Speaker 0 00:00:54 And good evening. This is disability on progress, where we bring you insights into ideas about end discussions on disability topics. My name is Sam. I'm the host of this show. Thanks so much for tuning in Charlene doll is my research woman. Good evening, Charlene. I'm here. Shy, just making sure if you want to be a part of our email list and find out what's coming on, you can email
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[email protected]. Well, Charlene, this month is national protect your hearing month as I understand it, and we have Kate McGinley and Dr. Heather, and you'll have to help me with the last name.
Speaker 0 00:02:00 I think it's may like may look way lookout yuck, malleable mal yuck. Silent. Is there an a at the end? Nope. M a L Y U K. Okay. Wow. Okay. Did I butcher that? I apologize. Okay. Everybody does. No problem. Excellent. It's going to be used to that, I guess. Um, tonight we're, um, Kate is the co-founder and chief growth officer of tuned and Dr. Heather Maluk is tunes head of audiology. And so I want to just thank you both for, for coming on. I appreciate you coming on, on, on protect your hearing month. I do think this is a really important topic. I think for all those who are now tuned into this program via radio or their smartphone with our smart app or on your Alexa device or computer, you do know if you're listening, how important is. So I want to start out by I'm thinking you both, but I want to start with Dr. <inaudible>. Can you give us some history about your background and how you got involved with this field?
Speaker 2 00:03:15 Sure. I'd love to, um, thanks so much for having us on your show. This is great. I am an audiologist as mentioned, I'm located in Northeast, Ohio, near Akron, Ohio, and that's where I'm from as well. Uh, my background is as a professional musician, I grew up as a musician. I have a degree in music history. I worked for many years as a professional musician, and as I was starting to a graduate degree, a master's degree in ethno musicology, I had a reaction, a gut feeling that it wasn't for me and that I wasn't really involved in my life's calling from there. I re I sort of randomly found audiology to be honest. Um, I saw an online advertisement for a local doctoral program and I went for it. Um, and that was in 2008 to 2009. That school year, uh, since then I have fallen deeper in love with audiology every year that I practice and I've become specialized in several areas. Uh, my main specialty is music audiology, but I also specialize in tinnitus management and alternative amplification and care as well as industrial hearing conservation. Um, just to name a few. So that's a short background on me. Can
Speaker 0 00:04:44 You give us a definition of music audiology for all those who was like, who what's that?
Speaker 2 00:04:49 Sure, no problem. Music audiology is a really rare and highly specialized sector of the audiology world. And it focuses greatly on hearing conservation. So hearing protection as it relates to music industry professionals, but it also focuses on the particular needs of music industry personnel, or who I call talented listeners when it comes to amplification of hearing loss and management of hearing disorders. It's a rare enough specialty that right now in the United States, there are only about five to 10 of us. Wow. Practice this specialty. And there's one in Canada as
Speaker 0 00:05:32 Well. So you have a niche. It is
Speaker 2 00:05:35 A little bit of a niche. Yes.
Speaker 0 00:05:37 So let's talk about this a little bit longer. This is protect your hearing month, and I want to talk about protecting your hearing. So is this really a problem?
Speaker 2 00:05:49 Well, yes and no, it is national protect your hearing month. And if you didn't know, it's actually audiology awareness month as well not know that. Yes. So we have two special things going on this month, but it is national protect your hearing month, which, which I love. And it's all about raising awareness of sound induced, hearing loss and it's prevention. And we know this is prevalent in the United States. There was a data analysis completed a few years ago from N Haynes, which is the national health and nutrition examination survey. And it showed that about 25% of adults in the U S exhibit signs of noise-induced or sound induced hearing loss. And we also know that sound exposure can lead to disorders of hearing such as tinnitus or ringing in the ears. So really this month is about preventing those hearing disorders too. Now, in terms of hearing protection, being a problem, it's not necessarily a problem.
Speaker 2 00:06:54 What I find is that most individuals are very undereducated about the topic. It's not really something that, that comes to mind readily when we are exposed to hazardous sound, it's not like our ears bleed, or we have some kind of sign that injury is happening. And many people don't realize that they have an injury from sound exposure until it becomes quite severe because this type of hearing loss can happen very gradually over time. Um, additionally, I find that individuals who use hearing protection, they often forget a very important step in the process, which is an annual hearing evaluation and consultation with an audiologist to ensure that they are actually properly protecting themselves. So when we say, uh, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, it's very, very true. Um, in the realm of protecting your hearing, can you tell me
Speaker 0 00:07:54 What are some of the most common things that are hard on here?
