Episode Transcript
Speaker 2 00:00:38 Um, good evening. Thank you for joining disability and progress, where we bring you insights into ideas about and discussions on disability topics. My name is Sam. I'm the host of this show, Charlene dolls, my research team, Mason engineers, this particular episode, or somebody is engineering it. I am at home doing this. Um, I want to start out by letting your listeners know that this is pledge drive and we do value your support and need your support. Um, the show has been around for over 25 years. Um, that's almost as old as me by the way. Um, and that's a long time to bring insights into an ideas about and educate the public. And that's what we pride ourselves on doing. So I know you value the show because I get your emails and I get your comments. Please donate and show us your financial support.
Speaker 2 00:01:35 You can go to cafe.org, a safe and secure website and do that. Or you can call 6 1 2 3 7 5 9 0 3 0. We are listening to some of the great shows that we have done here and the past year or so to kind of remind you that we are here and needing your financial support. 6 1 2 3 7 5 9 0 3 0 or KFA I dot O R G a. We bring you this show each week and I have a lot of fun doing a lot of these shows. And this one, I think shows a lot that how much fun I did have. I was interviewing Dr. Roger Candace Swami, who is a professor at the university of Minnesota medical school. And he was talking about a solid organ transplant. And this was a really fun show for me to do, but also vitally important for the time that we're living in and have been living in for the past couple of years. So it's really important to know about these things and we value the people who bring us these, this information so we can bring it to you. You can call 6 1 2 3 7 5 9 0 3 0 or cafe.org. And here we go, this listening to some things about organ transplant. Can you tell us currently how many organs can be transplanted?
Speaker 3 00:03:02 Well, the, um, there are various organs in the body that can be transplanted. The most common of course is, uh, kidney transplants. And, uh, that's, uh, the most commonly performed transplants followed by liver transplants. So those two probably predominate other transplants that are performed are, uh, pancreas, um, small intestines, uh, heart lungs, and also, um, more recently, uh, uterus transplants, which should have been performed. Yes. Uh, in addition, yes, that's been done. It's not very common, but it's been done in a few selected centers and we have an interest in it as well. Um, the, uh, other transplants that are done are, um, vascularized composite allografts, I'll tell you what I mean by that. Those are, um, those belonged to tissues that come along with their own blood supply and those include hand and transplants, but people who may have lost their hands due to, uh, accidents and trauma and the, uh, second is face transplants. So those are, uh, other types of transplants that are being performed.
Speaker 2 00:04:09 I think that's fascinating. I'm just curious how, how successful are the uterus transplants?
Speaker 3 00:04:16 Uh, the Urus transplants are a, uh, a transitory transplant. If you will. They have a very defined purpose to provide a, uh, childbearing option, a biological bearing option for the mother. Uh, and so, uh, the need for long-term success is not as, uh, important for uterus transplanted has to, uh, take your first of all, it has to be technically successful and that the operation has to go well, the blood supply and things that have to connect, okay. And the uterus has to thrive. Secondly, it has to get the ability to get pregnant and thirdly, to be able to bear a, um, uh, a full-term pregnancy and once that's done, then the uterus can be removed basically. So, um, it's, it's only done in, uh, in a handful of cases so far in the United States, and there's been, uh, the, uh, the Swedish or the pioneers in that. Uh, so I think there's a small, um, it's a small start, but there's a potential for it to grow in the future. It all depends on competing technologies, as well as to, uh, in vitro fertilization and, uh, now surrogate motherhood, and it's a whole area. We look at the biology of uterine transplants and concentrate on whether or not we can make it work.
Speaker 2 00:05:38 That is fascinating. All right, well, we got a whole lot to get to, so I can't concentrate too much on this, but at some point that would be a fascinating topic. Um, so what are the organs that can be donated without someone having to be, uh, dead donor and donating them? I know kidney is one theoretically liver too, right?
Speaker 3 00:06:03 Yes. You've touched upon an important, uh, classification of organ donors. Um, there's a, uh, one is a living organ donor versus a deceased organ donor. Um, the, uh, if you're talking about a living donation, which is what we'll discuss first, um, a healthy volunteer can donate, um, uh, one kidney since we have two kidneys. Um, at least the, the majority of first, a lot of the great majority of us are blessed with two functioning kidneys. And so are perfectly capable of functioning with one kidney for the rest of our lives. So we could give one up. And that's the most commonly performed, uh, living donor transplant, uh, as far as liver, there's only one liver, but fortunately that's the largest organ in the body, uh, outside of the skin. And therefore there is enough reserve in the liver to be able to give up, uh, up to one half of the liver or even a little bit more, um, if required, um, if you're a healthy donor.
