Disability and Progress-July 18, 2024- how AI combats Dyslexia, plus Minnesota Fringe!

[00:00:00] Speaker A: KPI.org. [00:01:00] Speaker B: This is disability in progress. We bring you insights into ideas about and discussions on disability topics. My name is Sam. I'm the host of this show. Thanks so much for tuning in. Charlene Dahl is my research pr person. Hello, Charlene. [00:01:14] Speaker C: Good evening. [00:01:16] Speaker B: Miguel is my engineer today. Erin is my podcaster. Today we are speaking with Doctor Coral Hoennenhouse. For this week. Doctor Ho is a leading expert in clinical linguistics. We'll be talking about how AI can fix dyslexia. Thanks for joining me, Doctor Hill. [00:01:44] Speaker C: Happy to be here. [00:01:46] Speaker B: I want to start out first by talking a little bit about giving us some history about you and how you got interested in linguistics. [00:01:59] Speaker C: I actually started working with linguistics as an undergraduate, and my degree is primarily focused on english linguistics. And if you look around at programs in colleges and universities, linguistics is not a common major for people. But I was fortunate to actually have stumbled into it. And so after my BA in linguistics, then I went on to get a PhD in linguistics as well. And what fascinated me about this discipline is that you think about language as an art, right? That's true, but it's also highly technical if you look at really the components of language. And what we want to do is actually understand people and study the brain. And so we look at people's linguistic outputs, their behaviors, what they say, what they don't say, what they say, perhaps incorrectly, in certain situations, and we want to find out why. So, in the sense that we are actually trying to read individual brains. And then after I got my degree in linguistics at the PhD level, I wanted to use it in a practical way and continue with it mission to understand the brain. And so I volunteered to help people in my community who had all sorts of language difficulties. And the more I helped them, the more I learned. So I never stopped learning. And being a student in linguistics. [00:03:40] Speaker B: Excellent. Well, I mean, it seems like a topic that is. It's long lasting, right? It's. Nothing's gonna. It'll be harder for something to just take your place. Maybe. I'm curious. So you talked about dyslexia in your writings. And can you tell people who don't know what dyslexia is and how common it is? [00:04:13] Speaker C: Well, we'll start with the prevalence of it so people understand that this is a big problem. And it's actually the biggest and costliest problem in education and also one of the biggest ones in society. Because you know what happens, right, if we are facing literacy problems. And so the problem with dyslexia is that up to now, even in the field, there's a lot of confusion as to what it is. And basically, when you look at it at a very detailed level, you find that people who have dyslexia have inefficient language processes running in the brain. And so because the linguistic system, the brain, is super complex, all sorts of things can be working less than fully efficiently. And so the solution to dyslexia, a language processing problem, is to find those processes that are not running efficiently. The challenge, though, is that there's so much variation in the population, and that's why it's confusing for teachers, for physicians, for even experts in the field, authorities at universities. There is no consensus right now on an operational definition of dyslexia. That is, operationalize it so that you can identify it exactly and measure it. Right. Is the reading difficulty, which is the most overt symptom of it? Is it getting worse? Is it getting better if you provide intervention? So those were the questions that had been around forever, actually, for the past 100 years. And so what is new about our coming into this field is that with AI technology, you can get very exactly answers to these questions for each individual. What is the individual actually facing? What is the severity of the problem and so forth? Yes. [00:06:23] Speaker B: How common is it? [00:06:26] Speaker C: At least 20% of the population. So the common statement that's given in very reputable sources is that one in five people. And which is why, when you talk about dyslexia, you're likely to talk to people who have dyslexia or know someone with dyslexia, because are there different. [00:06:47] Speaker B: You talked about variation of dyslexia. So there are different types of it, or is it just, does it just. It's one thing that maybe varies to how badly somebody has it. [00:06:58] Speaker C: It's on a continuum, Sam. Right. Because it has to do with language processes. Right. Lots and lots of language processes run in the brain for us to function with language. Right. Speaking, listening, reading, writing. Right. And so because of the variation and the breadth of this condition and language processing in general, then you can find that, yes, you can talk about different types of this problem to different levels of severity, but we find that it's not useful to actually just label somebody with dyslexia or label that person with a type of dyslexia. What we need to do, if we want to solve the problem for anyone, is to get to the source or sources of those processing difficulties. So that is, we have to locate which language processes are not running efficiently in the brain of somebody with dyslexia. And before, no one could do it. But with dissolve AI, the expert system using computing technology, now we can answer that question. We can help individual brains in that way. [00:08:15] Speaker B: Does dyslexia affect mostly a person's reading, or are there other processes it affects? [00:08:22] Speaker C: Right. Because it has to do with language processes and not, you know, not just reading alone. It does often show up in various ways. Right. Outside of reading, the person may have trouble with speech, listening comprehension, remembering oral instructions, and writing and spelling. So these kinds of conditions tend to coexist in the person. And you understand why, right? Because it has to do with language processing. And