Speaker 2 00:07:59 Sure. Yes. And actually this ties right into national protect your hearing month. It certainly is about noise, but there are other factors as well. Um, I, I think many people think that aging in and of itself getting old causes hearing loss, but that's not necessarily the case. There are essentially five categories of things that can be hard on hearing. And those are things like hazardous sound exposure, certainly genetic predisposition to hearing loss, poor blood flow. So things that would affect your vascular health, your blood flow, certain disease processes and viruses, and then also lifesaving medications, heavy medications like chemotherapy. So
Speaker 0 00:08:48 Had we often start on hearing
Speaker 2 00:08:50 Really it is, yes, it can be especially very high pitches of hearing. And, and certainly we often see older individuals with hearing loss because they've had more time for something to happen to their ears, but aging alone certainly does not cause hearing loss
Speaker 0 00:09:08 Fascinating that especially, so what is considered a hearing problem or, you know, hearing loss
Speaker 2 00:09:16 And put it very plainly, um, I would say it's any measurable or perceived impairment, um, as it relates to listening to sound. So not just hearing a sound, but sometimes it has to do with understanding the sound. There are individuals who don't necessarily have measurable hearing loss on a hearing test, but they might be dealing with something like auditory processing disorder or some other disorder of hearing. So yeah, I would say any measurable or perceived impairment as it relates to listening to sound.
Speaker 0 00:09:52 Huh. So, um, when my younger and when my first son was, was born, when he was a baby and toddler, he had a substantial amount of, of ear infections. And I was so concerned about and worried that he would have hearing issues from that. Um, it just seemed like he had, I mean, one every month almost. And there were some people that would say, yes, get tubes, no, don't get tubes. Do you have a feeling on this? Or what is your, your thoughts?
Speaker 2 00:10:33 Well, ear infections are quite cut, not necessary. I'm not, I was going to say they're common in children, but I should say they are more common in children than they are in adults. And that's for anatomical reasons. And it can, can be from environmental reasons and other things in terms of tubes, um, and whether or not those should be used. It depends on the child and what the ear nose and throat physician thinks and recommends because every child's very different. So it's hard to make a general statement about that. But I would say if a, if a mom is listening to this and thinking about it, it's okay to ask really detailed questions to your ear, nose and throat physician, and trust their guidance in that process.
Speaker 0 00:11:18 And so let them most talk about if somebody has had a substantial amount of ear infections and even maybe as an adult and they have a hearing deficit and their doctor says, I wouldn't recommend hearing aids for you because you've had so many ear infection and you're prone to them. What will we get into later about two? Is there something that is an option for them?
Speaker 2 00:11:44 Yes. I think there's a couple of things. There are different types of ear infections. So there are middle ear infections that happen behind the eardrum. And they're in, there are outer ear infections that happen in the ear canal. When you look at different types of amplification, if someone needs amplification or hearing aids or another device, I don't think there would be a situation where it would not be recommended. Maybe a certain style would not be recommended. And we can get into that later in terms of different styles of ear pieces and things like that. It's kind of funny that you bring this up because I had an appointment this morning with an adult who has recurrent ear infections, and we did talk about different styles of hearing aids and other devices that would work for her, um, because her hearing tends to fluctuate. So when she's in the middle of an ear infection, it will be worse. And, um, she, she has, uh, actually a couple of audiologists she works with because she's in different parts of the country. Um, so it's interesting you bring that up. Those, those individuals do have different concerns, uh, in terms of amplification.
Speaker 0 00:12:53 All right. Can you talk about tinnitus?
Speaker 2 00:12:57 Yes. Tinnitus. Yes. And I, let me start by saying, for anyone listening, thinking, is that how it's pronounced? Some people say tinnitus and some people say tinnitus and both are acceptable. You can use either or either, you know, whatever you like most audiologists will say tinnitus. Um, and especially in the U S we tend to say tinnitus. So just as a starting point, um, you're not wrong. If you say tinnitus, it's just not what the health professionals say. Uh, but the really the most basic definition of it, if someone's not aware, it's a perceived sound in the ears or in the head that doesn't have an external source. And when we look at the data in the U S tinnitus affects roughly 50 million adults in our country and of those individuals, about 20 million. So a little less than half find it bothersome. And then about 2 million, find it deep militating. And so it can be in many forms, it can be ringing in the ears. It can be chirping, it can be a buzzing sound. And sometimes an individual can say, it's in, oh, it's in my left ear. Oh, it's in my right ear. Some say, oh, it sounds like it's in my head. I'm not sure where it's located, but that's what tinnitus is.
Speaker 0 00:14:20 I have heard a lot of people talk about it like a ringing, like you said, or a high pitched, um, and it's caused by.
