Disability and Progress-March 28, 2024-Disability Film Challenge

[00:00:58] Speaker A: Greetings and thank you for joining disability and progress, where we bring you insights into ideas about and discussions on disability topics. My name is Sam. I'm the host of this show. Charlene Dahl is my research and pr woman. Hello, Charlene. Good afternoon. Good evening, everyone. Warm morning or whatever it is. I'd like to thank Erin, who's back from vacation. Erin is my podcaster. Thank you, Erin, and welcome, everyone, to the show. We are speaking, we are going to be speaking with Nick Novicki. Nick is the founder and director of the disability Film Challenge, and he will be talking about the disability film challenge and discussing about bringing together the world's first disability group, loop, and many other things. So. Hi, Nick. [00:01:47] Speaker B: Hey, everybody. My name is Nick Novicki. I am a little person wearing a striped shirt by trade. I'm an actor, comedian, and producer, and I've been very lucky that I've been in over 40 tv shows and movies, including Boardwalk Empire, the Sopranos, the Good Doctor, louder milk, Spider man, across the spider verse. But the majority of my work has been self driven, with me writing and producing, creating my own content, touring as a comedian, mostly because I'm three foot ten, so people weren't really writing roles for me. [00:02:22] Speaker A: Right. [00:02:22] Speaker B: So I want to kind of create my own work. [00:02:26] Speaker A: So I'm curious. It sounds like you've had quite a bit of acting and whatnot. So when you did this, has it been difficult to get the roles that you've gotten and was there, like, did they have to work around, have workarounds for you? [00:02:45] Speaker B: You know, I think the entertainment industry is a hard business, no matter what. Breaking in is not easy, whether you have a disability or whether you don't. [00:02:53] Speaker A: Right. [00:02:54] Speaker B: I think sometimes in some senses, it was easier for me to break in initially because I was getting auditions for big projects, but they were only related to my height. So getting auditions for roles that weren't specific to me, being a little person was tough. So that's why I kind of started to produce and create my own content to showcase myself the way I wanted to be showcased. [00:03:20] Speaker A: Right. [00:03:21] Speaker B: In terms of accommodations that were needed for me to be able to do the job. I've been pretty good at figuring out a way to always accommodate for myself, whether it be sitting down because I can't stand for very long periods of time or getting a stool. I think as people with disabilities, we're kind of entrepreneurs in life in the sense that we know how to adapt. So I don't think it's really ever been hard for me. I've always come up with solutions and been up front about things that I couldn't really do, whether it be a stunt or something else that they wanted for me, I always kind of came up with my own idea of a different solution. [00:04:08] Speaker A: I see Easter seals paired with a disability film challenge a lot, and can you talk a little bit about them? And for anybody who doesn't know who they are and what they do? [00:04:21] Speaker B: So my story really was that as being an artist, being a comedian, an actor, producer, creating my own content. Eleven years ago, I looked around, I said, why aren't more people with disabilities creating their content? [00:04:34] Speaker A: Right. [00:04:34] Speaker B: So I created the disability Film Challenge, which is an annual five day filmmaking competition where you have to have somebody with a disability in front of or behind the camera. It started off small. We had a couple films that first year, but right away we had auditions that came to our participants, other opportunities. So it kind of kept growing year after year. And then in 2017, I partnered with Easter Seals, Southern California. Easter Seals is the nation's largest disability services organization. They've been around for 100 years. I'm on the board of directors of Easter Sales, Southern California. Now, to date, we've had over 600 films created from around the world. It's led to a lot of opportunities for our participants, and, you know, I'm just so excited for the trajectory of what's been happening, all the jobs people have been getting. Next week, we have our 11th annual film challenge happening, where participants from around the world will be making a film based on our buddy comedy genre. [00:05:38] Speaker A: So I want to dive into a little more about this. The disability film challenge is what you call it, correct. [00:05:47] Speaker B: That's correct. That was. And if disabilityfilmchallenge.com walks through all the details, that's how you can learn about the films, register and get involved. [00:05:59] Speaker A: How many people do you get that usually, you know, try to apply for giving, you know, the film challenge. How. How many films do you generally get, and do you play them all? [00:06:16] Speaker B: Mm hmm. That's a great question. So last year, we had a record breaking hundred, 15 films that were created from around the world. So, you know, I'm very proud of that, and I'm very proud of all the hard work and talent that went into it and all of the support we get from the community as well. In terms of how many people are a part of each film. Some films can have one person that's a part of it. Some can have up to 30, 40, 50 people part of