language processing is not confined to just one function. [00:08:58] Speaker B: A lot of your stuff works. It's without preset testing kits. What is a preset testing kit? [00:09:07] Speaker C: Okay. All the assessment tests that are given either by specialists or by schools, they are actually purchased from education publishers. And so they are standard kits. And it's just a matter of selecting which test to run out of these test batteries. That's what we talk about when we say standard testing kits. Right, but that's not what dissolve. I was asking you to do that. Right. And it's all customized for each person during the interaction with the student through the games. [00:09:49] Speaker B: This is disability in progress. This is also KFAI, 90.3 FM, Minneapolis, and kfai.org dot. We want to remind you that we are podcasted, and you can hear our episodes for two weeks on the archives. We are speaking with Doctor Coral Ho. She is talking about dyslexia and how it can be fixed, and her company, dissolve. So tell us a little bit, Doctor ho, about your company, dissolve, and how do you do what you do? [00:10:20] Speaker C: The program is dissolved. It's dysolve. And, you know, we have a lot of information about dyslexia and the other learning disabilities on this website. So let me spell it out. It's dysolve. And we want to educate the public about dyslexia and these other learning disabilities because it impacts not just the people who have dyslexia, it impacts everyone, because this is the biggest, costliest problem, education. And, you know, actually, collectively, for schools across the country, each year, they're spending over $100 billion on this problem, on reading difficulty. Over $100 billion, Sam. That is our money. It's taxpayer money. So we have to look at what's going on in schools, how they're doing it, why the students with dyslexia or reading difficulty continue to have this struggle, even with very costly intervention year after year, and why, even with that amount of money, schools cannot support all students with dyslexia, but only half of them going on. Yes. [00:11:40] Speaker B: Wow. And why is that? [00:11:43] Speaker C: Why is that? Right. It's because the primary method that is used is teacher led. Right? Using teachers to help, you know, differentiate instruction and support each student. And these teachers have to be extensively trained. It's very costly for themselves and for the schools to train them. And yet the problem cannot be corrected. They can only help the students cope with the condition year after year. Why? Because of the complexity of this problem. Because of the inability for humans to actually find where these language processes are not running efficiently person by person. The complexity of the problem prevents human specialists from resolving it. Also, because humans cannot track and measure things that run under a second in hundreds of milliseconds. All these processes are running in the brain for language, all in parallel, all at the same time. So it is beyond human capability. The other problem, of course, is that there are at least 13 million children with this condition in this country. And so you need something that can scale and offer the solution to everybody all at once, rather than make children wait year after year just for evaluation to find out if they have dyslexia or not. [00:13:16] Speaker B: So AI, artificial intelligence, is something you use. How does AI help this? [00:13:24] Speaker C: We call it dissolved AI, because this is not some generic tool that we borrowed from some other source and then apply it to this condition. No, we actually custom built the whole computer system to be able to identify this kind of problem and resolve it person by person. And the difference between what I said before about traditional methods, using standard preset kits and hours, is that there is nothing preset by dissolve AI only during the interaction with the student through the games, would dissolve AI, actually create new tests and new training activities for the child. So it is not pre made, it is only during interaction. And so this is very advanced technology, and it is already here, and it is patented. And, you know, we talk about AI. You know, we talking about AI because it's a hot topic, right? Since last year, perhaps for people, but, you know, this product has been in development for the past ten years, and the research and the fieldwork that went into it was for the past 30 years. [00:14:44] Speaker B: Is there a difference between AI and advanced AI? [00:14:47] Speaker C: There are many types of AI, right? But we say autonomous. This is autonomous AI in the sense that there is really no need for humanity input anymore. So the child goes through the program from sign up to program completion completely by interacting only with the computer system. And there is no staff coming in to give any more input or instruction for the child. [00:15:16] Speaker B: So it talks about, you talk about AI. That helps things work. So how do these games work? Like, how do they make help somebody who is dyslexic. [00:15:28] Speaker C: Right. First, let's answer the question, why are we using games? When the child plays a game, it's a way for dissolve AI to get some information about how the child is processing that input. So we activate certain brain processes, and the. The way that the child responds to the game gives dissolve AI more information about that particular child's brain processing. So it's always evaluative. In that sense. Every game is evaluative. And that's one difference between using AI as opposed to using a traditional method. Because with traditional methods, where you have teachers or specialists evaluate the child, it's done only one time because it is pretty time consuming and labor intensive. However, if you have an AI system doing it, there is no additional cost. Every interaction with the child is evaluated right to the end of the program because of this ability to gather new information about the child's brain processing, then dissolve AI autonomously on its own, then decides what to build next as the game for the child. Right. [00:16:51] Speaker B: And this ever changing. [00:16:53] Speaker C: Yes, this