Speaker 3 00:07:07 So, uh, a partial liver donation can be performed and it's being performed in the country, uh, with fair regularity. And, uh, it's a bigger operation for the donor than a kidney, but, uh, it's certainly doable. The third, uh, organ that that's, uh, performed is a pancreas transplant. Um, pancreas is done in cases where someone has advanced diabetes and problems with diabetic control. Often it's combined with a kidney transplant, uh, because diabetes is one of the leading causes of kidney failure. Uh, so again, we only blessed with one pancreas. Therefore it'll have to be a partial pancreas transplant, and that's been performed, uh, less commonly, uh, intestine. A portion of the intestine has been donated and has been performed here at the university of Minnesota and a couple of other centers. And finally lung. Um, you could certainly give a lobe of the lung, um, from a living donor and be able to, um, utilize, uh, two living donors, in fact, make a lung recipient well from a chronic lung failure. So those are the organs where a living donation has been utilized and have been successful.
Speaker 2 00:08:22 I presume that there is a partial amount of our listeners who might be kind of freaking out as opposed to the thought of giving their liver and whatnot. But my understanding is that the liver can grow back, you know, it can regenerate. So yes,
Speaker 3 00:08:39 The liver has an amazing capacity to regenerate. Um, in cases, in extreme cases, the liver can regenerate after losing 85% of its volume, uh, which is, uh, an extreme example. Of course, we would not be pushing those kinds of limits and healthy donors, but most donors can give up, uh, safely 60% of their liver. And, uh, the other 40% will gradually grow back and compensate to provide 100 function, 5% of the function that the body needs.
Speaker 2 00:09:10 Um, so when you do the liver transplant, are you taking exactly half of the liver are only up, less than that.
Speaker 3 00:09:18 So there's a variety of considerations, uh, in, in a adult to child transplant, for example, where the mother or father donates to a baby or a young kid, uh, you probably do not need to take anywhere close to one half. So the liver is divided into eight segments, if you will, a one through eight, and we can just take two segments of the eight and, uh, do a baby transplant with that from an adult, um, in a, um, you know, from when you transplant from one adult to another, you may need more than two segments. And usually it's one half of the liver. And one half of the liver is not exactly a half because the right lobe is larger than the left. Um, so if you do a, uh, if you take the right half of the liver, you're taking probably about 60% of the liver. And if you take the left half of the liver, you're taking about 40%, which one we pick will depend on the, um, recipient and donor size matching, uh, the suitability of the, uh, donor to be able to donate, uh, 60% of their liver and a variety of other factors. So yes, up to 60%, but, uh, many cases lower.
Speaker 2 00:10:28 And so when you do that, then presumably as you said that the liver can start regenerating, um, will it make, like it's the new part B like it's a whole new liver, or is it regenerating from what you already have? And if you already have an older liver, you're going to get an older liver regenerating.
Speaker 3 00:10:49 Uh, it's not like the livers adding new, uh, let's say you, uh, uh, you downsized from a, uh, I don't know what a good analogy would be, but, uh, you downsized from a liver that's, um, uh, 1.5 grams down to one gram. Um, I mean, no, when I say, I mean, 1000 1500 grams to 1000 grams, okay. What can happen within two to three months is that liver that's now downsized to 1000 grows back up to 1500 and sometimes even more, uh, it doesn't form a new, um, if the cells hypertrophy, meaning they, they, they proliferate and they get, um, more functional and can compensate for the, uh, the rest of the, uh, missing liver. Now it doesn't form any new blood vessels. The basic anatomical structures remain the same. It's just gets to be a larger, to be able to accommodate.
Speaker 2 00:12:03 This is cafe 90.3 FM Minneapolis. And KFA I dot O R G also at 6 1 2 3 7 5 9 0 3 0. You probably can hear my dog in the background chewing on her elk antler. I'm lucky enough to be able to do this from home and have still bring to you really important things that I think the disability community values. And in order to do that, we, we do need your support. Please give us your financial support and show us that you are out there. As we know you are 6 1 2 3 7 5 9 0 3 0 or KFA dot O R G. This is another awesome, um, interview I really enjoyed doing with Linda for Dorine Johnson. She brought us her book called the empowered caregiver, and it talks all about how to plan when you're older and need to make those important decisions, or even as a family member, how to approach a parent or loved one or anybody who is getting into the less stable part of their lives sometimes, or just want to make sure that they do have a secure ending. Um, and so she's talking a lot about that. Um, let's listen to her as you show us your support by going to kfa.org. This is not really your first rodeo. I saw you wrote another book I believe on, on aging.
Speaker 4 00:13:38 Just a little short thing.
Speaker 2 00:13:41 Yeah. Why did you feel like a book like this was needed?
