and imposed by a culture that, you know, that wants to hold us back. [00:13:24] Speaker B: What do you want audiences to take away from this? [00:13:31] Speaker C: Mostly what is in their own lives, like invisible fences they face. I think that both Galen and I are really dedicated to the connection that, that we have that. Well, for one thing, I had to explain disability a lot less after the pandemic because people suddenly knew what it was like to live in a world that wasn't built for them. [00:13:55] Speaker B: Right. [00:13:56] Speaker C: And so I didn't have to explain a lot of things that before the pandemic, I did have to explain. And so part of this show is that, you know, we all go through these experiences and it. And it isn't a matter of ability, it's a matter of being human. [00:14:13] Speaker A: Yeah. And for me, I guess I want people to see the universality of the human experience. Right. And so sometimes your disability might be a unique scenario, but people relate to the things that our characters go through, whether or not they have a disability. Because really, and this is something I've been thinking about for a long time, is your disability is just a microcosm of the human experience. Getting sick, getting old, having things not be built for you. Those are things every person experiences. They just don't recognize it in themselves until it becomes really obvious to them. [00:14:53] Speaker B: Until it affects us. It's like tell it affects them. They, they. Yeah, once it affects them, you know, like we're all. [00:15:01] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And like, you know, we're all gonna die. Right. And so like, sorry, not that. What a great interview. But anyways, like, we're, we're all gonna go. And I think it's easy to pretend like you're not, when, when you don't have to think about it. But as a disabled person, at least for me, like, I have a disability where I can break bones at any moment. And so, like, it's just been. My mortality has been kind of in front of me longer than most people my age. And it doesn't mean it's like. It's just like if you can show the world that, like, it's okay to look at these things, it's okay to experience this. And actually you should, because we all do. We just pretend that we don't. [00:15:44] Speaker B: Right. [00:15:44] Speaker A: So I think the reason we made them animals rather than people is people don't want to identify with disability, which makes me sad. I wish that people understood. It's all part of the. [00:15:55] Speaker B: It is very sad. [00:15:56] Speaker A: People don't want to identify with disability, but they might identify with a grasshopper or a green platypus and then on accident, like, realize that they have something in common with disability experience. Does that make sense? [00:16:11] Speaker B: That does. I wonder if you can talk a little bit about the process of developing the script. [00:16:19] Speaker A: Ooh, yes. [00:16:21] Speaker C: That was fun. [00:16:21] Speaker A: It was so fun. So we met a couple times in these little intensives where we tried to kind of build plots and then we would scrap things and then we would resurrect things and eventually it all ended up on a Google Doc that we would add to. I would add to it between the hours of 2am and 5am and then Kevin would wake up. [00:16:44] Speaker C: I'm an old guy, so I get up at 5. [00:16:47] Speaker A: So we would see each other for about a 20 minute period in the Google Doc together. And then I'd go to bed and he'd keep working. And so we wrote it kind of like literally about half and half. We just kind of like built out different scenes. And it's really fun. The scenes that Jeremy's in, the bird. He's a bird named Brad. The Jeremy scenes, Kevin wrote this really fun dialogue where I'm translating for the bird, but I'm not telling Kevin what I'm really saying. And it's all goofy. There's a lot of flair of each of our personalities in the different scenes. [00:17:24] Speaker C: Galen had this idea for the Largroff, which is her character that she. So she wrote her. She wrote her character. It's just absolutely brilliant because it's not a character that's ever existed in literature. So she's breaking some new ground here. [00:17:41] Speaker B: Excellent. [00:17:42] Speaker C: It's just. It's incredible. And so she would bring what the larograph would say and then I would bring what the grasshopper would say. And I don't even know how it worked, to be quite honest. I can't even remember the lines I. [00:17:55] Speaker A: Wrote Anymore because they blend together. [00:17:58] Speaker C: We just hit it off. It was. I've never had an experience like it in my life. [00:18:03] Speaker A: And you know what's fun is Kevin's grasshopper. Because Kevin's such a literary guy. Like, every time you talk to him, he brings up like some Greek myth and