happens. [00:16:55] Speaker B: Right. [00:16:55] Speaker C: This interaction between the child and this computer expert system is continuous and in real time, so that there is no pause. Right. The child does not have to wait. Dissolve AI decides immediately, but it does so based on cross referencing billions of data points that have been gathered about that particular student. So dissolve AI actually builds the user's program as it goes. [00:17:23] Speaker B: Are there other language disorders that AI can work with? [00:17:27] Speaker C: I would imagine that AI can work with all the other language disorders, and we are exploring it. [00:17:36] Speaker B: Is there, is this in schools now, or are you just getting into schools, or how is this working? [00:17:45] Speaker C: We are just getting into schools, yes. But the platform for individual subscribers has been around for a while. We started actually testing the platform in 2017. [00:18:00] Speaker B: Ah, okay. Is there a magical age that your system can work with best? [00:18:07] Speaker C: We get this question a lot, and, you know, because what about adults? [00:18:13] Speaker B: You know, sometimes adults go through their whole life, and then they realize, you know, it hasn't gone away. And I'm an adult, and I still struggle with reading and, and whatnot. [00:18:25] Speaker C: All right. Yes. Let me deal with those two different groups. Right. So let's talk about the adults first, because we do get quite a lot of inquiries from adults, you know, at different stages of life. And I think it is important if they've always wondered why they have this kind of struggle and difficulty. It's never too late to find out why. And at the very least, dissolve AI can identify which language processes are not running efficiently and at what levels of severity. So they have the answer to that question. Now, we do have young adults who are in their twenties, late twenties, who have seen the same kinds of improvement that we see in the younger students, that the language difficulties tend to diminish or dissipate. Now, for children, the current program is meant for kindergartners and up, and it is possible to have younger children after this. If we get to another version of the current program. Now, is there a sweet spot? We find that a lot of students come in in late primary grades and in, you know, middle school. That's when they already realize that they have a problem. They can see that they're different in terms of performance academically compared to their classmates, and they're motivated to want to change that. With younger children, they are not clear about why they're doing this program. There's a motivational issue, however. We find that sometimes it is faster for them to have the condition corrected, because for older children, they still have to catch up with vocab and spelling and all that. But it is never too late. Unfortunately, by high school, a lot of students give up. And I say don't give up, because what we find when we look at the days is that their processing problems are much more narrow by that time, much more clearly defined. So if they persist with correcting that, you know, with a program like dissolve, I think it can be done very effectively for them. [00:20:51] Speaker B: I'm presuming that younger than kindergarten, you know, gets pretty difficult because kids usually aren't diagnosed by then. [00:21:00] Speaker C: They don't need to be diagnosed. And it's because dissolve AI does its own evaluation. As I said, the label is not important. It's important to locate where the processing inefficiencies are for each person. We got to get to that fine granular level. A label like being diagnosed with dyslexia is not necessary for the program to work. [00:21:32] Speaker B: How would you know, though, if they had dyslexia? Or what if it's just. I mean, could somebody just be a slow reader? [00:21:39] Speaker C: Well, that's what the games are for. The games give dissolve AI very specific information about language processing. This is a language processing problem. And so then dissolve AI generated data show, right, which processes are affected, and at one level, is it severity. And we need that kind of very detailed answer to understand why the child may be struggling with reading and therefore correct the sources of that reading difficulty. So that the reading difficulty actually is resolved. [00:22:21] Speaker B: So your system has been out for about seven, eight years? [00:22:26] Speaker C: Approximately six, seven, yes, right. [00:22:29] Speaker B: Six, seven years. Do you have statistics on how well dissolve has done? [00:22:36] Speaker C: You know, actually, if you go to dissolve.com press page, you can see the students coming forward, right? They came in in late primary grades at the beginning of dissolve beta testing or in middle school. And now they are college students or graduates, and they're coming forward to tell their story about how they got past that reading difficulty. A lot of them became honest and high honest students in high school. They're thriving in college. Some of them are going on to work on graduate programs. There you have the quality of this change if you look at statistics. We are running a clinical trial right now. It started in 2022, and so therefore, we're tracking that. And preliminary results are positive. And bear in mind when you look at reading research. Reading research has failed to show positive effect of interventions before for this particular population, especially after third grade. Students who are struggling with reading after third grade tend to stay this way in spite of the intensity of any intervention before. [00:24:05] Speaker B: So what has been the response from teachers and schools and things? [00:24:11] Speaker C: We are actually getting phenomenal response from individuals, right. Families and private subscribers coming in. But this responsibility actually goes to schools because there's a federal mandate that states that schools must provide appropriate education for students with disabilities. And therefore, we would like to see schools respond quickly to take care of every child because every year that the problem is still persisting, you lose a