Speaker 2 00:14:29 It can be caused by a myriad of things, including sound exposure. Um, we see it quite often. It's one of the, uh, first and foremost service connected conditions for our military, actually tinnitus and hearing loss. Um, often from sound exposure, it can also be caused by certain medications, um, disease, processes, viruses, um, sometimes it's idiopathic meaning there isn't a cause, uh, that can be pinpointed. Sometimes it's what we call so mad as sensory or the lay term would be mechanical, meaning it's coming from the neck or the jaw. And that's where someone like a physical therapist, you know, would get involved for adjustments and things like that and, and therapy. So there isn't one cause. And what makes that complicated is there isn't one therapy more cure that works for everyone. It's a very diverse condition.
Speaker 0 00:15:29 So my understanding is it's, it's not necessarily a constant thing that it can come and go yes,
Speaker 2 00:15:36 For some people it can come and go. And that's what we would call intermittent tinnitus. For many people, it is constant, or what we would say is persistent tinnitus, meaning they have it 24 7. Uh,
Speaker 0 00:15:50 I can't imagine, I don't want to imagine. Uh, so w what, so there's, you said a substantial or different treatments, some maybe physical therapy, is there any type of, um, you know, vitamin or any type of thing that people generally take that could help?
Speaker 2 00:16:12 Not at the moment. Um, there are many things being researched right now, different vitamin formulas and pharmaceuticals. The primary therapies right now for tinnitus involve retraining the tinnitus through sound therapy, um, often in conjunction with a therapist that would practice something like cognitive behavioral therapy. So it's really about retraining certain parts of the brain. Um, many people will get an over-the-counter product from CVS or Walgreens or wherever that says it can take tinnitus away. It's not many of those are not proven effective. However, the reason why I wanted to bring it up is I am a bit of a believer in the placebo effect. Yes. So typically
Speaker 0 00:17:02 If they think it's doing good, it might be out in good.
Speaker 2 00:17:05 So I would say to somebody, you know, if you're doing something and it's working for you, then it's working for you. As long as you're not hurting another part of your body by doing it, then, you know, talk about it with your audiologist and maybe that's all you need. Um, what I have found with my tinnitus patients is there, there are truly no two alike. And the therapy process with each patient is, is very different,
Speaker 0 00:17:31 Well playing like music or stories or something to try to cover up the sound.
Speaker 2 00:17:38 Absolutely. Absolutely. We, uh, that would be called an interesting sound. When we talk about using sound for tinnitus, that would be an interesting sound meaning you're probably going to, to it and pay attention to it. So that would be one type of sound you could use. Another type of sound would be an uninteresting sound. So maybe a white noise generator or having the sound of, I had a patient recently use actually a YouTube video that was ambient sound from a coffee shop. And he said it really helped him when he was reading to take his mind off the tinnitus and focus on what he was reading. So you're absolutely right. Those interesting sounds can be used. And then uninteresting sounds can be used as well.
Speaker 0 00:18:22 You told us a little bit ago that old age is not necessarily just a given that one will lose their hearing. So do you have statistics on like general ages on how, you know, how bad a hearing loss is, you know, the general population that has hearing losses over a certain ages? Hmm,
Speaker 2 00:18:43 That's a good question. And I mean, certainly it's kind of tough to make generalizations about age groups, especially because that kind of data collection at that kind of scale can be a little difficult, but there, there are statistics about this. For example, the CDC estimates that about 15% of school age children have some degree of hearing loss. Um, there was, uh, a nice article published earlier this year in the Lancette that showed that hearing loss was the third largest cause of disability, um, in global disease burden. And there was a nice graphic in that article that looked at hearing loss by decade of life. And, and essentially what it showed is a very small percentage of the, of the global population, having hearing loss at birth, um, to an almost 50% prevalence for individuals above the age of 95. And the, it was a bar graph and all the way up from birth to 95, it was sort of a steady increase in prevalence. Oh,
Speaker 0 00:19:50 I believe I saw a statistic or a percentage about, um, 85 decibel, um, threshold of sound, um, above that is considered too loud. 85 is considered too loud, help us with this number and compare it to how we would know what that means.
Speaker 2 00:20:10 Sure. So 85 DB, um, or what we, what an audiologist would say is DB a, but I'm just going to throw that out there, but we can say DB for right now, but when we talk about the 85 DB threshold, we are referencing regulation in the U S. And so I'll just give you an example in, in certain places in Europe and in certain provinces in Canada, their scale started 80 DB, but for us here, ours is 85. And you know, this is often used as an action level or a at which criteria starts for preventing noise induced hearing loss. And the specific level is, is referenced by both the occupational safety and health administration. So that's OSHA and the national Institute of occupational safety and health that's NIOSH, um, as used in reference to employees in the industrial workforce. So in other words, people who are exposed to hazardous noise at their workplaces like factory workers, we though can use these safety skills, um, to influence our day to day decisions about hearing safety.