you're like, what is happening? And so his grasshopper eats books and he digests them. So he has tons of knowledge of every book. And it's kind of actually who you are. I mean, literally. But it's awesome. It's really fun. So, I mean, yeah, our characters came out and then the plot kind of just happened and we. It was a really fun process to write it. I didn't know. I've never written a play. And I really thought that when we started on this project that he was going to write the whole thing and I was just going to play some songs. And so the co writing was new to me, but a really fun experience. [00:18:50] Speaker C: Galen's brilliant. I mean, just brilliant. [00:18:52] Speaker A: And Karen is obviously a genius. So it's. I hope people come see it because it's very family friendly, it's accessible. It's also like all ages, though. Like people of all different walks of life have been really getting a lot out of it. [00:19:06] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [00:19:07] Speaker A: And I just really want people to come experience the show and music. [00:19:11] Speaker C: You're not going to believe. Galen and Jeremy just. It's a whole nother. It's a whole nother perspective on not just this experience, but. But what Galen's music brings to it. It's just unbelievable. And that was one thing I wanted to mention is that including in the last segment that we were talking about, one of the things that disability brings to the arts is a perspective. And as an artist, you're always looking, what kind of perspective can I bring? What can I add to the pantheon of the arts, to this generation, but to generations to come, to ones that have come before us? And this. And the perspective of disability is one. I mean, it's tried and true. Shakespeare clear back. But we really get to add something to that pantheon and to a new perspective to the arts. And I think so that people can come to the play with an appreciation of the arts and get another form that they haven't experienced. [00:20:13] Speaker B: Right. I. If I. I think I'm not mistaken, I believe this is your second time around with this play. Is that right? Third. Oh, I'm so sorry. Well, I'm proud to say that I'm gonna be there this time. I'm gonna get to see Anton And Charlene will be with me. I wonder what made you come back and, you know, what made you want to do it again. [00:20:42] Speaker A: I mean, it's really uplifting and fun for us. And also, the last time we did it, we were basically finishing writing it and then doing it right away, and we got to do it in Duluth in November, and that felt really good because we had kind of been able to. We had more time to digest it and work with it. And the last time we did it here, we had six shows, and they were sold out before. Before it started, actually. So, like, oh, my gosh, we really wanted to be able to do it for audiences again. And it's already really selling well. Like, one of the shows is already sold out, and it's not even open yet. So it just felt like the right thing to do. [00:21:21] Speaker C: It's. And it's so fun to do. We just laugh our heads off. It's so fun. And for the audience, I just. I. I'm just in heaven when I'm on stage with these two, so. Oh, yeah, I. That. It's not a. Not a hard decision to jump back in. [00:21:37] Speaker B: I wonder if you guys have thought. Well, you guys have probably thought about most everything, so I'm gonna put this out there. One of the things that happens sometimes is there's just an amazing, dynamite show that comes out, but it's like half the world never gets to see it because we're so. Talk about, you know, we're not limitless. We're so bound. Right. We don't have the invisible fence. So I wonder if you've thought about somehow doing an online version that people can pay to see and putting that out there and that they. Then you can show it all over. [00:22:16] Speaker A: The world, you know, just putting it out there. We actually did record it in July of 2023. We have a really nice video with captions of the show, and that's. That's not public yet because we, you know, like, we didn't know exactly what the future of the show would look like, and we didn't want to release it publicly, but I could see that happening someday. We also have a really good audio recording of the one that we did in November. So we are kind of mindful that, like, hopefully there'll be a future, that we can keep doing it in other places. I'm about to release a book, so I think there'll be a little break here for a while. But, I mean, it's so much fun. It's really hard to think about. We will Probably. I mean, I can't imagine that we won't do it again. But we do have the video and the audio because we do want it to be, like, taken and have it available for other people in the future to watch it. [00:23:11] Speaker C: Right. Or people that don't have the access