Disability and Progress-September 5, 2024- Planes, Trains, and Canes!

[00:00:00] Speaker A: KPI.org. [00:00:59] Speaker B: Greetings and thank you for joining me in disability and progress on September 5, 2024, where we bring you insights into ideas about and discussions on disability topics. My name is Sam. I'm the host of this show. I am back from my summer reprieve. Charlene Dahl is my research woman. Hello, Charlene. [00:01:20] Speaker C: Hello, everybody. And happy fall. [00:01:23] Speaker A: Shh. [00:01:24] Speaker B: Don't say that yet. [00:01:28] Speaker C: It's actually a gorgeous day here in Minnesota. [00:01:30] Speaker B: It is. But we just need to summer. Still summer. Still summer. Okay. [00:01:36] Speaker A: All right. [00:01:37] Speaker B: Just understand this. Erin is my podcaster. Thank you, Erin. And tonight we are speaking with Doctor Mona Minkara. Doctor Minkara is the assistant professor of the bioengineering at Northeastern University, and she was the lucky recipient, one of three, I believe, winners of the 2019 Hohmann Prize that was awarded given to individuals who want to push limits and change perceptions about blindness around the world. So that being said. Hello, doctor Mankara, are you there? [00:02:20] Speaker A: Hello. It's really nice to be here. Please call me Mona. [00:02:23] Speaker B: I know I was trying to be professional and all that, and, like, whatever we do, we totally do. Yes. I love this girl. So thank you so much for coming on. I'm very excited to talk to you about all your stuff. You have such a great story. But can you start out even. I probably don't even know the beginnings, really, but we're going to be talking about your story and also your project of planes, trains, and canes. So can you start out by telling us a little bit about you, what you know about you before all this? And it was what it was like growing up with a visual impairment and wanting to be a scientist? [00:03:09] Speaker A: Sure. Okay. Start at the beginning. [00:03:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:11] Speaker A: All. Every good story has a. Has a beginning. I suppose that's true. I hope my story is a good story. [00:03:18] Speaker B: It is a great story. [00:03:19] Speaker A: So thank you. Thank you. So I, you know, I was born in Tacoma Park, Maryland. That's very specific. But I was born in Maryland. My parents are lebanese immigrants. And ever since I was a child, I loved science. I always tell people that, good job, PBS. I think they were trying to get more american scientists. I'm definitely a product of watching shows that were on PBS, like magic school bus, but now the science guy. Yay. So I feel like, yeah, I just, like, loved. I just. I remember. I remember watching magic school bus and, like, Miss Frizzle and just being, like, shrinking everyone. I want to be there. I want to be on this magic school bus. Right? I want to enter the bloodstream. I want to enter the digestive system. [00:04:05] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:04:08] Speaker A: And it just really kind of planted the seed of curiosity towards how the world works. And I feel like that's how, like, my true nature of wanting to be a scientist started out then. [00:04:21] Speaker B: There are so many branches of science, though. How did you decide bioengineering? And could you give us a definition of, like, what bioengineering is for those who don't know? [00:04:30] Speaker A: Okay. So how I chose bioengineering, it kind of chose me, so I didn't really choose it. And then the definition, it's so vast. Basically, anything that requires engineering and biology can be considered bioengineering. My. I ended up getting a PhD in chemistry, so not even bioengineering. [00:04:50] Speaker B: Wow. So you kind of, like, all over the place. [00:04:54] Speaker A: Yeah, I love science. [00:04:57] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:05:00] Speaker A: I ended up being a chemist, and then I ended up working as a bioengineer. So there you go. But I don't know. I just. I've been curious ever since. I feel like those shows really kind of impacted me. It's really funny. It's a really amazing full circle because right now my research is being funded by the National Science foundation. But the first time I ever heard of them was at the end of magic school bus. Of course. [00:05:26] Speaker B: Of course. Funding made possible by the National Science foundation. Exactly. You know, so go ahead. [00:05:38] Speaker A: So, basically, like, I don't know, it. I don't know. It ignited this curiosity, and then when I was seven years old, you know, long story short, I started complaining, like things would just kind of be there and not be there. And then. And then I was diagnosed, you know, eventually they figured it out, and I was diagnosed with macular degeneration, coronary dystrophy. There was a doctor who did tell my parents it wasn't worth educating me. It felt like. [00:06:13] Speaker B: And you don't think of that happening in this country? [00:06:17] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I mean, you know. [00:06:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:21] Speaker A: I mean, so, like, it. My curiosity didn't change everybody's perception of what I should do with my curiosity change, but my curiosity and my. My genuine love for science just stayed. And I'm not gonna go into it because it's too long of a story, but I have eventually, like, just continued. I think what really kind of kept me going is just I'm curious even if it meant, like, I didn't. I failed or if I didn't, like, if I didn't get everything, at least I was, like, learning something. And eventually, I went to Wellesley for my undergrad, which is awesome. And I got a double, you know, double degree there in chemistry and middle eastern