Speaker 2 00:21:23 Even though those skills were designed for individuals in those louder work settings, meaning they're based on, you know, a 40 hour work week over a full career. So sounds above 85 can certainly injure hearing, but it's not dependent only on the DB level, but also the length of exposure time. So it's sort of like being exposed to sunshine, where if you're in sun for a long amount of time, you might need a higher SPF than if you were there for a short amount of time. It's sort of similar with hearing a noise. So just to use the NIOSH scale as an example, that scale protects about 92% of the population. And it says that 85 DB is safe for about eight hours without hearing protection in place. Meaning you can be an 85 DB. And if you're there for more than eight hours, you risk getting a noise induced hearing loss.
Speaker 2 00:22:22 How would you know what 85 DB would be though? So an 85 DB signal, uh, might be something like a, a small lawn mower, a riding lawn mower. You know, if you, if you go for a larger, more powerful tractor, you might be up to a 95 DB signal. I just to give us a rough estimate. Now, people listening to this wondering about their own levels, NIOSH, who I'm talking about right now. And I O S H they have a wonderful app that works on apple products. It's called the NIOSH sound level meter app. So anyone with an iPad or an iPhone can download this app and it's really fairly accurate, and they can actually measure what they're exposed to and see if they're at risk. Ah, yeah. Tell us where to find that again. So if you have an apple product, an iPhone or an iPad, you can go into your app store and search the NIOSH sound level meter, and NIOSH is N I O S H.
Speaker 2 00:23:28 So as, as an example, okay. 8 85 is the starting point. You know, you might be safe for eight hours there. Well, every three DB that you add to that number, your safety time is cut in half. So I mentioned, so, you know, 88 DB would be safe for four hours. 91 would be safe for two, et cetera. So imagine if you're on a really, you know, large, powerful tractor mowing your lawn, and you might be at 95. Well, according to NIOSH, you're really only saved for about an a half hour give or take. So if you have a lot of mowing to do, and you know, you're going to be on there for a couple hours, it's time to use your hearing protection. So that's how you use these safety scales. You don't necessarily need to say, well, you know, it's 87 DB, so I need to put in your plugs and put muffs over them. It's really about your length of exposure and the DB level.
Speaker 0 00:24:28 But two could, if you wanted to protect yourself,
Speaker 2 00:24:31 You could, if you want to do,
Speaker 0 00:24:33 I always wonder about those fireworks that people love to see. And, um, they are awfully loud and many people bring their little tiny babies to those. And I'm like,
Speaker 2 00:24:48 Yes, I always love seeing the babies and ear Muff sent, you know, in 2021, we, one thing we talk about with sound exposure that I think a lot of people forget about, but there's increased awareness is individuals wearing things like air pods and headphones all day, you know, doing remote jobs, maybe commuting to an in-person job. So when we think about sound exposure, now it's not just about out outside sources that maybe are far away from you. It's things that we're putting on our heads and in our ears as well.
Speaker 0 00:25:23 All right. So I want to, um, I'm going to ask the question. So if, if an a, just so I can clarify if an adult, because I had this question put to me has had many ear infections and his, his actual doctor said you shouldn't get hearing aids, um, that they, they wouldn't be good. What can he do exactly what, because he needs something, what should he be doing? And, and should it be getting a second opinion? Should he be, you know, and I don't know what kind of ear infections he had, but I'm guessing that middle ear, if the doctor has telling them not to not to get any
Speaker 2 00:26:06 Sure. One of course, I, I don't know this person. I haven't seen his test results and I don't want to say the wrong thing, but my gut reaction would be to get a second opinion. Um, even if he wants to email me and get a second opinion, that seems a little odd to me, um, that if someone is perceiving a hearing loss and needs amplification, that they would be told not to do that. And so that I would seek out a second opinion.
Speaker 0 00:26:33 All right. Excellent. And how can people contact you?
Speaker 2 00:26:38 My email address is Heather, my first
[email protected].
Speaker 0 00:26:45 Heather H E a T H E R at tuned care to U N E D. Yes. Dot com.
Speaker 2 00:26:56 Yes. Tuned care.com
Speaker 0 00:26:58 Tuned care.com. All right. Excellent. Thank you. I appreciate that. Um, are you finding that was the whole, you know, we, we, for like two years now, there's been a substantial amount of people that had a big change. Children were out of school because of the pandemic. They had headphones. One of the things that I was instructed for my child is they must have headphones to connect to their iPad so they could be in class. Um, even though I found that you can just keep your headphones off you and be unplugged and player iPad out loud, and maybe that's a little nicer on your ears, but as a worker too, that, you know, I'm, I'm under headphones teaching my clients, you know, through zoom and whatnot. Has there been a, a much larger hearing loss and, or hearing issues now? How are you finding?