their films, as actors, as crew members, as supporters. Every film is made as I said, during those five days. So April 2 to April 7, you have to register before Monday, April 1, to get the full assignment and to be an official entrant. The website disabilityfilmchallenge.com walks you through that. It also walks you through our schedule and our timeline because the films are made during April 2 to April 7. Then the following weekend, on Saturday, April 13, all the films go live. [00:07:28] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [00:07:28] Speaker B: And every film goes on our YouTube page, our Instagram page, and our Facebook page. And each participant competes in an awareness campaign to get as many likes, views, and shares for their films. [00:07:41] Speaker A: So this is pretty much a five day time that they get to make the film? [00:07:46] Speaker B: That's right. [00:07:47] Speaker A: And what's the timeline like? Is it a 30 minutes timeline? Is it a 15 minutes timeline? [00:07:55] Speaker B: So these are one to five minute films. [00:07:57] Speaker A: Okay. So the plot kind of needs, or whatever you're doing needs to be to the point. And it sounds like there's a. That you've specified what you want them to do. Or do they get to choose? [00:08:11] Speaker B: Exactly. So the genre is different every year. Okay, so we already announced that this year the genre is buddy comedy, but we won't announce the sub themes. So those are sub themes that are within the challenge or props or locations to choose from. Those will appear to all registered participants when they receive the email of the assignment. And that comes on Tuesday, April 2. But what I also love, too, is that even though it's all the same assignment, we get so many different interpretations of that assignment, different funny films. Some are more touching, some are more heartfelt, and I love that. [00:08:58] Speaker A: And they presumably don't have to be there. In California, they do their film, you know, wherever they are, and submit it, or how does that work? [00:09:10] Speaker B: Mm hmm. So we have films that are made from all over the world. We've had films made in Egypt, India, Europe, Israel, you know, all over South America, Central America. You have to register, and you register anywhere you are, and then you'll make your film, and you make your film wherever you are, and then you give it to us and make sure it's downloadable. We take that film and then we put it on our channels and. And, you know, and that's where people are found. We do have an award ceremony, which is in person, but the vast majority of what we do is remote, it's online. And, you know, people are able to just kind of make films from wherever they are and tap into their local network. And also this is a showcase for them. And everybody owns their own film, so they'll be able to get other opportunities. They could turn it into a larger project after the competition is done. [00:10:11] Speaker A: Great. Nick, I'm wondering, you know, it's not new for these films and movies and shows to feature some type of person with a disability in their shows or movies. But what seems to be a little more happening now is that they're actually using people as disabilities. Even though they have been promoting, you know, stuff with a person, you know, having a disability in their shows, they, they didn't, they often didn't use somebody with a disability. And I'm curious what your view is on this. Like, what was the turnaround that made them start accepting more? Because people have been in acting for a long time. It's not like we're just new breaking into acting. People with disabilities, as you said, have been doing this for a while, but now you're seeing a little bit more of people being accepting, playing their own parts in, like, movies or shows. What's changed? [00:11:20] Speaker B: Well, I think there's been a lot of people doing great work for years, a lot of activists, you know, Judy Heumann, you know, been around for, you know, going way back, you know, with which I love that her story was depicted so beautifully in crip camp, and there's been so many pioneers. Marlee Matlin, you know, first Oscar winner within the disability community being deaf. [00:11:49] Speaker A: Right. [00:11:50] Speaker B: You know, actually, not first. There was the Harold Russell who won an Oscar for, you know, and there's been a lot of people doing great work in terms of what has changed. I think society has changed. I think we, as consumers want authentic representation. We want to see ourselves represented. According to a study from the CDC, one in four Americans identifies as having a disability. So that's roughly, you know, one in four. That's 61 million Americans that, that identify as having a disability. But we are not represented enough now. [00:12:30] Speaker A: Right. [00:12:31] Speaker B: We definitely have way better representation than we had. I've been a comedian and an actor for over 20 years. So from when I started to now, it's night and day, the amount of support from the industry. But I think something that has really moved the needle is people with disabilities making their own films and their own content and being able to showcase themselves and showcase themselves in the best way, because that's what I think really is where you get true progressive. [00:13:07] Speaker A: Ah, yes, yes. Slow but steady. Right. I'm just. So now I want to dive in to talk about the disability loop group, and