to get to the theater. [00:23:14] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:23:16] Speaker C: That is something. We created it because we know there are people that can't get here. So, you know, let's. Let's make it available. [00:23:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:26] Speaker B: Well, I hope that that's the case. I just want you to recognize that I was a supporter, you know, certainly after you guys. But, you know, know that I was thinking of it. I know. [00:23:41] Speaker A: That's good to hear. [00:23:42] Speaker B: I wonder if you could talk a little bit about how, Galen. How your music plays into the role in the production. [00:23:54] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, since it's essentially autobiographical of each of us. The Largraph really likes to sing, and that's, like, part of her thing. And so we were like, well, we're gonna put these songs in. And we picked out the songs ahead of time and kind of placed them throughout the show. But. But because. Yeah, because I'm not going to be looping and sitting there in one spot. We. We decided to add Jeremy to play guitar and the music. I think the whole point and the goal was that each song kind of ties into the scene that just preceded it. And it's. And we did it intentionally, but there was something sort of magical where it ties in on many more levels than I even thought. Like, I mean, it's still. Sometimes I'm like, oh, my gosh. I'll notice something about the song that I didn't notice before fitting exactly the scene that had just happened. So, I mean, the music really does fit for some reason, and I don't think we can even really take credit for how the music fits in the show. It really does feel. It's hard. I don't want to be too cheesy, but it really feels like the show almost wrote itself and wanted to exist because a lot of the things that happened with it felt so un. So natural that you're like, how did that end up fitting so well? Right. That's how I feel about it, anyways. [00:25:18] Speaker C: Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's one of those lucky. I don't even know. It's that synchronicity that happens when you know you're on the right track. The Greeks called it Keros. Sorry, there's the. [00:25:29] Speaker A: See, there you go. There you go. He didn't leave us, but he just did it? [00:25:34] Speaker B: Digestion of books. Exactly. Excellent. I like it. I'd like to hear one of the songs. So we're gonna play the song the long way around first, but I want to have you kind of set it up. What is this about? [00:25:52] Speaker A: This song is about friendship. Friendship that takes work or friendship where there has been struggle, but you make it through to the other side. I wrote this about a certain. A friendship that had just gone through some turbulent periods. And then we made it out and we were closer than before in the play. You know, we're kind of halfway through our journey at this point, and we had just come out of the dark from a tunnel and fought the under the underworld. So it kind of fits into play that way. When two souls meet and the whole world feels new Shared moment sweet all colors bright and true and there is laughter and there are good things growing everywhere And I'm happy to be in this place And I'm happy to be in this place. You let it out. You laid it off across the table. What's this about? And you're making me unstable And I don't wanna go down this road with you no, I don't want to go down this road I want to go but I can't and I won't over to sew up the wounds that I bro open with you. Cause I knew and I chose And I don't feel at home in this world anymore No, I don't feel at home in this world we rein it in and there is better understanding Nobody wins if there is flight without and we learn to keep our hearts in time Try not to burn the careful ties that bind us together And I'm taking the long way around with you And I'm taking the long way around And I'm happy to be in this place with you And I'm taking the long way around. [00:30:10] Speaker B: That is such a beautiful song. [00:30:13] Speaker A: Oh, thanks so much. [00:30:16] Speaker B: You know, I never really listened super closely to the words, and they really are, I think, moving. And speaking of moving. Yes, it'd be interesting. I'm interested to know if you could each pick a particular moment in the play that most resonated with you, what would it be? [00:30:39] Speaker C: Whoa, there's so many. Yeah. Well, there's a moment for me, it seems like a simple one, but there's a moment when we're in the underworld where we're in really a lot of danger and we start cracking each other up. We do these kind of terrible jokes, and it's the way it's such a window into our friendship. And to me, it is such a play about friendship. And when we're both laughing under those circumstances, it's