Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:32 <inaudible>
Speaker 1 00:01:09 Three FM, Minneapolis and KVI dot O R G. This is disability and progress. We bring you insights into ideas about and discussions on disability topics. My name is Sam. I'm the host of the show. Thank you so much for tuning in Charlene doll is my research woman greening Charlene. Good, good evening. Good day. Where something, uh, Mason, engineers, thank you for engineering missing tonight. We have an author in our midst. We have Bruce Ariel. Bruce is a author of the book most recently called changing ways. Good evening, or culebras hello, Sam. You know, anybody who knows, knows who is a time listener knows that the show generally airs on the evening. So when I slip and say good evening, that is why, but we are doing podcasts now until things returned back to a little bit of normality. So that means it could be anytime you're listening to this, by the way reminder, if people want to be on my email list to find out what's coming up, they can email me at disability and progress at Sam, jasmine.com. If you have a suggestion or think you know of a topic that should be discussed, we welcome that as well. Thanks so much for joining us tonight. We're speaking with Bruce and Bruce. Can you give me a little bit of a history about you and how you had the idea of becoming an author? Well, um, it kind of unfolded back in the mid eighties. Uh, I had been in lost score, had two years completed, and then because of a mental illness founded impossible to
Speaker 2 00:03:00 Continue in that. And so I became homeless. And when I was out on the streets as a homeless person, another homeless man came up to me, an elderly man. And he found out I'd been in law school and he was kind of wondering what the heck happened to me. And he asked me, he said, say, what do I do with the rest of your life? And I started to tell him, and he put his hands up, put his lips, rated out a piece of paper. And so, uh, I wrote down, I want to be a writer and kind of a girl came over him and he said, then go do it. And, uh, then I was, uh, in a halfway house shortly after that. And she said, what do I do with the rest of your life? And I saw my psychologist and I said, uh, Joan, I got to go back to law school, complete that. And she said, besides that, Bruce, what do I do? And I said, well, I tried to go for it because writing is kind of a, this camera hard profession to really get into, you know, you're not gonna be making money and you know, it's going to be a hard, long road, but that's what I chose. I said, Joan, I got to be a writer then. And she said, write me a poem. And I wrote her a poem and she liked it. Things would just snowball down the mountain since then.
Speaker 1 00:04:26 And how many books to date have you written so far?
Speaker 2 00:04:30 Well, I've written four books, uh, four novels and I have about five or six collections of poetry and Kendall, but I have four paperback books that I have published.
Speaker 1 00:04:45 Excellent. You know, um, going back to, when you discovered you had a mental illness, you know, what is it, is it one in five people that have a mental illness? Um, can you talk about when you first discovered that you did have a mental illness and how it happened, that how did you, how did it lead to your diagnosis? What happened?
Speaker 2 00:05:13 Um, I was in a car accident and I hit my head and the windshield and the very next day I was feeling kind of nauseous and strange from people. And, um, I remember it, my roommates out in the living room when I was in my bedroom that I was saying, I don't want to talk to them. I'm somehow different now. And, um, and so I, I, but I hung in there for about nine months and then I had a psychotic break. I snapped. Yeah. And I couldn't stand the pressure. And, uh, um, and then I was, uh, turned myself into a psych ward with my parents' guidance. And, um, the doctor saw me and after about two minutes, he said your schizophrenia and, uh, that kind of stuck, uh, doctors, once they make that decision, don't want to change because they feel your pain you're unstable anyway. And they wanted to be the pillar of strength. Um, but I think that was misdiagnosed and traumatic brain injury. Um, but that's how it happened. I was it's called schizophrenia.
Speaker 1 00:06:36 So is it really that now, or did you come to S is it something different?
Speaker 2 00:06:43 Well, no, it's just schizophrenia. That's what I'm being treated for. Um, I kinda, she, I had, there was an angel involved and, uh, I had a vision of an angel, which I believe was real. I'm a Christian and it seemed very, very real to me. I could really, really distinguish a voice out there that was over me and kind of guiding me. And when the doctors heard about the angel scientists, the, that it was delusion, it thought it was delusional. That's why they called me schizophrenia. And they still, they still to this day, my doctor still is a scientist and he does not really have time for guide. And so he doesn't really understand the things that I say. So he still thinks I'm schizophrenia. And, uh, truthfully I, uh, my mind can go off. I have to be careful because my mind can go off and I did have a severe problem with mental illness, but I think it was because of the car accident, but he thinks it's schizophrenia. And I just don't want him to go off again. It was too hard to come back from it.