studies. And then I went on to get a PhD in chemistry, which is kind of amazing, but I would not have known what I was going to do. Like, I just. I kept on just not knowing what my next step was, but just knowing that I wanted to do something that I enjoyed. [00:07:22] Speaker B: Okay, I need to sound like an, you know, somebody who doesn't know what they're saying, but I. I don't think a. For some reason, you know, blindness and chemistry. It just seems amazing to me. So how many women do you know that are chemists and blind? Have you met anyone else? [00:07:45] Speaker A: Oh, like, with PhDs. In chemistry, specifically? [00:07:50] Speaker B: Well, just. How about just in chemistry? Because I don't think of chemistry as. [00:07:56] Speaker A: There's a little bit more now, like, as undergrads, which is awesome. Like, there is, like, a growing community, but we are very, very few there. We are very, very few. Like, I I can think of one. [00:08:09] Speaker B: Okay. Besides yourself, you mean? [00:08:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Yes, yes. [00:08:14] Speaker B: I'm just checking myself. [00:08:19] Speaker A: Another person. Yeah. Especially being a female, I think that's even more of a minority to be a female. And chemistry. [00:08:28] Speaker B: Right. And so how were your parents, you know, growing up? I'm sure they didn't really see your curiosity of science wane. You know, if anything, it probably got stronger knowing you. And so they must have had their own opinions, talk a little bit about that type of support, how they were. [00:08:50] Speaker A: I think they really just believed in letting me do what brought me joyous. You know what I mean? Letting me be myself. I have. I'm very grateful to my parents for that. You know, they supported me, and they were like, oh, you want to take advanced math? Okay, we support you. You know what I mean? It was. It was. It was like they followed my lead a little bit and on that, and that was kind of awesome. [00:09:12] Speaker B: Yeah, that doesn't always happen. [00:09:15] Speaker A: That was awesome. Wasn't kind of awesome. It was amazing, actually, to just be able to allow me to grow the way I want to, you know, to follow my interests. [00:09:25] Speaker B: What were some of the struggles that you found that came along, you know, choosing a profession like this. [00:09:34] Speaker A: Honestly, how inaccessible it is. Right. It wasn't. [00:09:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:09:39] Speaker A: World. The world really sometimes can be very stubborn against opening up new ideas, you know, like, new solutions for. For somebody to find. Right, right. Like, it's not that science in it is inherently inaccessible. It's that, as human beings, we've made it inaccessible. There's so many ways to interact with science in accessible ways, you know, and other senses to use. If you cannot see there are other essences you can use, whether you can. You can sonify data, you can touch things, like, there's. But we've really pigeonholed ourselves as humanity, as people. To think that science is observable and observable is only through the eyes. I would say that's the biggest challenge, is to overcome mentality, to convince people that that's not the case. Who can see an atom anyway? You know? [00:10:34] Speaker B: That's true. That's true. [00:10:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:38] Speaker B: Right. And so have you. I mean, I feel like maybe this is also kind of proving, like, your. Your life may be a constant proving to people that, hey, this is something I'm good at, and this is something I can do. Do you. I mean, do you feel like people come around after they know you a while? Do they? [00:11:07] Speaker A: I mean, it's gotten a lot easier as I grew older and became more established in my career. There's less questioning now, but I was younger. I think that people were skeptical, and some people came around and some people didn't. And it doesn't matter. You know what I mean? What mattered is I just needed to be able to pursue what I love. [00:11:28] Speaker B: Right. Right. Mona, I think it was 2019. You were one of, I think, three people who were awarded with and received the award of the Hohmann Prize. Can you tell us, like, what is that? Who sponsors that? What does it mean? And what did you have to do to get it? [00:11:52] Speaker A: Okay. Yes. I'm gonna also tell the story of how I applied. So it was 2019. I was applying that I could become, like, a professor. I was really stressed out, so I thought, hey, let me apply to this award. So I had learned about this award. It is called the Holman Prize. It's $25,000 from the lighthouse for the blind in San Francisco. And it's basically an award designed in honor of James Holman, who was an, I believe, 18th century. No, 18th century. I don't remember which century. Travel, blind traveler. And he had actually recorded his travels as a blind man going around the world. And it was fascinating because back then, he was part of the british army. He got blinded in military service, and they just wanted him to stay home, of course, and. No, no, no. I don't want to stay home. That's boring. So he just went off on his own, literally on his own, and just had adventures and actually tracked them by writing them. And he would write them by having, like, this piece of paper and wires on top of it. So he would, like, right between the wires. So this award is kind of in honor of him. To kind of promote blind individuals that want to push the bounds. And so I came up with this idea of, I really wanted to travel and experience the world. Right. I'm very curious. So I was like, how can I travel? And I can't afford it. Oh, let me apply to this homeland prize. Maybe they'll fund my travels. And then I realized, wait, it's not enough that