Speaker 4 00:13:45 Ah, thank you for asking that the original title that I came up with, you know, you talk to an editor and they, they make you change. That was a pocket support group for family caregivers. And I've been doing support groups besides doing one-on-one counseling and, and lots of care plans and what I call roadmaps for families. But I thought not everyone has the time to take for a support group. They're too busy with their caring or dividing family care and parent care and maybe spousal care and, you know, all the generations of care that they're doing, mostly women. Um, so a puppet support group is something that you could pick up as a resource and not have to read it from cover to cover, which I do recommend, but you don't have to, you could just go to the chapter, this causing you some distress and read it and say, oh, there there's a solution.
Speaker 4 00:14:45 So the concept from the book is, uh, every chapter I write the issue and probably four to six sentences at the most, then I get right in to strategies and examples on sometimes there's lists and checklists, but not, not too many. Um, and then there's an affirmation on every chapter to help people remember what they just read and, and keep them more positive focused on the needs of caregiving. And, you know, again, so many caregivers that I've worked with have had serious illnesses themselves. Um, either, you know, things like aneurysms and strokes and heart attacks before the person they were caring for passed away or were placed because they were over caring. So I thought the book would empower caregivers with the information they needed to have a balance in their life between caregiving and self care. You know, it's, it's an opportunity in a service of love to care for somebody in our family.
Speaker 4 00:15:57 But if we do it in ignore ourself, we're not providing good care actually for our family member, nor are we taking care of our own health. So that's kind of, what's behind the book. Um, and I just recently did a talk with a Parkinson's group. And, um, the people on that podcast that I was talking with said, and talking with me and listening to how the book is constructed, that they felt heard. So the book is not just about the person, just the caregiver. The book is really for all of us, because on, as a journey, we all call life. We are going to house some potholes who are going to fall into it as we live a long life. For sure. And if we live a shorter life, we still fall on each of those potholes prematurely.
Speaker 2 00:16:55 Yeah. I want to start off because you start off with your first chapter. That is, I think, a valuable one, um, called basically caregiving basics. And there's a lot in there, even though I think you, you, you did do a great job of, uh, bridging kind of what you needed to do and the things that everyone should really know. And, uh, but there's a lot to talk about. And you mentioned starting the conversation and the importance of this, um, with your, the, the loved person that you're caring for. Talk a little bit about that. That's
Speaker 4 00:17:36 So when most adult children or people with aging family members, uh, it could be anybody, it could be your sister, your brother, your mother, your father, your grandparents, um, one to say, you should, you need to get a caregiver or you should move to assisted living. Um, they're, they're doing a lot of that and that's not usually successful. So it's setting up that conversation in the beginning is using an I message, which many of us have learned at some point across our educational, uh, and uh, life spectrum. But it's saying I'm concerned about your mom and dad. Can we have a talk about your wishes, uh, as you age and, uh, what you want or don't want. And I always suggest that that not happen where we're facing the holidays right now. So listen, earth, don't do this on Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2 00:18:37 A very wise suggestion.
Speaker 4 00:18:40 Yeah. The day after, if everybody is gathered, that might be a good time and no alcohol, no food, just the conversation. And everybody have a cup of tea or coffee or whatever, but, you know, and sit around and talk with your older family member about what they want. If, if they had a crisis now, maybe you already have enough red flags that they need help, but don't go there right now. Just talk about the, what ifs, what if you broke your hip or mom, wasn't here to help you anymore. Dad, you know, if mom's been the helper, what would you want? Do you want to stay in your own home, uh, with, um, you know, some assistance or do you want to move to one of those really nice assisted livings that have everything from horseback riding to, you know, uh, tours and trips and travel and just all kinds of things. So,
Speaker 2 00:19:35 Um, in general, how easy does this tend to be for people to do and how receptive are there people that are caring for usually,
Speaker 4 00:19:46 Okay. I think it's about 50% receptive and 50% I've I don't need to burden you with that. We've taken care of everything. So it's a resistance and there is, oh, thank God. I I'm. I was worried about that. So I want to talk about that, but I didn't want to burn new kids, but if you want to talk about it, yeah. I I'd rather move closer to one of you. If something happened to dad and the conversation goes a lot smoother, you get more resistance. If there's a dementia element, um, that the person isn't able to see that they have needs and you're going to get resistance. So your strategy is going to be a little bit different. And sometimes you're going to have to use, which I talk about in the books, therapeutic it's, if somebody is more advanced in their dementia and they're a danger to herself or others living alone, um, then you have to take some action.
Speaker 2 00:20:45 You know, you give lists, like you said, usually they're pretty good lists and they're not very, very much, except that you did this list of several things that you should make sure you know about the situation like insurance and medicine, et cetera. There were just several things. And I found, um, not only did that kind of make my head spin thinking of that if I were a caregiver, but, um, that I probably don't have that list written down myself and probably should do that just to make sure. Um, so talk about some of those things that you list in the book that the caregiver really needs to make sure they know.