lot of students. And that's why it's important to provide scalable, inexpensive, and efficacious solution. That's why we turn to AI, because we would like all the students served immediately and the solution, and the technology is already here to do that. [00:25:13] Speaker B: Do you find that there is an economic trend for people who come to your dissolve AI? So, for instance, is it sometimes it's different ethnicities that have more processing problem or sometimes it's in a different income level? Do you find that actually, we find. [00:25:36] Speaker C: Quite a diversity of families coming to us. And it's the same thing with the clinical trial that we have all across demographics when it comes to economic status and ethnicity and school settings. And so far so good. Dissolve AI seems to work for this very broad spectrum of the population. And that is encouraging news, right? Because we have seen, right when you look at the research and you look at education, that some groups are somehow left behind because they just don't have access to support services and special services. So this is good that we can do this inexpensively so that all schools can come in. [00:26:32] Speaker B: What is your hope for dissolve AI in the future? [00:26:36] Speaker C: Dissolve AI is designed to correct dyslexia. So we want this to happen to children and adults all across country and worldwide because we also have the same prevalence of dyslexia across the globe. [00:26:56] Speaker B: How can people find out more about dissolve? [00:26:59] Speaker C: Dissolve.com has a lot of information to educate the public. So it's Dash o L. Dash. Dash e.com. dissolve.com. [00:27:08] Speaker B: And is there anything more you'd like to leave with us? [00:27:12] Speaker C: And. Yes. So when people search, it's good to actually search these terms, dyslexia and aihdenhe, because then you can see the latest innovations there are. [00:27:27] Speaker B: Yes. And presumably, hopefully, it sounds like you're trying to get your program into more schools so that people will have better success. [00:27:38] Speaker C: And I think people also should understand that whether they have this disability or not, they are affected by dyslexia and the other learning disabilities because of the amount of tax, school tax, that we pay, and to have us pay over $100 billion for a condition that can be corrected. Schools need to respond immediately to a solution that's already out there to resolve this problem, because we really cannot do this to taxpayers, especially for people who are on fixed incomes and also for all children, because there are constant education budget cuts that take away enrichment in other programs. [00:28:26] Speaker B: Yes. Well, Doctor Ho, thank you so much for being on the program. I really appreciate that. And good luck with dissolve AI in the future. [00:28:35] Speaker C: Thank you, sir. [00:28:36] Speaker B: Thank you. We've been speaking with Doctor Coral Ho. Doctor Ho is a leading expert in clinical linguistics. We have been talking about AI and how it can be fixed, and her company, dissolve. This is KFAI, 90.3 FM, Minneapolis, and Kfaiden. Right now we are speaking with Don Bentley. Dawn is the executive director of the Minnesota Fringe. I think you're still executive director, right, Dawn? [00:29:08] Speaker A: I am. This is my 8th festival in this role. [00:29:11] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. Who would have thought? [00:29:15] Speaker A: I didn't. [00:29:18] Speaker B: It's good to be good at what you do. So thank you so much for coming back. We always enjoy you back each year to talk about the fringe. So for those who have not heard us before, give a little definition of the history of the fringe, and also how long you've been there. Eight years, in a way. [00:29:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:43] Speaker B: Tell us a little bit about the history of the Fringe. [00:29:45] Speaker A: Sure. The Fringe festival in Minnesota was born in 1993, so this will be our 31st annual festival. And we even had festivals during COVID They were online but we kept it going. And this is my 8th festival with the organization as executive director. But the fringe movement itself is over 75 years old. In 1947, there was a festival in Edinburgh, Scotland, that was an arts performing arts festival. And some of the people who wanted to participate as artists in the festival were shunned and put aside because their work was not deemed appropriate, proper, good enough. And so they said, you know what? We believe in what we're doing. We're going to set up on the outskirts of town, and we're just going to perform anyway. And pretty soon what happened was that the crowds started flocking to that adventurous art on the fringe of the city, and a fringe festival was born. And now there are over 200 fringes throughout the world, and Minnesota happens to be one of the largest in North America, certainly largest in the midwest. Yes. [00:30:54] Speaker B: That's cool. I didn't know that. [00:30:56] Speaker A: Yeah. We get performers from all over the twin cities, greater Minnesota, outside of the midwest region, and even performers coming from other parts of the world to participate in our fringe, which is selected by lottery. So it's always a mystery to me in February when we select our festival participants, who exactly is going to be in the festival? And it's a moving target. In the last week alone, we've had about six people drop out for various reasons. Something comes up, the schedule problem, whatever, and there will be another artist on the waitlist willing to take their place. So it's very adventurous in how it's put together, but it's also very adventurous that you'll be able to see 105 different productions, over 500 different performance times in eleven days of every kind of performing arts that you could imagine, clowning, magic, drama, dance, anything that you could want to see. If you like certain content, like you're a big fan of Shakespeare, it will be there. If you like children's stories, they will be there. If you are really into mimes, probably going to be there. So we have it all at the Fringe festival. [00:32:10] Speaker B: Let's just back up and break