I just travel. I have to do something unique. And I realized, oh, let me travel on my own. Document it with video. Right? So a modern form of documentation. And let me add a twist of using public transportation. So I applied with this idea, and I'm really happy to say that I won. And now I have a YouTube channel called planes, trains, and canes, where we have two seasons. Season one was funded by the Holman prize, and season two was funded by the. By Mapfee, which is a Massachusetts association for the blind and visually impaired. [00:14:00] Speaker B: Massachusetts. Oh, I didn't realize there was a split there that I thought they funded the whole thing. Wow. All right, we'll get to talking about all that, because. So when you did that, you. You won this, and. And how did you. Well, first of all, like, how did you plan where you were gonna go and how. Let's just talk about the first season. So how did you decide. How many places did you go and how many. How did you decide which ones where. Where it was gonna be? [00:14:36] Speaker A: Oh, partly. Okay, partly I was naive about, like, how much. How much effort would go into going and, like, editing and all that. But the way I chose it is I really wanted different experiences from a cultural perspective, infrastructure perspective. And so I kind of tried to hit as many varieties, as much variety. But at the same time, I also had heard about this hotel in Singapore that I wanted to experience. So I just Singapore minded on the list because of that. [00:15:06] Speaker B: So how many places in season one were there? [00:15:10] Speaker A: Yeah, there were five places. So I went to Johannesburg, South Africa. Then I went to London, England. Then I went to Istanbul, Turkey. Singapore. Singapore. Singapore, technically. And then I went to Tokyo, Japan. [00:15:25] Speaker B: So let's start out. I've been to Japan. It's pretty cool there. But let's start out. [00:15:31] Speaker C: But why? [00:15:32] Speaker B: I know you had a fascination, but why travel? Like, did you think that you could. I mean, what did you hope to do with that? [00:15:46] Speaker A: For me, I think travel is a form. It is another form of exploration. And also, I feel like it's very empowering to travel. Right. Especially if you're traveling on your own and trying to figure things out. [00:15:59] Speaker B: Right. [00:16:00] Speaker A: It's amazing. You're getting to experience different forms of humanity in a way to travel, right? [00:16:09] Speaker B: Mm hmm. [00:16:13] Speaker A: Like, that was just too tantalizing. I had to do it. Like, I still am so curious. I still am. If I get an opportunity to travel, I'll take it. [00:16:22] Speaker B: Can you talk a little bit through your first adventure? Like, what? Which one was. It was the. [00:16:32] Speaker A: Johannesburg. [00:16:32] Speaker B: Johannesburg. Yeah. That. That seemed like that would have been kind of scary to me. But you. You, I was pretty amazed you did buses and talk about how you got there, what. How you decided what to do and how you maneuvered all that. [00:16:53] Speaker A: So part of it is I wanted an authentic experience of problem solving on the side spot. So I didn't do much research. Kind of wanted the. The feeling of what happens if I'm just dropped in the middle of somewhere. So, you know, I was dropped in Johannesburg. It was my first. I really. I navigated. I remember this because I navigated to the Atlanta airport completely on my own. And Atlanta is massive. But, like, I did it. I did it in a short time, and I made it onto the plane. And I remember feeling so proud of. [00:17:26] Speaker B: Like, so right empowered. [00:17:28] Speaker A: Right? Like, yeah. Like, I could do this. I don't really. I don't need, like, you know, I don't need to see, like, to. To really kind of work through. That was kind of amazing. Then I got to Johannesburg, and then on my own, I navigated from the airport using a train. Cause I ask you just ask people or look it up on the phone using a train and then getting to my hotel. And even the hardest part I remember was even after getting off the train, even though the hotel was a few hundred meters away, like, my gps wasn't working properly. And, like, when I got to the hotel, it was just like. It was like, yeah, it was like the finish line, you know what I mean? After a marathon, I felt so excited and empowered and so proud of myself. Like, I did it on my own. [00:18:20] Speaker B: Yeah. Right. And that, I feel like that's a big deal. And people don't, you know, it's great to have. I mean, I'm the first to. I'll use tools or I'll use a guide dog, or I'll even take sighted guides sometimes if something seems like it's so loud and I can't really hear my way through things, but there is something to, you know, I remember finding my way through the Philadelphia airport, and it's huge there. And I felt like I was really proud of that. And I was young, and I was, you know, and I went out and I went to the science museum and found the bus and got there. And it is something that it's very hard to explain. That adrenaline or that feeling of, I did it. [00:19:14] Speaker A: Freedom. It's freedom. [00:19:16] Speaker B: Yes. Knowing that you don't have to do it that way, but you could if you needed to. And I guess I feel like there is some kind of adventure that it gives you. Like, there's something it gives you that somebody who has never done it can't really understand. [00:19:35] Speaker A: And honestly, honestly, Sam, like, even for sighted people, like, a lot of sighted people will be like, how did you do that? I would never travel on my own. Even traveling with someone, they stress out. You know what I mean? [00:19:45] Speaker B: Right. [00:19:45] Speaker A: And it's just like, it's. I don't know. It is an adventure, and it's like a form