can you explain what the disability loop group is and what its primary objectives are? [00:13:27] Speaker B: So, as I said, I've been very lucky in my career, a lot of tv shows, a lot of movies. I was in the movie Spider man across the Spider Verse, where I played Lego Spider man in a movie that was just nominated for an Economy award. Sony Pictures and Sony Pictures Animation produced that movie. Sony Pictures has been very supportive of the film challenge. Our award ceremony is at Sony Pictures and has been since 2019. So they have been extremely supportive and we have beyond done the annual film challenge. We do professional development throughout the year. We've done workshops in writing, in producing, in editing, all these different workshops, including we've done numerous voiceover workshops, and we created a lookbook of talented voiceover artists. And we were getting ready to do a voiceover workshop with Sony Pictures and Sony Pictures Animation. And, you know, I talked to them about how the fact that I've been a part of Loop groups where I've been hired to be on a team of other loop group artists. Now, what is a loop group and what is loop group work? So when you're watching a movie or a tv show, you'll see the actors and you'll see them talking. Now, there's also voices and noises and other atmosphere that goes on beyond the actors on camera, and in some cases, that could be redoing somebody's voice. It happens a lot in animation, but certainly in live action film and tv as well. So we talked about this, and I shared about all the talented film challenge participants. And so with the support of Sony Pictures, Sony Pictures Animation, we put together the first ever disability loop group, getting advice, getting support, getting guidance from executives at Sony who really, you know, Sony Pictures animation, these are huge casting directors, producers, you know, learning from the system, from loop group leaders, and ultimately getting the opportunity to put ourselves on tape and get more experience. And it's already leading to jobs. So I'm very excited about it. If you go to disabilityfilmchallenge.com, you hit our workshop tab. You can learn about the loop group and hit our the loop group tab, and you'll learn about who we are. You can see our individual IMDb links. You could watch a recap about what we did there and about who we are. [00:16:20] Speaker A: Do you have, can you give us some ideas on what some common challenges are for people with disabilities, what they face when they're coming to apply for a role? [00:16:33] Speaker B: You know, I try not to focus on the challenges. For me, I'm a solution orientated guy. You know, my goal as an actor and a comedian has always been not to worry about what the challenges are, but what more can I do to put myself in a position to get hired? And I think that is, be in class, do as much content as you can on your own. I think now with DSLR cameras, we have the ability to do that. I think making sure you speak up if there's something that you're going to be able to do your audition from home in a better way, whether that be for an accessibility purpose for you. I've. I've noticed that casting producers, they want it. They want you to get these farts. I think that the. The myth that they're against us, whether you have a disability or whether you don't, is actually wrong. I think casting directors, producers, networks, they're rooting for everybody, including people with disabilities. And I think now what I've seen through the film challenge and the outreach that we get is the industry really wants to include us more, and they want to bring us in, and they want to hire us. And I'm very optimistic about the future and all these opportunities that we're going to get. [00:17:58] Speaker A: Do you think, though, that it could matter on the type of disability you have, or. I mean, or do you think that film directors are going to view each disability equally? [00:18:14] Speaker B: You know, I think it depends on what kind of role somebody's auditioning for. For me as a little person, if I'm going to be auditioning to play somebody who plays in the NBA, I'm three foot ten, so it's not easy to make me look like I probably not the role next to Shaquille O'Neal, you know? And maybe it is. Maybe there's a way, a fun way to do that or a comedic way, but that involves a rewrite, right? I think it is about being realistic, whether you have a disability or whether you don't, roles are written for people. I think what's amazing and something that I'm so excited about is we've seen non traditional casting really happen and happen in an amazing way beyond the disability community. And you look at the movie or the Broadway play Hamilton, you know, and how they were able to reinvent what George Washington and all these people were and through hip hop and what they looked like and how they carried themselves. I think audiences are smarter than we think, but in terms of, you know, for particular roles, would one disability be better than another? I think beyond disabilities, I think people have to be fitting of certain parts, and I think that's the creativity that's involved of a writer and a director and a producer to figure out how to think outside the box and make one person's disability or the way one person looks merge within the story and the script. [00:19:54] Speaker A: You know, technology has. I mean, there's just been kind of an explosion of technology, and I'm wondering if you