it down again. How many his theaters host the fringe plays? [00:32:16] Speaker A: Sure. Yep. There will be nine fringe managed venues, and then we have five different independent venues. So those are things like the ribs of humanity. Outside of the University of Minnesota Carlson School of Business, there's a little park. So there'll be something going on in that park, and there'll be something going on in the comedy corner Underground, which is a comedy store, like underneath a restaurant in the Seven Corners area, there's a coffee shop in uptown that's being used as a venue. So there are nine traditional theaters and then a handful of non traditional performance spaces. [00:32:56] Speaker B: Oh, cool. How are the theaters decided upon? [00:33:03] Speaker A: Well, we looked at theaters where artists that participate in the fringe might also produce year round, and so we negotiated rentals of these because it gives artists the opportunity to play in spaces that they are familiar with and that maybe our audiences are familiar with. But when we go into a theater, we literally take it over for three weeks to do technical rehearsals and stuff. And so we have some great theater partners. And the other thing about that is, maybe as a patron, you haven't been to a particular theater. It gives you the opportunity to try something new. And while what is going on in those theater spaces is not related to what that theater produces year round, it will still expose somebody to some new neighborhood and some new space where maybe they be willing to go back during the off season of Fringe and try something out. [00:33:58] Speaker B: How far apart of the theaters spread is there? Do you have any wish to keep them in a certain proximity from each other, or. [00:34:07] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. We, our audiences and our staff, for that matter, like it when theaters are spaced close enough so that in between shows you can walk. So every, every show is 1 hour long, and then you have 30 minutes to get to the next show. Now, you might just stay in the theater you were just at and go to the very next show there, or you might walk from, let's say, mixed blood to the southern and catch another show. So there are several theaters in hubs that we call them, like the Cedar Riverside hub surrounding KFAI over there. We have several theaters there. We have another hub in Uptown, which has some challenging construction going on. But once you park in Uptown, you can walk to any theater there. There's some theaters in between. We call them satellite theaters. One in northeast and one in the Phillips neighborhood. So that's strike and open eye theater. And then some of these other independent productions are kind of sprinkled around on the way to or from there. But I should also point out that on the weekends, we have this lovely partnership with Metro Transit that you can ride buses and trains for free. You just go to any of our venue pages and download a pass. So we can help you get to places that may have challenging construction issues or help you get from your home into the theater hubs so that you can walk around from there at no charge, thanks to that wonderful partnership, what. [00:35:33] Speaker B: Is considered a satellite theater. [00:35:36] Speaker A: So it's. It's not in a hub that's walkable from the other theaters, but it is very close to. It's a close drive or a quick metro hop or bicycle. If you, if you, if you so choose. [00:35:50] Speaker B: Gotcha. Are there a lot of plays done by people with disabilities? Are there plays a box people with disabilities? [00:36:00] Speaker A: Yes. And if you were to go to our website, minnesotafringe.org, and look at the initial show page that you land on, there's going to be a variety of ways to find a show to sort of whittle down that 105 selection. And so you can select by genre or content and or features. And one of the features is, does this include artists with disabilities? And so if you selected that feature, you'd get a list of shows that features artists with disabilities. And then also if you are looking for a show that provides accessibility services, we have a special page on our website called minnesotafringe.org access that will provide a list of all the shows that are receiving audio description or ASL interpretation. So that if you need access services to better enjoy the show, we have that opportunity for you from about 25% of the shows in the festival. And then we also have shows that are non verbal, so you can select from that. If you are seeing a dance show or some other show that where you're not reliant upon the text, then that is a good place to go and find those. [00:37:21] Speaker B: Are all the theaters accessible for people in wheelchairs? [00:37:25] Speaker A: Yes, all the fringe managed theaters are accessible. And all of the information about accessibility, let's say you were going to use metro mobility and you might need to know more information about what the corners are, where to get dropped off. That's all on our venue webpage. So if you find a show you really like and you click on the venue, which is a link that you can click on the venue page, will tell you all that you'll need to know about accessibility, where the accessible restrooms are. And we've thought about that. We truly want to be one of the most accessible theater experiences in Minnesota, and we take it very seriously. [00:38:06] Speaker B: Do you have requirements for theaters if they decide, hey, I'd like to be in the mix for fringe shows? [00:38:12] Speaker A: Absolutely. The number one requirement is that you must be Ada accessible. We must create a welcoming environment by first reducing any barriers to entry, like physical, literal barriers to entry. And then other than that, it's just being willing to kind of let go and let fringe, as I would say, because we do take over and we hold theaters that are not held liable for any of the things that we put on there. So on those stages, because it is very adventurous sometimes, and who knows what's going to be on the stage when I rent those theaters in the fall? I have no idea who's going to. [00:38:50] Speaker B: Be here, but who chooses the plays? [00:38:55] Speaker