of freedom. It's like the feeling probably sailors get when they get on the ship across the sea, you know, across the ocean. It's a new frontier. That's what it is. [00:20:03] Speaker B: When you were doing this and setting up the places that you'd go to, what guidelines did you set for yourself? You must have kind of sat down and said, okay, this is what I will accept. Help wise, is what I won't. This is what I want to accomplish each time. What were the guidelines you set? Did they change, or were they kind of the same throughout each trip? [00:20:31] Speaker A: They were the same. So this is the guidelines. So I do have somebody who follows me to film me, but she does not get involved at all, and she follows my lead. So there's really actually some funny scenes where I'm going the wrong direction and she'll zoom in on the exit and then just continue following me. Right. So, like. So that. That's rule number one. It really is kind of on my own. I do have somebody filming me, but she does not get involved. There's, like, once in which she got involved because she thought a car was gonna hit me. That's it. [00:21:10] Speaker B: Yeah, I suppose it's a little bit scary on some of those different countries. On. [00:21:18] Speaker A: Like, it ended up not hitting me, and it was, you know. [00:21:22] Speaker B: Yes. [00:21:23] Speaker A: But so that's rule number one. Rule number two. I mean, I can use. I can use whatever tools I have. [00:21:31] Speaker B: In front of me. [00:21:32] Speaker A: Like, that's like, I like to challenge myself, but I really do believe in this for everybody. It's your choice. Right. Right. So tired. I don't have the mental capacity to problem solve, so, you know, I'll use a sighted guide. Fine. Sometimes I just, like, there's a really funny scene where I'm trying to use a compass and I just keep on going the wrong way. So it's, I think the guide. The guideline number one is truly kind of, like, emulating this idea is, if I get dropped here, can I figure my way out? You know, can I figure my way around? And asking people is fine, and using my phone is fine, you know, but the whole point is, I don't want to make it too easy and just get in an Uber or a taxi and just, like, really actually be out and about. So it's really important to me that I use public transportation. [00:22:25] Speaker B: Here and there. You'll. You have a more than. Sometimes more than one person with you that is doing a various thing or somebody. I'll talk about that in a minute. But did you. It sounds like you didn't. You really preferred not to lean on anybody that you were maybe that was following you or that you were having help for something. You just. If you were to ask directions or something, you asked somebody cold off the street, so to speak. [00:22:56] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. I mean, I didn't. I really didn't have anybody in season one other than Natalie Uzi, who's a camera woman. She followed me, but that was the rule, is, like, I didn't even know where she was. She kept an eye on me, but I did not know at all where she was. So it was like, truly, I was on my own. [00:23:13] Speaker B: And then season two, you, who sponsored you? I apologize. I know. [00:23:22] Speaker A: It's all good. The massachusetts association for the blind and visually impaired. [00:23:25] Speaker B: And how did. How did that come about? [00:23:30] Speaker A: Um, honestly, I pitched the idea to them, and they were really excited to help make season two happen, and it was amazing. [00:23:39] Speaker B: Mona, I have to admit, my. I think one of my favorite ones was the one you did in peru. [00:23:47] Speaker A: Oh, really? Which one? [00:23:49] Speaker B: The one. So many with the peron. [00:23:55] Speaker A: I went to the village. [00:23:57] Speaker B: Yeah. So. So let's set it up. So you were. You went in peru, you had two people, I think, with you, right. You had a driver at the time. [00:24:08] Speaker A: We had to have a driver, yes. [00:24:09] Speaker B: Because it was right up in the mountainous. [00:24:12] Speaker A: In the foothills of the andes. So we had a driver and a translator. [00:24:16] Speaker B: And a translator, obviously. Yes. So you went to this city or this village called peran, and this village, to me, I was like, whoa. It was just the amazing thing. So set the story for us. Tell us a little bit about this village, how you discovered it and what happened. [00:24:38] Speaker A: So, you know, before going to Peru, we had looked it up a little bit. And we had learned that there was a village in the foothills of the andes where 70% of its occupants are blind. And I was, like, really excited about this. I was like, oh, man, I have to go visit. These are my people, right. These are my fellow blind humans, right? And I needed to. I really wanted to experience this. I didn't know what I was getting into. It was. It was trek. It was really a trek. We had looked it up, so we did a little bit of planning here. It wasn't as spontaneous. Right, as my other trips, but it said that it was gonna be a three hour car ride from Lima. It ended up taking us, like, five and a half hours to get there. And it was just. It felt like I was going through different worlds. It was amazing. I mean, honestly, you should all watch it. So what happens is, I get there and I try to connect and communicate with the people who live there. It's not what I expected. [00:25:46] Speaker B: Right. [00:25:47] Speaker A: I thought that 70% of the population being blind meant that maybe there will be more accessible tools that the government would have, like, helped them, like, design, you know, none of that. It was. It was. [00:26:05] Speaker B: I remember you talking about the peach trees, right? The peach trees that were there and things. So did they. I'm just