only what really good friends would do. And so for me, that's a really big moment and really a window into our characters. [00:31:25] Speaker A: I didn't know that. That's cute. I didn't realize that. Jamie, do you have anything that comes to mind? [00:31:32] Speaker C: No, you go first. [00:31:33] Speaker A: He's thinking, I guess for me, you know, grasshoppers don't live as long as wiregraphs. I'll just say that. And. And it's. We didn't decide, like, oh, we're going to show anything. Like, it's all implied, but there's a scene towards the end where I'm gonna cry where. Where the lyographs stays and hangs out with him and, like, kind of is with him through the end of his life. And I think what is meaningful about that is, like, we as a society don't really talk about that kind of stuff. And it's not directly addressed in the play. Like, it's all implied, but it's touching to me. And just, like right now, every time I sing, there's a song that comes after that scene. I gotta really dig my nail into my palms so that I don't cry, because it's very emotional. But so far, I've kept it together, except for on the radio. [00:32:40] Speaker B: So what have been some of the challenges for bringing Invisible Fences to the stage? [00:32:49] Speaker A: I think, actually, we've been really lucky. Like, the organizations that supported us. Open Eye Theater has been fabulous. Oh, my gosh din. Duluth was fabulous. And honestly, it wouldn't have happened. We got a grant from arac, the Arrowhead Regional Arts Council. That was amazing. And then, to be honest, like, we did a GoFundMe because it was a challenge, like, financially. We wanted to have asl. We wanted to have much the captioning and all the things that we wanted, added costs. But we did a GoFundMe, and that's actually why we recorded the video, is because we knew that not everybody donating would be able to see the show in person. So we gave access to the video to everybody who donated. And so we've actually. I mean, challenges. It's hard to even really say anything's been challenging because it's been so embraced by the people who helped us put it on. I think we've been really lucky. I mean, Kevin maybe has more to add. [00:33:51] Speaker C: No, just everything we brought up with, with Joel sass here at OpenEye was. And again up in with Molly Fox and Zeitgeist was met with a yes, we'll figure it out. They never. They never said no. It was amazing. And we kept throwing more stuff at him. We'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. And so it was just. It's been such a joy. Yeah, we've really been fortunate. And we bring that up because generally that would be the difficult part of this production. [00:34:22] Speaker B: Right. [00:34:23] Speaker C: Just. Yeah, it has really been a labor of love, and so it's been hard work. But every moment is just. I just cherish every moment in this thing. [00:34:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:36] Speaker B: Galen, you are a true musician, but how has that influenced your work in theater? Like, was that much of a stretch? [00:34:46] Speaker A: Well, you know, I actually grew up around theater. My parents owned a dinner theater for 20 years, which is a really random way to grow up. I grew up, like, they would go to rehearsal and they'd bring us with, and we'd just run around and be around theater. But then also, I was in a lot of plays in my early years, like, probably 12 or 13 different plays with a theater up in Duluth called Access Theater. It was half disabled people and half non disabled people. Oh, wow. And they. They had ASL at every show, which is amazing for the 90s. Like, I didn't really exist except for in Duluth, for some reason, but I grew up around it. And then I kind of fell out of theater because, you know, I love performing music. And there is something about the energy exchange. So this was new to me to be back to it. I hadn't done it in, like, 20 years. And I think there is. It's almost like music, though. And Jeremy, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think when you're playing a song, it's not really about you. It's about putting energy out into the audience. But there are ways you can get in your own way. Right. You can get in your own head and make yourself feel self conscious for acting. I'm realizing it's all the same thing, but it took me a while to get comfortable really being the character. I feel better and better the longer we do it, the more times, because it was, you know, Kevin's like a literal born performer. Like, he's been doing this forever, and I felt like, oh, my God, I have to do something on stage with Kevin. Like, what? But actually, it's getting better and it's more fun to like. There's such a nuance to acting that I don't think I really was. I never got into that when I was younger. And it's fun to do it as an