Speaker 1 00:08:01 Right. The mental illness clearly, um, came before you were an author. Um, was it easy for you to transfer your knowledge over to paper and write about, you know, your experiences? Like, yeah,
Speaker 2 00:08:18 I want, I wanted him to, uh, Bob Dylan was once asked, why do you rate all these things? He goes, it just comes to me. And that's how it was for me. I just had to talk about it. I just felt this burning desire to talk about it. And people would say, why are you telling me this? And I would just kind of be dumbfounded in knowing that I really needed to, I needed the tack. And, um, you know, it wasn't really particularly easy cause I wrote about some things that were embarrassing, even incriminating, and that was easy to do. But, and, and the truth that in the spirit of artists theory or artists, just three, um, artistry, uh, I wanted to be truthful. And, uh, so I was, and it wasn't real easy, but, uh, it, it, it just came there. I just put it on paper. What can we do without thinking too much, especially my first book city, boy. Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:09:25 Yes. Which, which we had you on, then that's right. We go way back
Speaker 2 00:09:31 And we do
Speaker 1 00:09:33 So it was funny. We were talking before the, um, before the show and we were talking about holidays and actually holidays is a very common that it's a lonely time. I don't think it's just lonely for people with mental illness. I know people who are, you know, they're just alone and it can be lonely for them too. But, um, for mentally ill people, it can be very difficult to manage. Uh, and so I wondering how you, have you ever been lonely during the holidays? And if so, how did you deal with that? Or how do you deal with that? If that still is the case?
Speaker 2 00:10:10 Well, Sam ever since that angel visited me, I'd never been lonely. I always have, I have God in my life after I think his bone fight is because she led me address you. And the more she kept giving me more and more, and that's always how it's been. And I've never been without, even when I was homeless, I was not really, really, without, I always had hope. I always had the vision always in something good in my life. So I have not experienced with a lot of people experienced that pain of loneliness. I just either I don't allow myself to get lonely or I really am not lonely, which I think is the case. I'm really not lonely, but I do have a friend now that, uh, we talk a lot on the phone and she's a great joy of my life and I'm not lonely, but I know there are people that are,
Speaker 1 00:11:07 And I wonder, um, it's interesting because you talk about, you don't allow yourself to get lonely. And I think of that sometimes when I think of, I don't allow myself to get lazy or I don't allow myself to get, you know, fill in the blank, but it's more than just that. Right. Um, it's more than that. Yeah. I think sometimes you have to have a purpose or a feeling that, that you have something to turn to. Um, I'm not sure if it needs to be religious, but I think it has to be something that fills you. And what's your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 00:11:39 Well, that's exactly what I think. And, um, you know, it'd be pretty hard for me to say that my, my vocation really serves a great purpose, but I, I have been able to, he got kind of either for yourself a little bit or, or really summing up all your abilities to think that, you know, a blue collar job can, uh, be purposeful, but it really can be, you know, I'm, I'm not cogs in the wheel. I, I, uh, keep the wheel moving. We keep the mail moving. That's my sense of purpose. And I, Alex, believe because the angel visited me, it, God has a purpose for me. I've been blessed that way. I always felt that there was purpose. My dad was a class, very tight about the meaning and life. And he was very encouraging about having a purpose in life. So I've kinda, you know, become comfortable and, and hung on to the fact that there is a purpose in my life. It's that meaningless to me, we're tracking is one of the hardest things. If people think their life is meaningless.
Speaker 1 00:12:52 Yes. I think you're right. Um, I would like to talk about your latest book, uh, changing ways and which features characters living with mental illness is talk a little bit about what that's about.
Speaker 2 00:13:09 Well, Katie weighs is about a young girl. That's quite rebellious with her father. Uh, she's uh, kind of upset that she's got a mental illness, but doesn't really throw up her hands and says she gets rebellious and goes for her father's drug dealer, trying to really search, I think, uh, for his love. And she tests them a lot. And, uh, no, she thinks she sees light at the end of the tunnel because I gave her a vision kind of the same way I had one and she's got an angel in the light. So she sees light at the end of the panel, but she doesn't know how to get there. She thinks it's through her father. And, uh, so she becomes really rebellious and he's kind of uncomfortable because she's really gone for Stewart. And, uh, and he's trying to maintain, because he's a judge and the Manhattan mental health court, and he's got to keep, uh, his, his job and line.
Speaker 2 00:14:18 And she's, she's really trying to, now that kind of parallels a little bit with me in my life. I was rebellious against my parents. And, uh, you know, I thought that my salvation came to them and it turns out alert sense. It has that rebellion, you know, is probably necessary for lad people to go through in order to find really peace of mind. And I think it's like just staking your finding your wings, finding your dress. And like you got to rebel a little bit and almost cast off other people's expectations of you. And, uh, you know, uh, what society demands you. I mean, you can't go well violating the laws, which I did a little bit. Um, but you can't, you really can't do that because that will quote you to pay a price. And, uh, but you can rebel, you can just say, it's my life. Um, I'm the one that has to live it. So I am the one in the driver's seat and that's what the young girl was really trying to do. I think, well, that's kind of what my ambitions for her work. And in the end, she kind of is able to do that.