curious. Did they. Was it because they were blind that they were kind of relegated there, or did they choose to be there? Did. How did that work? [00:26:25] Speaker A: I think it's the remoteness of the area. It just happens to be something that the population has. [00:26:34] Speaker B: Huh. And I remember thinking that they were really not like. Not like you at all, really. A lot of them were very shy. They. [00:26:46] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. I mean, like, culturally, there wasn't an acceptance of it, you know? [00:26:51] Speaker B: Right. So talk a little bit about their feeling of their situation. Like, how did they feel about their situation? [00:26:59] Speaker A: I don't. I can't really speak for them, but I could speak for the fact that I just realized kind of how much privilege of course, I had, you know, and, um. And how much I. Like. I really. I feel. I feel kind of protective. Like, I want. I wish they had what they needed to live comfortably. I met an old, older man who was just passing his days and was talking about how hard it was to live, like, as a blind man, and that he really wasn't getting enough support. And this village, what's amazing about this village is actually it was known, and it still is known for its peaches. And the blindness kind of overtook it, like, when people kind of discovered that there was just a lot of blind people living there. [00:28:01] Speaker B: Uh huh. [00:28:03] Speaker A: Yeah. I think that the people themselves, I think. I think the government should support them more. [00:28:15] Speaker B: Does the. Did they have, like, any jobs? Any of them have jobs, or did they have any kind of little. Some sighted people who tended to be protectors of the village, or how did that work? [00:28:31] Speaker A: I mean, they were very insular community. They were very, like, skeptical. But then when they found out that I was blind, they were willing to talk to me a little bit because I'm blind, too. [00:28:43] Speaker B: Ah, okay. [00:28:44] Speaker A: Because, you know, there is a connection. I cannot deny. There is, no matter who I come across. And if they're blind to there, there's. There's a common lived experience, right? It's not a lived experience, but there's something there. And, um, I didn't have enough time to really investigate. I don't have all those answers, but I think about them, and I really wish them all the best, and I hope they're doing well and that they're getting what they need. [00:29:14] Speaker B: I just found that a very interesting thing. Like, who would have thought that there would be this just village of people there that, you know, had. It sounded like there were kind of various degrees of blindness. Like, they weren't all necessarily total, but they definitely had a disadvantage in where being so remote. I wonder if you would talk about what you felt like the hardest adventure you went on was and why. [00:29:47] Speaker A: Oh, and then you have to ask me hardest in what sense? Ah, internal. You know what I mean? Like. [00:29:57] Speaker B: So I think internally, let's start with what was the hardest one internally. [00:30:08] Speaker A: So I went scuba diving, and I feel like that was an adventure where I really had to go through the emotions of really letting go and really believing that there is another way of interacting with the world other than sight. And to really kind of believe that I had to go through that journey. So there was, like, that was a. That was a challenging internal journey, which I went through, and it was fantastic, actually. I'm really happy I did it, but. [00:30:44] Speaker B: And why did you choose this scuba dive? And weren't you afraid of what you might touch? [00:30:50] Speaker A: No. No, I was not afraid of what I might touch. I panicked when I went underwater in the big sea, the big ocean, and, like, you know, I lost my complete sense to navigate, of course. And, like. And of course, I can't see. So it was just like, it felt very, very disorienting, panic inducing. You know, like, you. You're. And you. You know that your only lifeline to life is this, like, tube of air, and, like, you get so disoriented that you're just like, where is everything? Where's, you know, um, so I panicked. But you all should really watch what happens. This was a. I'm really, like, honored to say that. We got to actually show this at the Vinfen festival at GBH studios here in Boston. So that was kind of got to see the. How about the video on the big screen? [00:31:51] Speaker B: How about externally? What was the hardest one? [00:31:55] Speaker A: London. It was so challenging because it was just, like, constant, like, where's your caretaker? Where's your caretaker? Like, where's your caretaker? Like, let me do my thing. Like, so talk. [00:32:07] Speaker B: Talk a little about that. What. What happened there? [00:32:11] Speaker A: Um, I was stopped. They didn't. Like, by the London Underground. By the London Underground workers there. They were trying to do their job, you know, but they were like, you can't go on the train on your own. And I was like, what do you mean, I can't ride the train on my own? You know? Like, you can't ride it on your own? And I was like, what do you mean? Like, I couldn't process that. You know, coming from America, I couldn't process that limit. [00:32:36] Speaker B: Right. [00:32:37] Speaker A: And they were like, it's just policy. We don't want any blind people, like, going on the train on their own. And I was just like, I just couldn't. Like, I couldn't comprehend that. I understand they were trying to do the job. I told them, I'm grateful and glad that there are systems to help blind people navigate the London underground. Right. Like, I didn't. Like I said, but, like, I want the choice to use it or not. So I was just