Speaker 4 00:21:31 Yeah. You, you need to know where your parents' finances come from. How are they automatically deposited? Do they come in a check form? Did mom and dad deposit them every month, um, who has access to those, those checking accounts? Um, do mom and dad have, have they done some legal planning? Do they have a trust? Do they have those advanced healthcare directives? Um, a lot of people say, yes, I have them, but they haven't really, um, signed them or completed them. They have the piece of paper, but they don't have them completed. So you, you, the legal documents, the financial documents where the money comes from, what might they be entitled to? Maybe they, they are low or middle income people and they might be entitled to things they're not taking advantage of. So you kind of want to know a lot, a lot of times, adult older adults don't want to talk finances with their parents, their children they're very closed about that.
Speaker 4 00:22:35 But, uh, sometimes when you open the door with, you know, mom or dad, there might be entitlements that you're missing out on, what's go to, um, a website and see, check it out and see if there might be some other, um, sources for your support. So again, when you say that there might be something that's like free money or something, that's gonna help them. They're more, um, co-operative so again, you want to know, are they entitled to the VA benefit is one of the things that a lot of people don't know about aid and attendance benefits. So, um, you know, if they go to S benefits, benefits, checkup.org, and put in an area information or find, you know, what they're entitled to or not entitled to that goes,
Speaker 2 00:23:26 Go ahead.
Speaker 4 00:23:27 And that's, uh, a broad range of entitlements when I put my own information on and it, uh, it came out, I said, I'm not going to be entitled. Sandy thing is that I was entitled to pass the national parks. So it's really broad and what you're to. So there's the entitlements. And then there are definitely medications, doctors, uh, hospitals that they use, uh, the name of a neighbor. Um, do they have a go bag in case of an emergency, anything from, you know, fires to earthquakes or hurricanes to you? We don't know what kind of dilemma could, uh, be set a capability. So do they have that? Yeah, COVID yeah. Pretty besides getting vaccinations pretty hard to avoid that. Uh, and even then you still have to be careful. Um, so all of these things, I mean, and I have even more in the book that you need to have, and if you have that information, then when there's a crisis, there is the broken hip. If, if your parents haven't planned to move someplace and you live at a distance, you have that information, you could fax it or download it, get it to an emergency room, especially if you are the person that's going to help make decisions. So the more information you have, the easier it is for, um, an emergency team to assist your parent in a crisis.
Speaker 2 00:25:08 This is Kathy. I can put DFM, Minneapolis, and caveat or gee, we are walking down memory lane, listening to some awesome of interviews with that we've done in the past year or two, uh, which is really been kind of a crazy couple of years for everyone. I think this next person that I will be speaking with is Chris dark. And Chris writes, really thought provoking books. And they are ones that are, they're not an easy read. They make you think they make you ask questions. They can even make you angry, but it's all about stirring up the emotions and bringing them to you and showing you what is really happening in the world, which I feel like cafe does. So show us your financial support. We really love to hear from you, and we need that to keep going. And you can do that by going to kvi.org or by calling 6 1 2 3 7 5 9 0 3 0.
Speaker 2 00:26:13 Chris is an author and she wrote her book, their latest one called carnival lights, which is talks about, about, uh, trafficking or native American, um, people, really how they have struggled through their journeys and still are struggling and about the several different topics that many people are not aware of. So let's take a listen to this and please show us your support by going to cafe dot O R G. This true was a fairly intense reading, uh, um, that I did of your book. Probably not as hard for me as Nichols was, but still an equally, I think, important topic set the stage for me about your book.
Speaker 5 00:27:02 Yeah. So the forward story about the two Ojibwe teenage girl cousins, Sharon, Chris, to set in 1969 in Minnesota, and it follows them as they, it follows them just over the course of a few weeks in the summer of 1969, as they leave a fictitious Northern Minnesota reservation to come to Minneapolis. And then there's a lot of backstory that's intertwined about their family, about the reservation system, uh, here in Minnesota. And then it also branches off into, um, other aspects, um, historical aspects of Minnesota it's partially historical fiction. So, um, I guess it is historical fiction and there are, um, there are some historical facts and figures that are in the book that just kind of fit in perfectly with the story. So a lot of it is about identity, um, not just native identity, but also what we now call white identity, which of course, you know, 75, 100 years ago was quite different than how, um, quote unquote white people are, are perceived in this country. There was, you know, ethnic differences. There was, you know, great religious divides and also people were still speaking the languages of the European countries that they came from or had very intense, um, cultural, uh, ties with their European, uh, you know, uh, mother country or, you know, whatever they might call it. So it it's about a lot of different issues. And, um, the whole book is set in Minnesota.
Speaker 2 00:28:44 Um, you know, I notice you have a lot of history, um, about not, I mean, Minnesota yes. But the lakes and, and, um, the reservation and how things changed. That's true. History. I presume.