Speaker 2 00:27:59 Well, I'm not sure if we know yet in relation to COVID and being home and using headphones and that kind of thing. I don't know that that data has specifically been collected yet. I do know there have been studies done on, um, earbud use, for example, um, showing that that individuals 87% of individuals, if they are listening and there's some background noise around them, they're listening at unsafe levels and we know the same is true for, for children. Um, I think we are noticing clinically. So what I'm seeing clinically and what I'm hearing from patients is that there's a heightened concern for hearing God, meaning people are contact me and saying, my employer has told me I need earphones or headphones in, and I'm working from home and I'm on meetings eight or 10 hours a day. And I feel fatigued. My hearing feels fatigued at the end of the day.
Speaker 2 00:29:00 Well, that can be a sign of injury happening. So again, this is where the annual hearing checkup comes into play and an education from an audiologist about what device might be appropriate again, for the length of time they're listening and what their needs are. There are also individuals who feel fatigued at the end of the day because they actually might need some kind of amplification over their computer or through their headphones, um, that would help them do their job a little better, help them focus a little better. So I'm seeing that too, in terms of listening fatigue. So that's a good question. I do assume that that kind of data will be collected, um, as we keep going through the pandemic. All right. I want to
Speaker 0 00:29:41 Give you a scenario because, um, I think a lot of people ask themselves, how do I know when I have a hearing loss short of, you know, if you haven't had a hearing check? Um, so I, this happens in my family, somebody in one room, somebody is in another, you just say something thinking, of course you should be able to hear me from the other room. No you can't and or somebody walking away mumbling and not looking at you, you can't hear them very well. You're saying what? So how do you know if somebody is asking too much or if somebody, you know, needs to get a hearing check?
Speaker 2 00:30:23 Well, I think I have some specific thoughts, but let me start by saying in the world that we are in and the families we are in, in the friend groups, we are in, it never hurts to have what are called good communication strategies. It's a way to care for other people, you know, to face someone when you're talking to them, to make sure they know the context of what you're saying to speak up and speak clearly and give space to your words and not rush and not mumble. So that's sort of just a first general statement for the whole world. You know, just good communication strategies. Now, if we're talking about when, when do people really realize that they have hearing loss, some individuals are very self-aware and they know when they have hearing loss by realizing that they're truly not hearing sound as clearly as they once did.
Speaker 2 00:31:15 And I'm not talking about someone being in the other room, you know, washing dishes. And maybe the person with hearing loss is in the basement or something. Even individuals with normal hearing would have a tough time with that. So, so there are people who realize that even in close, what would be deemed clear conversation that they're having some issues, or perhaps they're missing out on pieces of information in conversation they're realizing they're missing chunks of information. Perhaps they are finding themselves not getting together with family and friends because listening is becoming too fatiguing. Perhaps they're starting to consider, oh my gosh, am I being forgetful? But maybe they just never heard things clearly in the first place. So that's one example, others find out that they have hearing loss by loved ones, letting them know that they have noticed they are missing things. Um, and still others notice it with music or other jobs or hobbies that require listenings.
Speaker 2 00:32:12 Perfect example is I had someone in my clinic the other day who is an ecologist. And he said to me, I need help because I am paid to listen for certain bird calls, you know, and he couldn't hear them anymore. So everyone's hearing profile is, is unique. And there are no two people on earth who quote here the same, even if their hearing loss is identical on a hearing test. And you could have two people with the hearing loss. And one is very aware of it. And the other one needed his friend to tell him, you know, that it was time to take a,
Speaker 0 00:32:45 The step forward. Right? I like to talk about the new system that you guys are, um, about the tune to system, but I'm going to take a short break first and we'll come back and we'll talk about that.
Speaker 3 00:32:58 Programming on KFH is supported by the community action partnership of Ramsey and Washington counties, energy assistance program. The energy assistance program helps low-income households pay a portion of their heating bills, community action of Ramsey, Washington assists, Ramsey, and Washington county residents with home energy payments, energy crises at emergency furnace repair. They also offer referrals to the home weatherization program. More information about how to
[email protected]
Speaker 0 00:33:44 And you're tuned to cafe 90.3, FM, Minneapolis and cafe I D O R G. My name is Sam. I'm the host of the show. We are talking to both Dr. <inaudible> I'm I'm, I'm afraid every time I pronounced his name now. And, um, we're also going to bring in, um, Kate McKinley, um, Tate, I'm going to bring you into, uh, can you, hi, um, finally, huh? Um, Kate co-founder and chief growth officer of tuned. So can you start out by telling me what tuned is?