like, there's some argument there you should watch also to see what happens, because it actually ended up very nicely with them. [00:33:13] Speaker B: But I remember that one. [00:33:15] Speaker A: Yeah, that was a bit of a challenge because just culturally, like, I wasn't. It felt like everybody just expected me to have a caretaker, so there wasn't as much I could do in terms of just asking people on the street, because there would just be like, why are you asking me? Where's your caretaker? [00:33:32] Speaker B: Right. [00:33:36] Speaker A: But I really love London, so it's a very complicated. It's a very complicated for me. [00:33:41] Speaker B: And, yeah, you'd think that people go to work there that can't see every day. And so I'm wondering exactly what I said. [00:33:48] Speaker A: I was like, what? [00:33:49] Speaker B: What do they do? Like, is it just certain parts that are policy? [00:33:54] Speaker A: They just thought it was a follows. [00:33:56] Speaker B: Oh, that's really weird. What was your favorite adventure? [00:34:03] Speaker A: I mean, honestly, I love them all. Like, it like, I love going to Machu picchu. I loved scuba diving. I loved riding camels in Morocco and just haggling in the souks there. I. I loved it. You know what? I have another challenging one. Another. You asked for, like, what was a challenging adventure. [00:34:35] Speaker B: Uh huh. [00:34:36] Speaker A: The adventure itself wasn't challenging, but I kind of went through a challenging emotion when I went to Norway. [00:34:42] Speaker B: Okay. [00:34:43] Speaker A: I went ziplining. I love zip line. So I started off, like, joyous laughing. Halfway through, it struck me, I'm going down the zip line in one of the most beautiful parts in the world, known for the scenery, and I couldn't. [00:34:59] Speaker B: See a thing right. [00:35:00] Speaker A: It struck me. And I actually went through a process of grieving. Like, I was grieving my eyesight loss. [00:35:15] Speaker B: You know, don't you think? Or wonder if we all do that on and off, though? I mean, it just takes your special moment, though, right? So I remember when I hit it and I hadn't remembered seeing because I lost mine when I was very, very young. But I remember when I first learned to drive. I first, somebody actually was bold enough to teach me how to drive, and it hit me. It totally hit me. What that was what it meant. The feeling that a person must have when they get behind the wheel and are able to just pull their keys out, go where they want, when they want, pretty much. Do you know what I'm saying? [00:36:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:36:03] Speaker B: That feeling of that type of, I will never be able to do this. And it was a total grieving moment. Actually made me angry for a while, you know? And then. And then it was grief. But I suspect that everyone has their moment that, you know, that really touches them and. [00:36:29] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, and I think it's very normal. I mean, it's like, just loss, just like any other loss. And then it was really interesting for me because it happened, like, in season two, after I went to Paran, I had this experience in Norway, and before I really had to go through believing that, even though I lost this particular sense that I have other things that allow me to interact with the world. And that was something that I kind of full circled came back to when I went scuba diving. It was a phenomenal kind of even journey for me. And I feel like that's what travel can do for you, is make you introspect. [00:37:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:11] Speaker A: I went from, like, seeing the privilege I had, but also connecting with the people in Peron, like, in this village, to grieving my loss, you know, to then realizing, yes, I might have lost something, but I also have a lot of other things right. That it's not just the lack, but truly believing that, you know, truly experiencing that. When I went scuba diving, you'll. You'll watch the episode. I calmed down enough that I heard the coral and the divemaster had said, like, very, like, new divers never hear the coral. Like, it's just you have to be so calm and you're breathing so slow to be able to hear them. I remember the moment I heard the coral. I teared up. I felt like I was being hugged by the ocean by this thing that was scaring me because it was so vast, became, like, it was welcoming me. And I'll never forget that moment, too. And I felt like it kind of was the continuation of the journey of, you know, going from grief to accepting the rest of what I have. [00:38:28] Speaker B: It's interesting. Did you ever think about how. How does that freedom, respect, communication and assistance compare to. From, you know, from here to all the other places you've traveled? You know what I mean? Like, I always. Right. I always find myself comparing. Like, I mean, the. The big thing is accessibility, right? Are there markers? Are there. Is there braille on anything? Is there, you know that. But it's more than that. It's. What are the people, like? What. What are their. What do the. How do they treat you? How do they communicate? Do they communicate with you? Yeah. And I wonder if it's the whole spectrum. [00:39:19] Speaker A: We can spend, like, so much time. I feel like that. That's. That's a whole, like, massive topic, but hundred percent. Like, I think there's an element, like, and I feel like it boils down to this. Who truly respects your freedom to choose? That means a lot to me. Right. I want to be able to choose and have the tools that I need to be able to go where I need to go and do what I need to do. I had, for example, I had an amazing dive master. Like, I needed somebody who truly believed that it's good for a blind person to die. I