feel like that has enhanced accessibility for people with disabilities in different roles. [00:20:11] Speaker B: I do. I think technology has been amazing in the fact that just right now I'm able to do this interview from my home, you know, and if we did not have the ability to do this remote, I would have to be there in person. [00:20:32] Speaker A: This is true. [00:20:33] Speaker B: Now I'm able to travel a lot, but also there is wear and tear in my body, to be honest. And the longer I tour, the older I get, there is more wear and tear. So it is nice to be able to do certain interviews from home to be able to access things. And we've seen that time and time again through the film challenge, our award ceremony, we live stream. We make it interactive, thanks to Microsoft Teams. So participants can be, if they're not able to be there in person for accessibility reasons, they're still able to be there. An ASL interpreter is able to come in to a live stream chat and be able to communicate with somebody deaf. We're able to take videos and create captions the same day to the videos. So I think the technology is really there in a big way to help people with disabilities. Has it made the world fully accessible? No, not really, but it's definitely made leaps and bounds improvements. [00:21:34] Speaker A: You mentioned ASL interpretation. I trust that you're doing audio description as well. [00:21:41] Speaker B: Yeah, so we. We. So, yeah, the actual. The films themselves, everybody, you know, they make films for the challenge, you know, so we encourage everybody to, you know, make their films as accessible as they can. And, you know, I really. I think audio description, something else that I think is really important is think about ways to, you know, incorporate audio description into your work, into who you are, into your conversations. You know, when I started this interview, I said, you know, hey, I'm a little person wearing a striped shirt, you know? [00:22:22] Speaker A: Right. I want to talk a little bit, Nick, about voiceovers, because I saw that people did a lot of voiceover stuff, kind of with different things on the website. But one of the things that at least I have found in the twin cities is that, you know, voiceovers is a big. It feels like, I don't know if industry is the right word, but it. It's taken by a lot of, like, actors and. And theater and whatnot. And so if you're not a theater person and you're trying to break into voiceover, it can be pretty tough. Do you have suggestions or what? How do you guide people when they come to you and talk about that? [00:23:07] Speaker B: Sure, that's a great question. You know, I think it's a little cliche to say, but the more you do things, the better you're gonna get. So I got into voiceover by taking a class, and I found this voiceover class to be very helpful. It gave me tools to get started. It taught me about taking breaths and pacing, which, you know, as somebody, I just like to just get out there and keep talking. But, you know, I was able to learn techniques and there are techniques there. So I think YouTube also has a lot of great resources, whether you want to be a voiceover artist, a comedian, a writer, an editor. There's so many how to videos now on YouTube that can give you advice. But for me, you know, people ask me questions all the time. How do I get into voiceover? How do I get into stand up comedy? How do I get into writing or acting? Well, for stand up comedy, I've been doing stand up comedy since 2001. So it is a matter of comedians. You need to get on stage very often. I've been, you know, very lucky in the sense that I've just had a love for it. So I think, first and foremost, don't put too much pressure on yourselves. Just work on it and also continue to work on other things because you may like something else more if you start voiceover and you go, yeah, I don't know if I like doing this. I kind of like editing this more than the actual voiceover. Well, you know what? Guess what? There's opportunities for you to be an editor. So I would say do as much as you can on your own and practice makes you better and puts you in a better position to get opportunities. [00:24:59] Speaker A: Do you feel like one of the things that always worries me when I look at different classes is, you know, as a person who is visually impaired, will they be accessible? So what's your advice on that? If somebody's worried about when they walk into a class or they're going to go into a class nowadays, it's kind of hard sometimes to contact the class people, but you want to make sure it's going to be accessible, whatever your disability is for you. So what would you suggest some? [00:25:30] Speaker B: I would start by asking, you know, contacting the teacher, the class, and saying, hey, I'm a little person. I just want to make sure I'm going to be able to hit the elevator button and I come in or you know, I'm a wheelchair user. I want to make sure there is an elevator. It's not upstairs. I'm, you know, blind. I need, you know, my sides to be in a word document so my screen reader can follow along with it. I think, you know, being intentional and asking people is going to help make sure that you're walking into the right situation. To be 100% honest, too, there are certain schools and teachers. It's been a hard couple of years for some of the education with the pandemic. It's been not easy for certain schools to stay open. So sometimes it could be one on one coaching that you could