Speaker 5 00:29:00 Yeah. Yeah. There's a, there's a, um, significant amount of true history. And, and, and I, I, um, kind of take the intuitive research. I I'm actually an academic, I write academic articles and I've done academic research and this kind of research I would say was intuitive research. It would, I would be like, I know this one piece of information about this part of the story. I know that family's finished, but I don't know anything else about them yet. And then I would do a little, you know, a little bit of research and it would just like pop out at me, um, and, and, uh, just fit in really nicely with the fictional story. So it was really an interesting, um, process for me to write this book, uh, to, to blend those ways, um, was really, was really a lot of fun. And also it was satisfying in the sense that I think that, uh, um, white supremacy in Minnesota, uh, you know, and, and these, um, uh, roots, uh, need to be examined and they really need to be brought forward so that, so that we can all, you know, heal from that and, and bring about justice and healing in this, in this state, in this country.
Speaker 2 00:30:12 Yes. I was going to say, I'm sure it's not just the state as we will talk about later. Um,
Speaker 5 00:30:18 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:30:18 How long did it take for you to write this book?
Speaker 5 00:30:22 I actually started this book 20 years ago when I was a graduate student at the university of central Florida. And our professor had us write a little like seven or 10 page imitation of Cormac. McCarthy's all the pretty horses. And these two characters, they just like jumped out, just jumped on the page and there they were. And they came with their names and everything. Um, And so my professor took me aside after he read it. And he said, you have a responsibility to these characters to finish this, turn it into a book. And I remember thinking at
Speaker 2 00:30:56 The time I
Speaker 5 00:30:59 Can't write, I can't write a book, but I always carried that sense of responsibility. And, um, you know, I think this book, um, this, this book has its own reasons and the story has its own own reason and purpose. And, um, I think this is just when it needed to come out.
Speaker 2 00:31:18 Talk about, you know, what gave you an interest in this particular story for writing a story like this? What made you feel like you had to do it?
Speaker 5 00:31:31 Well? Um, I think, I think partly, uh, my, my, my feeling is that, um, you know, that, that the story came. I think the story came to me and I felt responsible and I felt tasked in a sense to write it. Uh, and you know, this is a story of, of, um, my family. Uh, this is a story of my community. This is a story of my ancestors. And I don't mean that, you know, in a, in an absolute literal, you know, this, this is obviously a fictional piece, but it's written out of that spirit. And, you know, I think a lot of times, um, readers might not understand how much truth is in fiction. And there'll be like, well, I don't want to read that. It's, it's not meal it's fiction. I want to read non-fiction, but when we're writing, non-fiction, we're doing a lot more censoring. Um, and, and, you know, making maybe ourselves look a little better or whatever, or not saying something, but with fiction, you've got a, you've got a green light. And, um, so this story is, you know, the story is it's about my past too. It's about my community's past
Speaker 2 00:32:48 You talk in the book, um, about fear of the police and in carnival lights. And this is, this is bothersome to me. Um, and it's not just in regards to the native culture. You know, I think a lot of other cultures, the African-American culture, many other cultures experienced fear of the police. And this is sad to me because there's supposed to be the protectors, right. They are supposed to be the ones that look over you watch out for you and protect you, but constantly these two main characters, um, shear and Chris, Kristen are terrified of them in some ways, in many ways. Can you talk a little about that?
Speaker 5 00:33:43 Yeah. I, you know, um, obviously I, I don't speak for, you know,
Speaker 2 00:33:49 Is that a true feeling though, in the native community?
Speaker 5 00:33:53 Oh yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's absolutely my feeling too. Um, you know, uh, I think there's, uh, a lot of, um, fear of the police. There's a lot of, um, and it's not just, uh, that it's something that's in our head, you know, and we need to get over it's because the police have been complicit or actual perpetrators. Um, not every police officer, obviously. I'm not saying that, but, um, as an institution, unfortunately, you know, it has, it has had a often a very negative impact on the native community, especially when you're talking about homeless, native people, especially when you're talking about sexually abused sex traffic, um, people in general. And, and then, you know, also particularly, uh, native folks as well. And again, I'm not saying that every police officer is bad or any, you know, that's not what I'm saying, but, um, institutionally that unfortunately has been the way that it, it has largely played out in our communities.
Speaker 2 00:34:57 Well, you can find, unfortunately you can find people's real videos all the time about how the police are failing in public. And I am hopeful, but this will change, but it, it does feel surprisingly terrifying. Um, and if people don't realize, or if they think they're totally safe and it can never happen to you just because you're white. I really don't think that that's true and think that it will probably happen less, but you still need to be aware of what's going on that it's, you know,
Speaker 5 00:35:37 I've never, I've never considered the police to be something that would protect me or that wouldn't do anything positive for me, you know, personally, I've never experienced that feeling and I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but I mean, I'm just, you know, that's just where I'm coming from.