didn't want to be learning from somebody who was like, nope, nope, nope, nope. I, like, scared every second. Like, that's not gonna. It's not gonna help. Right? So, yeah, this question is huge. Like, it really, really changes a lot. What sometimes one to one interactions to cultural. But, yeah, go ahead. [00:40:17] Speaker B: What was it like to know that you were being videoed all the time? [00:40:23] Speaker A: Honestly, I forgot a lot of the times. [00:40:25] Speaker B: Did you? [00:40:27] Speaker A: Yeah, I did. I really. I. Like, even though, like, it was like, when I went scuba diving, I completely let, like, it's out of. It was out of my mind, I was, like, too focused on, like, what is happening? I'm under the water. Like, so, like, I totally, like, kind of was in the moment. There are moments in which I do remember. There are moments I kind of forget because, remember, I'm, like, I'm too focused on. On the task ahead of me, especially navigating on my own. I'm not sitting there thinking, oh, my God, is Natalie catching this? Like, I'm, like, thinking, where do I need to go next? Once in a while, I'm like, wow, that was really cool. Did Natalie catch you? I don't know. [00:41:11] Speaker B: What were some of the. If you could have, you know, a few takeaways, something that just changed your perspective, what would they be? [00:41:22] Speaker A: I mean, I think it was all the things I talked about, I think, like, realizing it's okay to grieve, but also realizing how much more I still have. Right. Not focusing on the lack. Sometimes society just reminds you of what you lack because it's just so obvious to everybody, and, yeah, I think that was a really big takeaway. It's truly, like. And realizing that I hadn't really believed it before. You know what I mean? Like, truly believing there are other ways to interact with the world. I remember once somebody showed me an article that it was like a family in England was going on a world trip because all their kids are gonna go blind, so they wanted to show them the world before they went blind. And I feel like, fundamentally, to experience the world. Yes. Eyesight could be one tool, right? But it's just one. We have so many other senses, right? Experience the world. You don't need to see. You could see, but you don't need to. And that's another. Just a massive takeaway, right. That I could eat the food, interact with the people, smell the air, go diving, you know, hear new things. Like, it's just so, so much more than just one sense. [00:42:37] Speaker B: At the risk of being slightly tacky, smell the people. You know, it's interesting. Different cultures have different scents. You know, it's. It's, you know, from everything from maybe what they. What they wear to bathing to different perfumes or different spices to cooking, to how they. You know, it's. It is really an interesting thing when you let your nose do the. [00:43:07] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's just people specifically. Like, also, like, the environments, the air. Like, sometimes you don't even realize that, like, the smell of the city is just different here. And, you know, as a whole, you. [00:43:24] Speaker B: Are coming to Minnesota, and I am so excited. So talk to me about what's happening this summer. Saturday. Sorry for all you people who can't be here. [00:43:33] Speaker A: I really hope you can come, whoever is listening. So basically, in Minnesota, in Arden Hills at the Robert the cultural center, we are having a premiere of the season two playing shins and Canes movie where you can come and watch the movie. I will be there and then I'll open it up to questions so you can come and ask all the questions you have. Free event, free popcorn, free snacks. Please come bring your friends. So let me just repeat the information. It will be on Saturday. Doors open at 01:30 p.m. in Arden Hills. The address is 3533 Lexington Avenue North. Arden Hills, Minnesota. [00:44:20] Speaker B: Come and it starts at two, right. The movie does starts at two. [00:44:24] Speaker A: Doors open at 130. We'll watch the movie and then questions for all. Like, we'll open it up to Q and A. Both me and Natalie Guzzi, the camera woman for playing strains and canes will be there to field any questions that you might have. And again, it's a free event. How it will be pop. [00:44:44] Speaker B: How long is the movie? [00:44:46] Speaker A: An hour and 20. [00:44:48] Speaker B: Okay. So allow about two, at least 2 hours. [00:44:52] Speaker A: Yes. Please come. And I am very excited to hear what people have to ask for you. [00:44:58] Speaker B: And what, what do you want people to get from this? [00:45:05] Speaker A: Oh, I think I'll leave that up to them. Like, I feel like everybody goes on a different adventure, so I'd love to hear what, what people did get from this. I should open up survey. [00:45:15] Speaker B: Yes, I think you, you should. But what do you like when you were putting this together, what was going through your head? Like, why did you want to put it together as far as to show it? [00:45:29] Speaker A: I wanted to show the world that you can be blind and experience it. And I also wanted to experience traveling. And honestly, how many blind travel hosts do you know? [00:45:44] Speaker B: I should open, I should open it up to Charlene because Charlene is my pr person. So Charlene, even listening to all this, did you, is there anything you were curious about? [00:45:57] Speaker C: There is a lot there. And as someone who moved around in life from Kansas, Kansas City to Chicago to Minneapolis, here, I experienced some of those things. You know, it's, I can't even describe it. It's a way of living and you have to be a part of it. [00:46:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:31] Speaker B: And what is your next