be getting. And if that's the case, that'd be awesome. That's awesome. Yeah. So, you know, and I think some of this also depends on the budget. What kind of budget do you have? How much do things cost? And, you know, as I said, at the end of the day, you could, if you're, if you want to be into voiceover, the end of the day, it's about being as good as possible at reading copy. So even if you have the newspaper or an article that you could just read for yourself and use a voice memo to practice reading this and reading it in different intentions. I'm going to read it slow now. I'm going to read it faster. I'm going to read it like I'm mad that you can do so many things to work on craft depending on your budget to where you are. So I always say people don't let I don't have the funding in place be the deterrent for why you can't get a certain job or opportunity. [00:27:49] Speaker A: So if we're looking ahead to what are some key priorities or, you know, goals for disability loop groups in the coming years and how they can more broad in the community contribute, how, what are your suggestions? [00:28:09] Speaker B: Well, one, my goal is to get our group hired. The goal of the challenge is to get people with disabilities hired in front of and behind the camera. And that's really what the loop group is. You know, it's about showcasing talented people with disabilities. And we're ready. We're ready for the jobs. We're ready to be brought into tv shows and films and be hired. So that's really what I'm so excited about is, you know, the group speaks for ourselves. Some people will be hired individually versus the full group, similar to other groups beyond a disability loop group. [00:28:50] Speaker A: So can you give me again the dates of the five day disability film challenge and how where people can go. [00:28:59] Speaker B: To apply so this year, our 11th annual Easter sales disability Film Challenge is taking place from Tuesday, April 2 to Sunday, April 7. If you go to disabilityfilmchallenge.com, you'll be able to register before the end of the day, April 1, because we will send out the assignment on Tuesday, April 2. If you're not able to sign up this year, please follow us online on our social media channelsability film challenge. Follow mechnovicki all of our films are going to go live the following weekend on Saturday, April 13. So we could really use some support in having the world see these great films. You know, everybody owns their own films. Some of them will continue to be developed into other projects, but at the end of the day, I'm just so proud of the diversity of all the disabilities that take place within our films. Every single disability we have little people, deaf people, blind, cerebral palsy, wheelchair users, autistic actors, actors with down syndrome. Every disability is really encompassed and it's open. And the films don't have to be about disability. It's just about including people with disabilities. [00:30:24] Speaker A: Gotcha. So what was your disability challenge last year? [00:30:31] Speaker B: Last year it was romance was the theme. And if you go to disabilityfilmchallenge.com and hit the challenge tab, go to past challenges, you could see the romance was the genre last year. [00:30:46] Speaker A: Can you see any of those films? [00:30:49] Speaker B: Absolutely. It brings you to our YouTube page, too, and all the films are there. [00:30:54] Speaker A: And how many applications did you have last year? [00:30:59] Speaker B: We had 115 films created, and so we ended up with four winning films. We have different categories. [00:31:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:09] Speaker B: Best film, best director, best writer, best editor, actor, and then awareness campaign. [00:31:16] Speaker A: Oh, cool. Cool. And so when that happens, like, presumably there's x many winners, and do they, are you able to help them kind of get attract any type of work or other directors? [00:31:38] Speaker B: It's all self driven. So everybody puts their own teams together. Everybody makes their own films. We do have amazing prizes. The winners will receive grants this year, $15,000 grants provided by the Adobe foundation to turn projects into feature films and television shows and to further improve the quality of the production, as well as $2,000 grants, Sony cameras, Dell computers, mentor meetings. So, but beyond that, really, the casting Society of America reaches out to talent, and we just had so many people getting hired from this. [00:32:21] Speaker A: What made you want to do this? [00:32:26] Speaker B: You know, I think it was just a combination of, I've had a lot of friends with disabilities that always asked me how I was able to get my own productions together, because they would be like, you know, it's how are you doing this? And so I would tell people, well, I tell. I ask everyone that my, that I meet, you know, if they are a camera person or an editor. I send emails out. I get very specific. I do pre production, I set dates. I try to get people that work for free to be hired on other jobs. So I put together a whole list of things I did, and then more and more people were asking that. And I decided to do this as a one off competition initially to create more opportunities for other people. [00:33:09] Speaker A: And presumably you found that it's created a lot of opportunities. [00:33:16] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:33:17] Speaker A: And hopefully opportunities