Speaker 4 00:34:24 Sure. Um, so, so tuned is a platform, um, for both patients and audiologists and today tune gives access to patients. It gives patients access to education, um, and it gives them transparency throughout their hearing health journey. So patients can schedule a tele health visit with their audiologist. They can access a marketplace of audiologists, vetted OTC products, but there's no pressure towards a device or this one type of solution that we often see in the world today. There's no insurance hassles either. We've eliminated all of it. So it's really a place where if you want the most comprehensive selection for your hearing health, you can go to tuned and receive expert care to guide you to the solutions that will work for you.
Speaker 0 00:35:21 So you're kind of saying that tuned gives you all the options that are on the board.
Speaker 4 00:35:27 That's right along with the expertise of the audiologists, such as Dr. Malik, to guide you in those decisions and support your journey. So how,
Speaker 0 00:35:37 How did you come up with this system?
Speaker 4 00:35:41 So that's a great question. So our founder, Danny personally suffers from hearing loss. He served, uh, in the military on a tank and that exposure as Dr. <inaudible> mentioned, cause hearing loss, Danny went to several audiologists and every time he was told that there was nothing that they could really do for him. So he actually launched the headphone company first to solve his hearing loss. But what he realized was no two people have the exact same hearing profile. And so if you wanted to solve hearing problems at scale, you need to move away from the device only model he connected with Heather. Um, and from the start, he's really championed an unbiased approach rooted in clinical expertise. That was really the seed for tune Danny's own personal hearing loss experience.
Speaker 0 00:36:45 And you helped with this.
Speaker 4 00:36:49 I did, I did. So. So I joined as a co-founder a little bit later. Um, I spent my career in healthcare. I actually started as a patient care technician on a hem-onc stem cell transplant unit. I was working full time and pursuing my education. And I remember I looked at a patient's EMR on a night shift one night, you know, all the information about the patient in the computer. And I just decided I wanted to make it, my life's work to empower the frontline, the patients and the providers with technology. I had, um, a little bit of a background in technology. So since then I've worked with organizations, um, just trying to help reinvent healthcare with that goal in mind. So when Danny approached me and shared what the Toon team was doing, I just went all in. I have family members who are bilateral hearing aid wearers. I have one with single-sided deafness. So this was, to me, the tuned mission is close. It's very close to my heart.
Speaker 0 00:38:05 Yes. Well, Kate, I, um, I guess, you know, I think I saw in the material that talked about, about up to 75% of people that tend to leave their clinic dissatisfied with their choices of options, um, for hearing devices. So what does that mean? Exactly.
Speaker 4 00:38:29 So we said very similar to what Danny experience. So an individual notices that they're having hearing challenges, maybe not hearing loss, maybe it's tenderness, um, maybe it's, it's, they're noticing they're overstimulated by sounds, but they recognize that there is a problem because today's world, the, the model is so oriented towards hearing aids alone. As the solution. Many of these folks walk out empty handed, hearing aids are expensive. They're $6,000 often. They're very expensive. And so it's a real challenge when you don't quite have enough love problem to, to justify that price. Um, but you do want to solve the problem that you have. Another issue that we see is that many major insurance plans don't cover your hearing health. So even if you go into your PCP for your annual visit, you're probably not going to have your hearing checked. You might be asked about it, but will your hearing loss, or will your hearing actually be checked to, to ensure that you are healthy? It's unlikely because there is no coverage for it today. And so it's a practice model that really doesn't benefit the patient and it doesn't benefit the provider.
Speaker 0 00:39:58 So if one has their hearing check, what is a, what's a statistic they should hear or see, like what, what are the numbers they should come back with that tells them they don't have a hearing loss.
Speaker 2 00:40:14 I can, I can jump in.
Speaker 4 00:40:16 I will defer to Heather because I love clinical answers given my career started clinically. So Heather, go ahead.
Speaker 2 00:40:23 If someone is going into a clinic because they are perceiving an issue, then there is an issue there. And so that's where they need to have a good relationship with a clinician to get to the bottom of it. Um, if their clinician says to them, you don't have a problem. I do take issue with that. You know, whether it, whether it needs to be a referral to another provider or another type of testing, um, I, I don't think that scenario is, is a good one. And I hope it wouldn't be a common one. Now, if someone has, are they, if someone is perceiving no issues and they go to an audiologist and they find that their hearing is what we call within normal limits on a hearing test, then it's time to talk to the audiologist about protection. You know, when, when individuals go see dentists, certainly they're hoping that they don't have cavities. They might have something that needs to be worked on. But when we go to a dentist, we learn about protecting our teeth and keeping them healthy. It is the same with an audiologist as well. So I hope that answers the question a little bit, but if someone's perceiving an issue that there is an issue there,
Speaker 0 00:41:37 Kate, you talked about how, um, people so often just get, um, they get their problem addressed by devices, choices of devices. And that's not necessarily how tuned works, but I can't imagine how else you address something as far as like a certain device that might work better for someone as opposed to someone else. So how does, how does tune differ with that
Speaker 4 00:42:05 Great question, Sam? So the way we look at it, it all starts with that individual person's hearing profile. There's a lot of value in devices. In fact, the, the innovation, um, there are so many wonderful options on the market, but it's all anchored in that person's personal hearing profile, that person's goals, that person's lifestyle and that person's budget. So when a patient comes in and they can have that conversation with an audiologist, they can decide that maybe this device is what I want when I work from home. But when I'm spending time with my family, I don't want, or don't need a device, or there's some amazing devices, um, that, um, are app based, right? So they're, they're informational devices, if you will. And you can use that for, um, some rehabilitation activities. You can use some of these products to adjust to the different sounds that, um, are in your environment, different, um, loved ones, voices.