A: Like, it is 100% random lottery, random choice. They literally get assigned a number, and then we pick ping pong balls out of a bingo cage in a public forum so that anyone can participate and know exactly when we know who has been selected. This year, we had 590 applications, so 590 producers vying for 99 fringe managed spots. So I think that's a pretty good. That's a pretty good ratio of artists wanting to be in the festival. We can only fill so many theater spaces, but, yeah, that's. And so if you aren't selected, you're put on a waitlist, and people drop out all the time. Schedules change, family vacations happen, whatever, whatever jobs change, whatever the reason, you can drop out of the festival. And there's a whole wait list of, you know, maybe 400 other artists who are willing to do it. [00:39:56] Speaker B: So how do you decide what artist is going to be in what theater? [00:40:00] Speaker A: So we ask artists a series of questions about the show that they're imagining for themselves and what the technical needs are for that show. And there are just certain aspects, like if you're a dance show, you want to be performing on a particular of floor. If you are having projection, we want to have you in a theater that where that's possible and easy. And so we sort that all out. But in the last two years, we've done something a little different. So previously, we would sort that all out, and then we would hand schedule the festival. It would take about 100 hours and all hands on deck with the entire staff going through the conflicts. And maybe there's an actor in two different shows, so we can never have them on the same night. Or maybe one person works on Wednesday nights and can't perform that night. We would go through all of this information by hand, but two years ago, we encountered a University of Minnesota professor who loves puzzles and he loves lotteries. And we talked to him about our process, and he created a computer program to help us schedule this festival in an egalitarian way that makes everyone's needs met. And it only takes about 4 hours. And so technology's cool, Sam. And we're really excited about that partnership because that means we have 96 hours to pay attention to artists where we didn't before. [00:41:29] Speaker B: Exactly. So how can people get tickets, and how many different ways are there to do that? [00:41:36] Speaker A: Well, this is one of the reasons why I'm so excited to talk to you, Sam, because we're doing something completely new this year. So, as I mentioned earlier, we have a page on our website that's specifically dedicated to the shows with accessibility. And so we have ASL interpretation and audio description. And in every single one of those performances listed on our access page, we will be holding six tickets at the venue for free. Just walk up and say, I'm a patron who's using audio description, ASL, and you can just get a ticket and just walk in. Walk in. Just identify yourself. [00:42:14] Speaker B: We only have six of them, right? [00:42:16] Speaker A: Six at each venue. Right. Okay. Okay. So we're hopeful that all six will be used every single time. And that means we're giving away more than 100 tickets to accessible shows. We're really hopeful that every single one gets used. So the other way to get a ticket to a show is. Is to just when you go to that page or to the full list of shows on our website, minnesotafringe.org, you can click on any venue page and the tickets will be available. Typically, tickets are dollar 20. And then I should also point out that the artists on the stage gets 70% of that ticket cost directly given to them at the end of the festival. So when you buy a ticket to a show, you are supporting the artist that you see and supporting the work that fringe does by creating the platforms for those artists. So you can go to the website, get a ticket. That way you can show up at a venue and say, I am here to take advantage of the ASL interpretation or audio description that's happening. I'm a patron that needs that. And you and your companion, if you have one, are welcome to take the free tickets if they are still available. [00:43:32] Speaker B: This is six tickets for each show. [00:43:35] Speaker A: That are for each show. Yep. [00:43:38] Speaker B: That's pretty good, actually. So is this also a way to kind of try to track how much. How much audio description is being used? [00:43:47] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, our describers, we have wonderful describers and interpreters that work with us year over year, and they usually tell us how many people took advantage of the opportunity. But truthfully, I just know that sometimes people with disabilities have other issues going on where it may be a financial barrier. And I do not want. I do not want the cost of a ticket to be the reason that somebody didn't take advantage of this. We build this into our plan every year, and we are also trying to demonstrate to artists that you should really think about building accessibility into your show when you're crafting your show, think about it during the creation process. Because it's very hard to find a big group of accessible performances in a short period of time like this. I mean, you. If you are a theater buff, you can really binge at the fringe, and you can see all kinds of things and different, different genres and different locations. And we want that feeling of excitement to be accessible to absolutely everybody. And so we try to always put at least 20% of our shows have access services, and we try to grow that as much as we can every year. It's our goal to be really one of the most, if not the most accessible performing arts opportunity in the state. [00:45:17] Speaker B: You're tuned to KFAI, 90.3 FM, Minneapolis, and kfai.org. this is disability on progress. We're speaking with Don Bentley. Dawn is the executive director for the Fringe Minnesota Fringe Festival. So are there different numbers of plays that are done, or does each state that has. Because a lot of states have a fringe, and I presume that some of these fringes run different dates so that some of the individuals who travel from fringe to fringe can do. So. Do they all have the same amount of plays and the