for you as well. Is there anything. [00:33:25] Speaker B: Yeah, it has. Well, it's. That's the one thing about this. And to be honest, this takes up so much of my life. So there are times that I've had to turn down jobs because I'm so invested in this community and, you know, I have so many commitments. So that is a balance. And I've also brought in so many people that I've worked with over the years, the Farley brothers, all these other people to help. But. But, you know, I think I have been hired where, you know, luckily, being a comedian every, you know, event, I try to be funny, and so people will go, hey, you'd be good in this or that, you know, so, so it has led to some jobs, but at the end of the day, I think a lot of the industry is really, you have to get in the door, right? You have to do your own work. So I don't think I would be hired for anything. If I hadn't been in other tv shows or other movies, you know, beforehand, maybe I would get the opportunity to audition. But, you know, it's really about opening doors, and many doors for the disability community had been shut prior to recently. And now what I love and what I'm passionate about is we, as people with disabilities, need to open those doors and need to push the whole community through by making films and showcasing ourselves in the best way. And I hope that's done through the Easter Seals disability film challenge. But the goal is just for more and more great content. [00:35:04] Speaker A: Is there anything you'd like to leave us with? [00:35:08] Speaker B: Well, first of all, I want to thank you for having me on, for having this great show and for your support of me, of the Easter sales disability film challenge and the disability community. For any of your listeners that are interested, I highly encourage you to go to disabilityfilmchallenge.com. Hit that challenge tab. In our past challenges, you could see all of our films, our finalists, we really hope you're able to, you know, get involved and stay connected and. And watch these films. [00:35:46] Speaker A: Charlene, do you have any questions for Nick? No. It was very comprehensive, and it sounds so much fun. It makes me want to think about, hey, can I do it? [00:36:00] Speaker B: There's still time. [00:36:03] Speaker A: That's right. [00:36:04] Speaker B: You guys should make a film together. [00:36:06] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. That would be interesting. Yes. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate you coming on and talking about this. And I really think it is an important topic because it's high time that we are represented correctly in our own bodies, in our own disabilities. You know, if you think back to the little house on the Prairie show, where there was never, you know, you weren't thinking about, was that person really representing, you know, that, did that person really have a disability? They were just playing one. But thank you very much for being on. I appreciate it, and good luck in the coming years with the show. And who knows? Maybe I'll apply. [00:36:56] Speaker B: I hope so. That would be amazing. And thank you so much for having me on. [00:37:00] Speaker A: Thank you very much. And you are tuned to Kfai 90.3, fmmminneapolis and kfai.org dot. And we are podcasted. Erin, our trusty podcast person is back, and he is doing our podcast so you can hear more of what was happening in the last couple months, if you had missed it. We also have this on the archives for two weeks, and then it falls off. But never fear, it will be in podcasting. So coming up, Charlene. April 4 is pledge night. Starting our pledge night, I want to encourage supporters and listeners to please support, because this is how we bring you these great topics like this. And on April 4, we'll be bringing you Roger Curry. Roger will be speaking about. He's a member of Outofsight.net, and he'll be talking about that, the free gaming, and I guess they do all sorts of things. They have a learning community and things like that. So that should be very interesting. And I'm excited to hear about it, as I'm sure Charlene, you will be, too. And then after that, on the next 1. April 11, we'll be speaking with Wendy Fagan. Wendy is executive director of Envision blind Sports. She'll be talking about her new venture, and she will be speaking with us about that. On the 18th, we have doctor Emil. This is Charlene's favorite topic. So he'll be talking about colorectal cancer. Oh, what a pain. So there's been a lot of things that have changed with that currently. So we'll be talking about that. We have also coming up unfair housing practices. So those are just some of the many things that are coming up on disability and progress. So if you feel that this is a value to you, please support us by donating what you can. And then next two weeks will be our pledge dive. So thank you so much for listening. And you've been listening to disability and progress. This is KFAI 90.3 FM and kfai.org within. Wow, I just lost my words. Those aliens came in again tonight. We were speaking with Nick Novicki, who is the director and founder of disability film Challenge with Easter Seals, and he was also the founder of the world's first disability loop group. We hope you've enjoyed this episode, and please feel free to pledge next [email protected]. Dot the views expressed by this show are not necessarily those of KFAI or its board of directors. Thanks for joining us tonight. Fresh food is up next. Good night.