Speaker 4 00:43:17 And so there's just amazing technology out there. But depending on the goals of that individual, it's really about what treatment plan is right for them. And that may or may not include a device. And that is very different than the model today. Today, the model is it's almost device or bust. We think that we can create meaningful change for the patient and for the audiologist, by saying, hearing care is highly personal. We want to offer all of the options that are clinically validated, right? There's, there's a, there's a catch there. We're not just going to put anything on clinically validated and empower you with the choice to do what is right for you under the guidance of an audiologist. So that's the difference with tuned.
Speaker 0 00:44:13 So can hearing actually be improved without devices, if you are already experiencing a hearing loss,
Speaker 2 00:44:22 I'll take this one, Kate,
Speaker 2 00:44:26 It depends. I mean, it really depends on what's causing the hearing loss. There are some forms of hearing loss that can be medically treated. So on the tuned platform, when someone gets on the platform and does what we're calling a hearing workup, we, we utilize a really rigorous process, um, for finding what we call red flags. So these would be things that would warrant a referral to be seen in person by an audiologist or an ear nose and throat physician. So perhaps someone gets on the website and they say, well, I suddenly lost hearing in one ear yesterday or something like that. That's a red flag. They would need to go have medical treatment before moving forward. In terms of hearing loss that cannot be medically treated, then typically amplification is the best option. And at this point in time, there are research groups working on pharmacological agents or medical procedures to reverse hearing loss. There are also groups that are working on certain auditory training exercises to try and reverse the perception of hearing loss. And it could be that we will see some really good options in our lifetime, but they just simply don't quite exist yet. But I, I do have hope for the future.
Speaker 0 00:45:45 It's the little hairs inside your ear that as they get damaged or whatever, that, that causes the hearing loss, correct?
Speaker 2 00:45:54 Yes. For many types of hearing loss, um, it is the hair cells, the cilia in the inner ear that are experiencing that the damage or the injury and that type of hearing loss is called sensory neural. And it's, it's the most common form of hearing loss.
Speaker 0 00:46:10 So is there anything out there that's trying to like regrow the hairs or anything that they're trying to do to try to regenerate that
Speaker 2 00:46:19 Yes, there are groups actually working on that they are. Um, and they, they, I believe there has been some success in animal models. I might be a little bit behind on that research. Last time I looked into it, I know there was, um, there were stem cells being used and, and there were regeneration studies going on. And I, I, I wonder about that, especially in animal models, uh, an animal can't say, you know, okay, my cell is back at me and it sounds weird. Um, so I'm not sure when we'll see that translated into human subjects.
Speaker 0 00:46:54 So Kate, what exactly do you all do for the, for the company for tuned?
Speaker 4 00:47:03 Sure. So, um, part of my job is to really think about how we can impact the care delivery model. Um, and so that is making sure that the patient is having a great journey, making sure the audiologist is having a great journey, um, and a great experience, but, but the bigger piece that I think about is how can we change hearing health for up to 1 billion people? And that's really my mandate at the company. How does, how do we scale this model to a larger, um, you know, just a larger audience. And so the way I'm thinking about that is taking this beyond the walls of the clinic. Heather talked earlier about the fact that so many folks nowadays have this mandate to wear headphones or headsets at work and at school. And so I'm starting the conversation with businesses and starting to create visibility that, you know, quote unquote normal hearing, it's actually in the minority, everyone has a unique hearing profile. And so how can these organizations provide the tools for their employees or, you know, staff anybody in their community to get proactive about their hearing health and create an environment that works for their hearing. But that's really what my focus is.
Speaker 0 00:48:27 And have you had people give you feedback on this platform?