same requirements, or are different states different? [00:46:00] Speaker A: The one thing that all fringe festivals have in common is that they are not curated festivals. So some fringes have a lottery system, like we do, where it's random luck who is selected to be in the festival. And some have a first come, first serve system so that you just sign up first and you get in there. But there is no other commonality between them. Some fringes are very, very small, and there may be a long weekend and 24 to 30 shows, and then some are hundreds of shows, and they are, like, in Australia or Scotland. I mean, it is a month long adventure, and they are hundreds and hundreds of. Of shows. So it's everything. But we are the largest in the Midwest. So we get a lot of touring fringe artists, and there are professionals who tour the circuit, as we say. And when we select our dates of the festival, we're mindful of the fringe that happens before us and the fringe that happens after us, in the sense that we want to make it easy for someone to tour the festival. As a matter of fact, this year we worked with two fringes, one out of Kansas City and one out of Indiana, and we created a little mini tour of the Midwest. We call it the Midwest Trifecta. So there is an artist, one from Missouri, one from Indiana, and one from Minnesota, who were selected and automatically got into all three festivals. And so they were able to create a tour, and then as a bonus. When you complete that tour, your home festival producing fee is refunded, so it is a discounted opportunity to take your show on the road. And we had quite a few applicants for that, and it was really nice to see that for some people, it's like, this is great. I can get a guaranteed tour of my show. I can go have 15 performances in six weeks, and that's wonderful. Or, hey, you know, I wasn't. I was wanting to take my show on the road, but I was a little nervous about scheduling a tour, and here's an opportunity where it's just created for me. So we had a little bit of both. [00:48:09] Speaker B: Huh. So do you have an idea of what fringe is? The longest fringe? [00:48:18] Speaker A: I think the Edinburgh fringe in Scotland is four or five weeks long, and it's hundreds and hundreds of shows that take place at all hours of the day. And it's really an experience to behold. I have yet to be there, but I've talked to performances who have participated, and it's just overwhelming. I can't imagine being so stimulated by so many different forms of the performing arts. Frankly, I get at a loss as to what I'm going to see in our own fringe festival, because the most you can see is 55 shows, so just over half of what's available to you. So you have to be discerning with your schedule. And that's if you sat in a theater and watched every performance that happened. And, you know, I'm still running the festival, so I don't have time to do that. It's really, really difficult. But we have plenty of people who do it. We have a vip pass available, and those folks see every single show that they possibly can, and they are very creative with finding a way to make a schedule that doesn't allow them to have one missed time slot. [00:49:28] Speaker B: Wow, that's kind of amazing, because our fringe goes, what are the hours? Is it from, like, eight to midnight or. Eight? What? [00:49:37] Speaker A: Yeah. The first show of every weeknight starts at 530. The first show of weekend starts at 01:00 p.m. and the last show on all nights of the festival. And our start at 10:00 p.m. with the exception of our very last night of the festival, where we have a party this year, the party is going to be at Cancan Wonderland. And we give out awards to the artists, and actually, there's an award for a tech and an award for a theater patron. So we give out all kinds of awards, and then we just celebrate the people, the staff, the artists, the volunteers of which we need a hundred to make this happen, and all of the wonderful folks who come together each year for what I kind of think of as, you know, theater camp. [00:50:27] Speaker B: So I think this started about, as you say in Covid times, that you guys kind of went online. [00:50:36] Speaker A: Yes. [00:50:38] Speaker B: How is that going now? Are you. You're still doing it, right? [00:50:42] Speaker A: Yes, we are. So it started in Covid times, for sure, but it was very successful in engaging people who were unable to attend the festival because maybe they lived far away or have some other issues or other plans during that time. So we record not all of the shows, but many of the shows in our festival are videotaped, and then we have a second festival, which we call the hangover, that happens in September. And so that's another opportunity for you to support the artists on those stages. The artists select what their ticket price is, so it can be anything from four dollars to forty dollars. I've seen even high ticket prices, but most artists set a lower ticket price, and then they receive 100% of those proceeds to view the shows online. And so I always tell my colleagues, you know, there's only a certain number of people who enjoy the theater in Minnesota, and then there's a certain number of people who enjoy the type of theater you, you might see at the Fringe in Minnesota, and then there's those people who enjoy that type of theater and don't have a cabin or a friend with the cabin. And so because sometimes people are on vacation during the fringe, and this is an opportunity for you to participate in the festival after the festival, and which is why we call it the hangover. Additionally, we're starting a partnership this year with the Phipps in Hudson, Wisconsin, where we're going to have an encore performance of a few select shows in the festival. And they put together a team of people to go around and view as many, if not all of the shows in the festival and then select some for an encore performance in Hudson, Wisconsin, August 14 through 18th. [00:52:32] Speaker B: Okay, so how long will the online version last and how many shows will be in that? [00:52:38] Speaker A: The online version will be September 12 through the 22nd, and then I am not sure how many shows will be in there, because it is an opt in for