Speaker 2 00:35:55 I want to talk about Christian. She goes through many changes, um, various changes when she's in the church bathroom, what happens there? Is she just really like looking back on things or is she having difficulties mentally?
Speaker 5 00:36:16 Yeah. So, um, Chris or Kristen, she, she goes by both names in the book. Um, she, uh, her father, um, abused her and abused and did some things to her mother as well when she was very young. And she, the, the book and Glenn exemplifies how she carries that forward, how she survives that, and her cousin, Chris, like will comment on occasion, you know, like she sees Chris wallowing in, did I say her cousin, Chris, her cousin, share her cousin share comments on occasion about how see she will see sort of this chain come over Chris. And she calls her little Chris. And so, um, I don't want to give away the, you know, some of the stories. So I'll just say that, you know, she was a very young when her father was, um, you know, harming her and her mother and then that continued on until she, she left and when people carry that and it, it, um, it comes out in a variety of ways.
Speaker 5 00:37:24 And with her it's, uh, sometimes it's like a regression where she was, she turns into a much younger, um, you know, part or aspect of herself. And sometimes she's kind of cycling through like, um, Jacob, you know, also in the book, uh, um, a gay teen teenage Jewish boy that they meet up with in Minneapolis, they will kind of cycle through some of their trauma. And with his, you know, he's also got a lot of drug abuse that's going on with that, but, um, it's a cycling through of, of the, um, the harm and the different, you know, sometimes people can develop these, uh, what they call dissociation, uh, you know, these states where, where, you know, you're, uh, a different age or you might even be a different, you know, somebody, some part of you that adapted a different name in order to survive, whatever trauma you went through.
Speaker 2 00:38:15 So in the, in the, in a sense it didn't happen to them. It happened to somebody else,
Speaker 5 00:38:21 Right? Yep, exactly. Exactly. It's a, it's a skillful coping mechanism and, uh, you know, um, the dominant culture in the us, you know, what looks at it as a pathology and it's actually called a disorder. Um, and I was talking to my west end or a whole Glen once about it. Now I went in and the Ojibwe way, he's kind of like a bad a godparent. Uh, he was, uh, um, he's, he's passed now, but he was an Indian doctor, a spiritual person. Um, and you know, he said, oh, what are they saying now? And so I explained to him what that meant. And he said, he said, oh, that's, that's a gift from the spirits. Um, and, um, he said, I had to walk all over Canada and the U S to learn those ways. And so, you know, I think it, it's just, uh, that's one of obviously the major scenes in the book, right. Are these cultural differences between in this particular book, the Ojibwe, um, traditions, and then, you know, the dominant white culture that, that we all exist in. Hmm.
Speaker 2 00:39:33 Yes. And, and also how they pass on, you know, their culture and their history, where, and what they choose to pass on right Now. Not always everything, they, they pass on what they feel. It seems like strengths, what they can make their, their children's stronger.
Speaker 5 00:39:53 Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, that's, that's a, you know, like you're saying, that's, that's something that happens over and over again in the book. And, you know, sometimes people will be like, oh, the, you know, this book was really about, uh, you know, there's, uh, abuse happening in it. There's homelessness and this, but to me, the book is like, really like the backbone of this book is, is just the, the love, um, and the cultural traditions and strengths of the Ojibwe to be able to survive, um, what our ancestors survived and what, frankly, we're still surviving in many ways, uh, right now, um, those, those ways I, you know, uh, I think are very evident in the book. And I remember getting those, those kinds of teachings from my grandmothers. Um, you couldn't talk about it specifically, or, you know, outwardly, but you, you, you made those teachings evident by how you lived and the ways that you treated people.
Speaker 5 00:40:52 Um, and I learned a lot of that from my grandmothers and, um, uh, I'm very, very thankful for that. They were, um, models for me that were very different from some of the other people in my life who were, you know, very violent and destructive. And I could survive that because I had my grandmothers in my, in my life to show me another way to model that for me. And so there's a lot of that happening in the book. And, you know, a lot of people aren't aware that, uh, indigenous, uh, religious ways or spiritual ways our ceremonies were outlawed in the United States of America until 1978, it was illegal to practice our traditions and our cultures in this country in 1978, the land
Speaker 2 00:41:48 Of religious freedom, huh?
Speaker 5 00:41:50 Yep. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:41:51 Unreal.
Speaker 2 00:42:04 Hi, this is Kathy I, 90.3, FM Minneapolis and kfc.org. This is disability and progress. My name is Sam. We're speaking with Andy <inaudible> Andy's customer service manager, um, for Metro mobility. So there's a lot of, uh, rides that get made through Metro mobility. And there's now more than one different way to make a ride. Can you go to the different ways and how people can schedule a ride and how that's done?