Speaker 4 00:48:34 We have. Um, so I'm, I have to say I've just been incredibly humbled by the response that, that we have had. Um, I'll share that we launched just a soft launch, um, to audiologists on October 4th. And it's now the 28th. We are now the third largest group of audiologists in the world, um, behind only the United kingdom's NHS and the VA here in the states. So it's just been unbelievable. Um, and on the patient side, I'm, I'm so proud of the work that the audiologists who have decided to join, um, are doing Heather. This is a bit of a funny story, but Heather actually had a patient, um, asked for her hand in marriage the other week, because the model is just so different than what patients are used to. It's, it's unbiased. The patient comes in, they can talk with an audiologist about their personal concerns and when they start to get recommendations, they can trust that there's no unbiased, uh, or I'm sorry, there's no bias pressure towards a sale.
Speaker 4 00:49:50 There's no commission structure, audiologists are just paid for their time and it's paid by the patient. So there's, there's no incentive there. And on top of that, the way we put brands on the website, we, um, we vet them clinically. So you can't pay to have your device or your brand on tune. Um, we aren't paid by, you know, selling, we're not paying audiologist by selling a ton of devices. That's not how to work. We, we have built this so that it is completely on bias. So the patient can have that make selections, that they feel are appropriate for them and leave knowing that truly, this is the best of, of what is out there.
Speaker 0 00:50:38 I usually take a little time to give my research person that assists me some time to ask questions if she has any in regards to this. And so Charlene, I just want to offer you the opportunity to ask any, if you have any,
Speaker 5 00:50:55 You know, both speakers have been so informative. I, I really don't, I'm, uh, I'm one of these people that every once in a while gets waxed in their ears and they can't hear anything. And, uh, it's kind of interesting when they, it feels like a champagne court coming out of my ear, you know, but, uh, um, it, this is, sounds like a model that really will be helpful for people.
Speaker 4 00:51:22 That's, that's, that's the goal. Um, you know, I just think, I really appreciate as someone who, like I said, I have members of my family with these hearing challenges and just seeing the work that the audiologists can do for patients. I mean, it's, it's inspiring. It's so wonderful to see someone have that kind of an impact on another human being.
Speaker 0 00:51:49 Um, should people get a yearly hearing check or should they wait till they notice something? Should, I mean, should everyone get a hearing check? How, what, how often should someone get their hearing checked?
Speaker 2 00:52:04 The recommendation is annually and many school aged children have annual screenings in school, but everyone should have a family audiologist the same as again, it's like going to see a dentist honestly, um, to make sure everything is healthy, working properly, that no hearing loss is being caused by noise exposure. Um, yeah, an annual visit with your, your friendly local audiologist. Um, especially now that platform a platform like tuned is making it so easy.
Speaker 0 00:52:38 Well, Kate and Dr. Mallya, I'd like to offer you this, uh, final, um, time for any comments that you have and also how people can get ahold of you and find out more about tuned.
Speaker 2 00:52:50 Sure. I, my final comment would be, I think looking at this whole conversation and thinking about my 10 plus years in audiology, that there really is no better time for ears, uh, than the period we're living in, both from the aspect of being an audiologist and the aspect of being a patient audiologists have so many tools, including this one at their disposal, where they can see a wide variety, they can really see and serve the true diversity of the population and meet the needs where they are. And from the patient's side, there, there have never been more options for hearing protection and the amplification. Um, I can be reached, like I said
[email protected]. Um, I welcome emails, comments, questions, um, and I know Kate does too.
Speaker 4 00:53:43 I do. And so for me, it's really about, I'd like to encourage everybody, who's listening to create visibility around their hearing. This is a really important topic and we're at a great time. So if you have hearing challenges, there are solutions out there. You should advocate for yourself and speak up because there are so many people out there who are advocating for you. It's, it's just that visibility that really makes a difference. Um, you can obviously reach us at, at tuned care.com, um, with patients. One of the things that we're seeing is a lot of, um, a lot of them are already asking their audiologist if they are using tuned. Um, so that's an option. And if not, I know Heather and I are very active on social media, Heather, on, on Facebook. And I am on LinkedIn all the time, so they can look us up, uh, on the tune pages on, on both Facebook and LinkedIn. And we'd love to hear from them.
Speaker 0 00:54:41 Well, thank you ladies for coming on. I really appreciate that. And, um, you know, this is definitely an important topic as I am very, I value my hearing very much, you know, as somebody who wears headphones a lot. So thank you again and good luck
Speaker 4 00:55:02 With the product.
Speaker 0 00:55:05 All right. And this is Cathy I, 90.3, FM Minneapolis and cafe.org. This has been disability and progress. The views expressed on this show are not necessarily those of cafe or its board of directors directors. Tonight. We've been talking about national protect your hearing month. This was about also the platform tuned. We were speaking with Kate McGinley, who is the, um, chief officer and co-founder of tuned and also Dr. Heather malleable and Dr. <inaudible> is the tunes head of audiologist. And of course you feel free to keep pledging. Thank you for listening. Good night.