adult. [00:36:32] Speaker C: I think these two are naturals. It's just. It's incredible. [00:36:36] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, because we. Oh, here's the funny part. I asked Jeremy, will he play guitar? And then I was like, jeremy, actually, we kind of need some audio description. Would you do that? And then I was like, actually, Jeremy, will you be a bird? Actually, Jeremy, will you be the guardian of the underworld? And so Jeremy's part grew after he agreed to it by, like, about 200%. And so he's really stepped in too. Like, his. His voices and his, like, inflections and, like, the comical timing and stuff. Jeremy was not actually hired to do any of that, but now he's doing it, and I think. Do you enjoy, like, acting? [00:37:11] Speaker B: That's somehow the easiest part is being. [00:37:13] Speaker A: These silly characters trying to, like, guide. [00:37:18] Speaker C: People through the story. [00:37:19] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:37:19] Speaker B: There's a lot of creative opportunities in the. [00:37:23] Speaker C: We're using the caption, we're using the audio descriptions, like, to land, like, different jokes than would have been there. [00:37:32] Speaker A: It's fun. It's pretty cool. Yeah. [00:37:34] Speaker C: Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, it does. It has influenced the play from, again, the perspective that we've brought to it has changed the play and it's changed. [00:37:44] Speaker A: The art form for the better, I would say. [00:37:46] Speaker C: Oh, way better. [00:37:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:48] Speaker C: So much more going on. [00:37:49] Speaker A: That's the cool thing, is what people don't realize about disability culture until they see it. And literally, we've heard this so much that I know that it's true that you don't realize how accessibility can actually make a show better. [00:38:05] Speaker B: Right. [00:38:06] Speaker A: Even if you don't need it. Like, it literally improves your experience of a performance because it's there. Like, a lot of people told me, I thought the captions would be annoying, and I found them really enjoyable because then you know exactly what's. What they're saying, and you never miss anything. And, like. And, you know, you get the jokes better and, like, people who didn't even need them for hearing reasons, like, enjoyed having them. So. And it makes it look like a storybook. You know, the words are at the top, the pictures at the bottom. Like, there's a lot of things that add. Like, accessibility is not. Despite accessibility, it's a good show. It's because of the access that it's a good show. [00:38:46] Speaker C: Right. [00:38:47] Speaker A: So you understand. But I mean, yes, a lot of people don't. [00:38:50] Speaker B: Right. So, Kevin, you're known for storytelling. I mean, that's just what so much of what I hear and I'm wondering how does your lived experiences influence the stories that you choose to tell? [00:39:09] Speaker C: Well, again, it's again, through a perspective through. And I usually put in and an evening of stories about how many disability stories is how much of my life it is. So it's a part of my life. But I'll tell love stories, I'll tell family stories, I'll tell Minnesota stories. And that's a lot like this as well, is that we are such a combination of things. You know, I'm a brother, a husband, you know, a son. And so that all comes into play as. And a lot of it is seen through disability. And humor is a huge part of everything I do. And because when I laugh at something, it doesn't control me anymore. And I have to say, even from a youth, even from early on, my humor is really taking me through some rough patches. And just because of that, and also when you laugh with somebody, you're family. So when we're laughing on stage with people in the audience, we're family. No matter how different we are physically, we all because you connect either family, faith, community, something's connecting there. It's not universal. So humor is really an important thing for connection. So we use a lot of that. [00:40:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm wondering. And I'm more of an intense person, so I often can get into some pretty intense conversations that might make somebody feel fairly uncomfortable. But I do notice a lot of times stories, these stories get told with humor and stories on disability get told with humor. And all of a sudden people find them more relatable or they want to talk about them more or joke about it more. Why is that? I mean, seriously, having a disability is not exactly fun or funny. But what is that? [00:41:15] Speaker A: I think, and I think what it is is that humor and arts music does this too. Allows your brain to bypass logical argument. So like, you're not sitting there like, is she right? Do