Speaker 6 00:42:34 Yeah. We have a number of them certainly still by far the most popular way. And the classic way is to do so by phone, when someone is certified, they will get a temporary Metro mobility card that has the phone number of their particular provider on it. We kind of split our service area into three trunk, three chunks, um, one Western, um, uh, which is kind of Minneapolis and the Western suburbs, um, one Eastern, um, St. Paul, uh, and the east suburbs plus up into like a notepad county. Um, and then, uh, the Southern area, which is Bloomington and Richfield on south into Dakota county. Um, uh, and each of these has, you know, is held by three different counts, uh, three different phone numbers, uh, three different stats. Um, and calling is still the way the vast majority of, uh, bookings are made. Uh, however, it is not the only way as you pointed out, we have an extremely small number of folks for whom it works best to fax.
Speaker 6 00:43:45 Um, and you can do that at each of the providers. Uh, uh, we still require that they have the old Relic, the TTY, so you can use a TTY still, um, uh, to book the ride at the providers. Um, and then, uh, you can email, uh, which is, is gaining popularity, fire off an email to book a ride. And then finally, another way that is back and increasing in popularity is the online booking app. If you go to Metro mobility dot RG, uh, under the scheduling, a header and the book, your trip, online button, that's within the scheduling header, uh, then you can book a trip yourself online without interacting with a reservationist at all. However, before you do that, uh, you do need to call my staff at six five one six two zero two one one one one. Um, and, uh, just get set up with a password.
Speaker 2 00:44:53 You talked about the Metro mobility app. I think that's happening more and more in regards to having apps, to schedule things where does one find that and how does that work?
Speaker 6 00:45:07 Well, the Metro mobility online booking app is set up to be mobile site friendly. So it functions like an app, but it really is just a, it's a website. It is, it is, uh, within our website. So if you go to Metro mobility again, dot org, go to that scheduling trips section, and then within the scheduling trip section, there'll be a book, your trip online, you just click that and you'll be right at the online trip booking site for the core Metro mobility service.
Speaker 2 00:45:40 Now I want to point out that I think, um, if I'm correct that if you're going to book a ride like that they had has to line up as far as the times that your trying to, to book, not that you're asking for, but the time when you're, when you go to make the ride, it has to be during, um, Metro mobility, um, service hours, right? Like from six to five or whatever, right. You can't go schedule right after five, right.
Speaker 6 00:46:14 Uh, you can do that, uh, for days that are not, uh, uh, the next day. Um, so if, if you wanted to book a ride, uh, today for Saturday, and you can book rise for Metro mobility up to four days in advance. So on a Thursday, you could book a ride for a Friday, Saturday, Sunday, or Monday, um, and you could call or go online rather right now, um, and book a ride for Saturday, Sunday or Monday. Uh, however, you could not do it for Friday, um, because reservations is closed and we didn't want to give, you know, unfair advantage to folks who have the means to afford a computer, uh, somebody who does not have a computer for whatever reason can no longer book a ride, uh, for the next day after 5:00 PM. And we wanted to make sure that that was also the case, um, uh, for folks who did have internet access.
Speaker 2 00:47:13 Gotcha. Um, during the pandemic, you did something that I thought was really awesome and it was called curb to curb service. Talk about what that is and how does it work and do we still have, and are we keeping it?
Speaker 6 00:47:33 Yeah. Um, the curbside service as we kind of named, it was a response to the pandemic and specifically a response to, uh, the early days of the COVID-19 outbreak, where some dispensary's and, uh, shrug stores, even, and banks were closing their stores, not letting people come inside, but we're allowing them to pull up and pick something up, you know, use the ATM in the case of a bank, or just come and grab a script and the case of a pharmacy or dispensary. Um, and in response to that, um, we've, we kind of altered how much to mobility does things in those cases. Typically, um, each, each one way trip for Metro mobility is a separate ride on a separate bus with a separate driver, both of which need to be booked at least one day in advance. You know, we, we don't do a will call type thing, right.
Speaker 6 00:48:32 Um, uh, you've got to book your ride at least the day before and say, what time either you want to get picked up, uh, at your starting point or what time you want to be at your destination. And then again, what time do you want to get picked up at that destination and brought back, uh, to your point of origin? So what we changed is we said, basically you can have up to 20 minutes, um, where you're still paying two different fairs and it still counts as two different rides. Um, but that plus we'll just wait for you curbside, where if you call and book a curbside ride, that bus will pick you up, bring you to wherever you're going and wait for you up to 20 minutes. Um, and that, uh, has been, I think, a real success. Um, I think customers have liked that convenience, particularly for just real short trips, if they just needed to run in and grab something quick, uh, not just in those examples that we gave, but again, you know, any number of situations where you really just needed 30 seconds or a couple of minutes or anything up to 20 minutes, uh, to run in and take care of something real quickly, uh, to save on the hassle of having to wait for another bus.