adventure, Mona? [00:46:35] Speaker A: Mom. Coming to Minnesota. [00:46:36] Speaker B: Wow. Yes. But what do you, what are you, are you planning a part three? [00:46:42] Speaker A: I actually. So we'll see. I'm getting invited to speak in Malaysia about playing strains and canes which is amazing and exciting. They're flying me out there, and it's a group that promotes women travelers like, to, you know, for women to travel as a form of empowerment. So it's gonna be really awesome. It's Zefiko. So that's my next adventure. I'm hoping we're becoming a nonprofit, playing shades and gains. We would love to open it up. If anybody wants to fund another season, please let me know. Yeah. [00:47:17] Speaker B: Adventures of where would you go that you feel like you've missed, that you haven't? Are there specific places you wish you would have gone? [00:47:29] Speaker A: I mean, everywhere. Like, I don't. Like, I feel like I want to explore as much as I can. [00:47:37] Speaker B: Talk a little bit about. I know I. I went to Japan, but I went to a different area in Japan. But talk about your experience in. You went to Tokyo. [00:47:50] Speaker A: Yeah, it was. It was. It was phenomenal. [00:47:54] Speaker B: Huge city. [00:47:55] Speaker A: Yeah. But the japanese people really thought through this accessibility. [00:47:59] Speaker B: Yes, they did. [00:48:01] Speaker A: Yeah. It was, like, phenomenal. Like, I really felt like I didn't need to see at all. It was so easy. There were cane guides. I didn't even know how the system was set up, but I just figured it out. [00:48:11] Speaker B: I didn't know how. I know I could have used a couple more weeks there because you. There are guides for, you know, different things for the rail, different things for buses, different things, you know, different types of soundscapes. Right. [00:48:28] Speaker A: Oh, my God. They'll have little sounds indicating that this is the bathroom, maybe, like, running water. They'll have a little, like, if you're in the station, because the station is huge. A little tweety bird indicating that's where the exit is. They will have. Every train line had a different musical tone. [00:48:42] Speaker B: They have braille. They have braille everywhere. They have braille everywhere. I was, like, amazed at all the stuff that was brailled on the railing of staircases. [00:48:53] Speaker A: So you know where to go. [00:48:54] Speaker B: I know. [00:48:55] Speaker A: Oh, my God. [00:48:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I know. It was. [00:48:58] Speaker A: I just didn't read japanese braille. No. [00:49:00] Speaker B: Right. And you noticed the japanese braille is a little bit smaller. It's closer together. I actually have a japanese dictionary, but it is. It is a little closer together. It's amazing. And for all you people who are knowledge based, braille in Japan is called ten g. So. But it's. Yeah. All those places. I'm envious of you. How did you. You must be pretty flexible about adjusting to, like, if you just don't have the best comfortable bed or if you. You know, you. Yeah, I suspect you had to really. Yes. That you. To really kind of be flexible with things. [00:49:52] Speaker A: First season one, we were on such a tight budget. We're like, we're gonna save money by flying at night everywhere. Worst decision ever. It was just like, exhaustion. You just wouldn't, like, we just try to sleep on the plane. Like, we just. It was rough, but, you know, you do what you gotta do. [00:50:11] Speaker B: How did you decide how many days you were spending at each place? [00:50:15] Speaker A: Honestly, it was a budgetary restriction and time, you know, so we had a little bit of a better budget for season two, so we stayed a little bit more and we did more activities. So. [00:50:27] Speaker B: And what advice would you give somebody who's nervous but wants to try it? [00:50:36] Speaker A: I would say one step at a time. Go for it. [00:50:42] Speaker B: So is there any particular thing you would give them? Like, the best thing that you feel like was the most secure to you? The one thing that you maybe felt like it was something you always thought of or checked on before you did something or. [00:51:07] Speaker A: Honestly, if you're really, really nervous, you can do some research. But I feel like, take the first step and just don't think too hard about, like, all the details or whatever. Like, I don't know, like, don't overwhelm me yourself. [00:51:23] Speaker B: Right. Well, mona, I really appreciate you coming on. It was a lot of fun. Is there anything more you'd like to tell us? Can you tell the info for tomorrow once more? [00:51:34] Speaker A: 100%. And I also want to say that all the videos are available for free on YouTube. Just search planes, trains and canes. That's planes, trains, and canes. As for Saturday, the doors open at 130. Event starts at two. The movie is around an hour and 20. It's a two two hour event. Free popcorn, free snacks. Come to the Robota Cultural center. That's Robota Cultural center at 3533 Lexington Avenue, north Arden Hills, Minnesota. [00:52:10] Speaker B: Thank you, Mona. [00:52:13] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:52:16] Speaker B: Good night. This has been disability in progress. The views expressed on the show are not necessarily those of KFAI or its board of directors. My name is Sam. I've been the host of the show. Charlene Dahl is my research pr person and Aaron engineers. And tonight we were speaking with Doctor Mona Minkara. Doctor Minkara is an assistant professor of bioengineering at Northeastern University. She was talking about her story and her project, planes, planes, trains and canes. This is disability in progress, KFEI, 90.3 FM, minneapolis and kfei.org dot. You may email [email protected]. thanks for listening. Bye.