I believe her? Do I trust her? What's her credentials? You're like, I relate to that on a real human level or I don't. And honestly, I think that's a really. It's not the only thing that matters in advocacy because I think disability advocacy is really serious, especially right now. Like, I'm not going to pretend we shouldn't be talking about the serious stuff. But that being said, if you can connect to someone on their like soul level or what's another word, like they're like really deep seated belief level, if you can touch that place and you don't have to get to you have to go through the heart, not the brain, for that. I think humor does that. I think music does that. I think visual art and dance can do that. I think. And storytelling can obviously do that. I think that's why humor is effective, is it doesn't rely on the judge, the mental judge, to be like, do I agree? Or what should my argument be? Often when we're talking to someone logically, like, even right now, right, like, you are, like, thinking about what you're gonna say next to, like, either agree or disagree with someone. When you're in the moment of art, that's not the point. Like, you're there to. To witness someone else's truth. And I think humor does that really well, and music does that really well. Do you have anything to add to that, Kevin? [00:42:58] Speaker C: That was so well said. Oh, yeah. You gotta write that down. [00:43:01] Speaker A: I know. Quick, go get a pen. Yeah. [00:43:05] Speaker B: I feel like the landscape is changing. I mean, it's unfortunate, but let's face it, politics plays into just about everything, and some more than others. But I think the landscape is changing for everyone lately, or many of us. But certainly the landscape for people with disabilities is. Is changing. I'm curious to know, I guess, what you see coming up or what we should be watching for or what. What people can do. [00:43:47] Speaker A: I don't want to dominate. Kevin, you want to go first? [00:43:50] Speaker C: No, I just think what I really hope is the genie's out of the bottle and that people with. What has happened, especially the last few years, I mean. Well, like I was saying earlier, I'm a bit older. I was in shriners Hospital in 1960, and so things were really different back then. I've got to tell you. I mean, going. Watching the words that are associated with us, going from, you know, tolerance to accepted to, you know, words that were difficult to muscle through to. Now the word embraced is used a lot, and that just makes me. My heart sing. We have a long way to go, but even the fact that people are recognizing, I mean, we're already there. Discovery is uncovery when it comes to, you know, what's going on with folks with disabilities, but it really is. We've come a long way, and we have a long way to go, and I'm hoping we just don't go backwards. That's a big fear these days for me. [00:44:52] Speaker A: For me, I think what I want to urge people to do, like, what you can do is, like, actually tune in to some. I mean, like, your radio show, like, disability, about what we should be concerned cuts and DEI rollbacks are really going to negatively harm many, many populations. But disability in a way, because we haven't had the same cultural moment that many other groups have had. There's been a very like, I learned about the disability rights movement, the real disability, like the section 504 sit in and stuff. I didn't learn about that until I was in my 30s. It wasn't covered in school. It's still not covered in a lot of schools. I'm like, so it's not that people are inherently like unwilling to think about it necessarily. Some people might be, but I think many people just literally don't know the history. And they don't assume, like they assume Medicare covers disabled people. Well, it doesn't. It's Medicaid. And so like the program, Medicaid cuts are seen by and large as something that most people are okay cutting. And I don't think they realize how bad that is for us. Like, I am able to live with my husband because I, he can help take care of me because of Medicaid. He doesn't have a day job because he helps me. But if he, if nobody was able to help me, I wouldn't be able to do any of the stuff I do in the community. Like Medicaid is hugely important to me and a lot of other disabled people. So it's not just a budget issue. I was thinking about an acronym today about life, love and integrity and fairness and empathy. Like, if I like that, want to be like on the right side of history, I think we can look at everybody in this way. Like, I don't want to have an enemy in another political party, but I do want us to both look at each other with love and integrity and fairness and empathy and just hold yourself to that standard. Like, even if people around you aren't doing it, you need to hold yourself to that standard. And