artists, and they are still opting in, but we usually have between 20 and 30 for sure, and it continues to grow every year, so I wouldn't be surprised if it might be more than 30. And then we will caption shows as well so that you can watch with the closed captioning if you wanted to so. [00:53:11] Speaker B: And then how, I guess you can be from anywhere and watch these, or do you. Yeah, you don't have to be in Minnesota. You can watch from a different state. [00:53:23] Speaker A: Yep. Yep. You can watch from anywhere in the world. [00:53:26] Speaker B: What a great idea to show other states and whatnot what this fringe is like. So they can go and suggest things for their own fringe if they want or, you know, also just get a feel of what, you know, what's going on at other fringes. Do you know other states that are doing the same thing that you are, that are doing online fringes? [00:53:52] Speaker A: I don't know of any other fringe in the US that is doing as extensive of online performance offerings as we are. But I know that some fringes, once Covid restrictions were released, they said, okay, I'm done with that. I don't want to do that anymore. And they did let go of all of their online programming, but we found a great platform to provide that in. And we're just really happy that we can get the artists exposure to people outside of our own little bubble. I mean, certainly there are some of those fringe fanatics that go to 55 shows, and then they go to the online shows and see even more fringe. But some people just aren't able to be at our festival. This allows them to participate as well. [00:54:44] Speaker B: Well, and I would guess most people don't do that. Yeah, that's a little extreme. And good for them that they can have the time to do that, but a lot of people don't. So nice that if, you know, you missed something that you wanted to see at the fringe, there's a chance it could be online and you might be able to catch that. [00:55:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:55:07] Speaker B: When somebody applies for the fringe, how do they do it and how long in advance should they apply? [00:55:13] Speaker A: Okay, so applications open December 1, and all you need is an email address. If you know the title of your show, you can share it, but it is not necessary. So. And there is a graduated fee for applying. It starts at $30, and it goes up $5 every month, and it goes through February 15. And at the end of February, we pick, like I said, ping pong balls out of a bingo cage and decide who's going to be in the festival. [00:55:46] Speaker B: Cool. And then after February, presumably as people drop out, you go back to the ping pong ball, so to speak. [00:55:58] Speaker A: Yeah. We draw everybody on the list of applicants, and so we create a waitlist. [00:56:06] Speaker B: So they have a number regardless. [00:56:09] Speaker A: Yes, they do. And so, you know, it happens every year that somebody might drop out of the festival. So if you're number one on the waitlist, there's a really good chance that you're going to be in the festival. But if you're number 300 on the waitlist, you might want to think about doing an independent production, which is like what I was describing earlier, where artists are getting into non traditional theater spaces, coffee houses, parks, whatever, and still participating in the fringe, because we allow an unlimited number of independent productions to participate, and we'll handle the online marketing and ticketing for them so that they can still be a part of the festival. [00:56:54] Speaker B: If somebody isn't chosen when they apply, do they get their feedback, or is that just the fee for applying? [00:57:02] Speaker A: That's just the fee for applying. And then there is a small production fee once you get selected into the festival for anywhere between $330 and $600, depending on the size and placement of your venue. But that for that entire price, you get a series of workshops that happen all summer. You get a customizable web page so that you can tell everybody about your show. Our web is also interactive, where patrons can leave reviews directly on your webpage. So you get to interact with the people who see your shows. And then we do all of the marketing and the press, and then we rent the venues, hire the teams, the technicians, the front of house, the box office, all the personnel. We take care of all of that. And so for as little as $400, let's say you get all of that, and all you need to do is concentrate on making a great show, and we will take care of the rest. So we have people who are professionals who do this all the time, or maybe even tour the fringe circuit. And then we have folks who have never produced a show before, but they have a compelling story that they want to share, and we provide the platform for everybody in a very egalitarian way. [00:58:25] Speaker B: Well, dawn, I'm going to have to wrap it up, but thank you so much for coming on. This is always enlightening, and it always sounds like you're doing something fun and new, and I really like seeing that. So for all you who have never enjoyed the fringe before, get out and at least make it a goal to see a couple plays or maybe just test out the online thing. You sense this is a global radio show. You can do it from anywhere, which is really cool. I just recommend you do that. So thanks, dawn, for being willing to be on, and good luck with the rest of the summer and with the fringe. [00:59:01] Speaker A: Thank you, Sam. I hope to see you around the fringe. [00:59:03] Speaker B: Yes. Thank you. This has been disability and progress the views expressed on the show are not necessarily those of KFAI or its board of directors. My name is Sam, and I am the host of this show. Charlene Dahl is my pr research person. Miguel is the engineer for today, and Erin is my podcaster for part two. We were speaking with Dawn Bentley. Dawn is the executive director director of the Minnesota Fringe. Part one, we were speaking with Doctor Coral Ho. Doctor Ho is a leading expert in clinical linguistics, talking about how to fix dyslexia. You can always hear us online. If you want to be part of our email list, you can email [email protected]. thanks for joining us.