Speaker 6 00:49:49 Um, and, uh, on the contractor side of things, it was nice for them not to have to try to find another bus, uh, uh, that would fit for the return trip and route that, so it's not without its advantages also for the contractor, um, uh, seemed like a win-win as long as it was used sparingly. And, uh, we've got a very savvy ridership. And what did happen in some cases is we had, um, customers booking a chain of curbside rides to essentially commandeer a bus for an entire day. And we clearly can't do that. Um, so what we is, we started to limit, uh, curbside brides to one per customer per day, one round trip. Um, or it doesn't necessarily have to be around shrimp, but, uh, one ride where the bus will wait for you one time at the curb for up to 20 minutes. Um, and as long as, uh, customers can keep it to, they have, we do have hopes that that's going to be sustainable, uh, even post pandemic. We are still doing it now. Um, we are doing it on a pilot basis, hoping to continue to do that indefinitely into the future.
Speaker 2 00:51:02 And is it monetarily beneficial for the providers?
Speaker 6 00:51:08 Um, you know, not, it's not necessarily, um, but, but perhaps, you know, they're not having to spend the time trying to, um, find another home, um, for that return ride. Uh, they're not having to spend the time trying to physically, you know, move that booking onto the bus and those types of things, but a bus is sitting idle for up to 20 minutes to, that could otherwise be in use. So there are monetary, uh, advantages and monetary disadvantages potentially. And I think it, it depends on the particular case to say whether or not, um, you know, that sort of a financial benefit to the provider. Uh, what I can say is, is, uh, all things considered. It is never a substantial detriment. Um, then as long as we're limiting it to one a day, um, it's really, uh, you know, not, not ever a substantial detriment compared to sending a second bus.
Speaker 2 00:52:10 So Andy, besides the great curb sides and, um, Metro mobility making rides system, there is something that does happen called same day. Can you explain how that works?
Speaker 6 00:52:26 Sure. Um, ADA paratransit really is designed to be, you know, shared by public transit. So yeah, we're picking you up right at where you're starting from and dropping you off right. At wherever you're going, but in between there, we're picking up and dropping off other people too, just like other forms of city busing, dude. Um, also, uh, a function inherent to ADA paratransit is that you've got to book the ride at least one day in advance. Um, but we recognized that, um, for some folks, a shared ride, transportation just doesn't work well for whatever reason. And, um, there are times when needing to book a ride one day in advance, uh, doesn't avail itself to spontaneity, um, or emergencies that might pop up. So to kind of address those things, uh, we have partnered with a cab company, uh, taxi services, Inc, uh, to provide a premium same-day service, uh, which has just a private taxi cab, uh, does not have the same S four rules or anything. It is just, uh, your typical cab ride like anybody might take with, or without a disability. Um, but Metro mobility subsidizes, um, uh, some of that fair, how it works is, uh, the customer pays the first $5 of the metered fair. And then Metro mobility pays up to the next $15 of that fair. And then the customer is back on the hook for anything over that.
Speaker 2 00:54:01 So my rides, 30 bucks, I pay for the first five, you pay for the next 15, and then I pay for the rest of the 30 after.
Speaker 6 00:54:11 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:54:12 All right. There is an app though that works pretty nifty with this. Talk about that.
Speaker 6 00:54:20 Sure. Uh, similar to the way that you can go to Metro mobility.org and book your Metro mobility trip online. Um, uh, there is, uh, uh, wide, uh, hailing service called I hail, which is an imprint of taxi services, Inc. Um, and it basically makes it function sort of like a transportation networking company, like an Uber or Lyft, uh, you can rate your driver. Um, but obviously you can, you can book your ride, um, tell where the cab is as it's on its way to you and those types of things, um, that is available for Android devices and iOS devices. And it's just called <inaudible>. Um, uh, I, and then hail, like hail a taxi, H a I L um, I should point out too that, um, uh, for folks who want to use it on a desktop, um, you can also do that rather than having it just be on a device to access it on a, on a computer. You can go to E ride dot T plus ride T for transportation plus ride.com/ay,
Speaker 2 00:55:40 It's the iHealth app in that, in the app store.
Speaker 2 00:55:45 So one of the neat things I think now is that when you're booking your ride, um, can, you can see where the Metro mobility or where the cab is, you know, the same day cab, which is a discount cap pretty much, but you can see where that is, how far that is from you. So if they're just two miles away, it might say two miles or five minutes or something like that. So it gives you a timeline to kind of work with, um, you know, because stuff happens. You need to go use a little girl's room, or you need to grab a drink of water, or, um, your kid, all of a sudden tucks their shoe off and, and you are frantically searching for it. So, so many things can happen. And so it gives you an idea of where that right is so that you can be more properly prepared.
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