part of that is to be fair and listen to the disability community and be like, if this was me, would I care if like my healthcare was getting cut and like nobody was going to hire me anymore? I mean, dei, this is a little known fact that you probably know Sam, but many people don't, is there's another letter in the DEI and it's a deia and in the executive order right now, it actually says accessibility. So like a lot of the employment gains that weren't around when Kevin was born, that has since happened. Where disabled people have been in the workforce more now than at any time in our history of the humanity, a lot of that is literally because of dei. And so Just to educate people and say, this isn't like one person wins and one person loses. This is like, how do we help make a society that's just more welcoming, more loving, has more integrity, is fairer, has empathy? Those are not negative things. But we do need to listen to the disability story. And I believe also, obviously, like, gender and race and sexual orientation and trans lives, all of these are really important to me. But the thing about disability is often people will, when they're talking about issues, they'll list every other minority but forget to mention disability. So we're sort of like a forgotten minority. Yes. And that's hard to. It's hard to hear. So, like, just try not to be forgetting about disability when you're talking about this and think of it through the eyes of empathy. Because it's. Man. I mean, every person, the crappiest person deserves to be treated like a human, you know? Like, I just think it's important that we get back to that instead of, like, it's not all about budgets. [00:49:06] Speaker B: And, you know, honestly, you never know when you'll have. If you'll have a disability. I mean, no, most people will have one at some time in their lives. [00:49:16] Speaker A: Yep. [00:49:17] Speaker B: So. [00:49:17] Speaker A: Yep. If you live long enough, you will probably get a disability. And even if you don't, it's just like, what a cool world. I wish that's why you should come to Invisible Fences. It's like, you know, it's a cool world to be around. Like, I think it's diversity and all this stuff is exciting. Like, holy cow, there's so many different ways to live and. And, like, enjoy this. Oh, my gosh. Isn't that amazing? Like, why can't we just be excited that we get to live in this diverse world, you know? [00:49:49] Speaker C: Yeah. Going back to what you asked earlier, what do you want out of this play? I think for people to go. I want to be them, you know? [00:49:57] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:50:00] Speaker B: Well, I want to thank you both for coming on really quick. I want to get to the in the woods song, but I want real quick for you to tell when. How people can get tickets and when it is again. [00:50:12] Speaker A: This show is an Open Eye theater. It opens on Thursday, March 5, no, 6, and then closes on the 15th. There's like nine shows and go to Open Eye Theater's webpage. You can get tickets there. And it's all ages, really fun, super accessible every performance. [00:50:32] Speaker B: Kevin and Galen and Jeremy as well. I really enjoyed having you guys on. Can you please set the stage of the Lost in the woods and tell us what that's about. [00:50:45] Speaker A: Yep. I wrote Lost in the WOODS early, like, 2013, about how the farther along you get in. Like, it was actually about the music career. Like, the farther along you get in music, it is to forget where you came from and to, like, kind of fudge your integrity. So the song is about not fudging your integrity. And in this song in particular for the show, it's right after we meet and we decided to go on this epic adventure together. When you were lost in the woods? You were misunderstood by everyone? Everyone? You were searching for words? But they came out absurd? And no one heard you? No one heard you? You speak your mind? They lost the time? Where's your heart? Where's your heart today? For give yourself a go? Give yourself away? And now you're out on your own? Getting farther from home? And everywhere? Everywhere you see hurting and strife? People cling to your light? But no one sees you? No one sees you? Keep your wife? It's all a lie? Where's your heart? Where? Where's your heart today? Forgive yourself? Don't give yourself away? Away, away? Forgive yourself? But don't give yourself away? [00:53:23] Speaker B: You've been tuned to Disability in Progress. The views expressed on the show are not necessarily those of KFAI or its board of directors. My name is Sam. I'm the producer of the show. Charlene Dahl is my PR research person. We've been speaking with Kevin Kling, Jeremy and Galen Lee in regards to disability advocacy. And also there, play Invisible Fences. Thanks so much for listening. [00:54:13] Speaker A: KPI.org.