Speaker 1 00:15:43 You know, writing about a mental illness when you have one, I would think could be very personal. I'm wondering how much do you share about yourself in your writings?
Speaker 2 00:15:54 Well, I'm very fiction now. Um, um, there's a reason for that. It's like, uh, the story I had from my own life in my head was just too tragic. Uh, I, this hasn't really happened to me and how I would really was, was too tragic for anybody to really see much value and read much interested. That's just try, uh, they, they call you mentally ill and they try to understand your delusions and your, uh, your problems, but it was too tragic for me. So I, I kinda took a leap and, uh, said, you know, my life is great. And I, you know, I've been saved through Christianity and, uh, and then, uh, the stuff that happened to me in the past, I'm not going to do it. I'm going to create my own reality. And so that's what I do in my novels is just kind of create my own reality. I realized I got to stay in touch with other people, and I can't just, but a lot of the great Argus, uh, took that leap where they just said, I'm going to write fiction. I'm going to create almost a make-believe life. That's that's that's based that gets us ideas from reality, but creates a world of imagination. And that's why don't wonder if Christ did that in itself with the kingdom of God. You know, I am quite proud of being an artist creating this reality.
Speaker 1 00:17:42 Um, and I would think, you know, one of the issues that what one could have is, you know, one of the things you discuss in your book is boundaries. And, um, I would think you as an artist, need to, uh, set boundaries, uh, that it would be important to keep a boundary between you and your writings, excuse me. And is that at least your personal life in your writing? Is that something that's hard to do?
Speaker 2 00:18:11 Well, yeah, it has been for me Tuesday. I probably could say I've had boundaries shit. I told my most personal life in city boy in LA or rich would not do that. Lot of people would just not do that. They save that for the close friend or lover and that's about it, but I told the world kind of my vulnerabilities. So it was an issue with me that, and that, that is my, and that's where they've been helpful. They say that's not right. That's kind of mental illness and wanting to do that. And in some sense, I kind of agree with him. I just wanted to do it because I felt maybe I could help somebody, uh, avoid the mistakes I made.
Speaker 1 00:19:00 Do you ever regret kind of letting that guard down and breaching that boundary so to speak?
Speaker 2 00:19:06 Well, it meant, uh, no, I didn't have a family and I think that a lot of women would have been kind of, I had a girlfriend and she seemed to handle it. Okay. But she kept encouraging me to shut up that, tell everybody everything, you know? And so I think it would've been difficult, especially if I had kids. Kids would wonder what the heck is dad doing? Tell him people his deep secrets. Um, like I said, I had a reason for doing that. So keeping my boundaries is always been an issue with me. And, uh, and the doctors have helped me with that. It's been hard for me to shut up because I think I have so much truth, uh, that I see in society and in my life did I think I might have permission to tell. So at any expense, you know, our R is the highest and should I just keep telling it?
Speaker 2 00:20:15 But I, like I said, now I write fishing. It's that stuff that us, I think some of my friends kind of cringe at some of the stuff I told him, city boy, the Catholics were knocking at their door and, uh, you know, uh, I gotta be careful because there are laws, there are privacy, these are boundaries that you can hurt people. You not even realizing you're hurting and, uh, say it, be careful. That's why I chose patients. Cause it seems so innocuous tell me, he says, well, this isn't true, so I can, you know, I can accept it. You can make it what you want. Right.
Speaker 1 00:20:53 Right. I want to know is how you currently, um, you know, you talk about this concept in your, uh, story, changing ways about, um, mental health court. And it seems like a concept that's built on fairness and, um, the idea of giving someone a chance when they've done something wrong or against the law. Talk a little bit about how it currently works. Do you have an idea of how it currently works when somebody who's mentally ill, uh, commits a crime or does something,
Speaker 2 00:21:36 Um, I think most, most counties now have a mental health court. Uh, um, um, the twin cities does. Um, so you, you, you break the law, you have a mental illness and the psychiatrist that interviews you determines, to what extent your mental illness was, the PR was the cause of you breaking the law. And that's what they did with me, but it wasn't mental health court. It was just, that's why I am so proud of my judge, that she was ahead of her time. Anyway. Now the ego before psychiatry is they probably determined that you, you, uh, couldn't help yourself because of your mental illness. So you go to the mental health court and they usually have, uh, requirements of you. Sometimes it's a commitment to a halfway house or a program that sort of, it was for me. Um, uh, or they have you commit to a AA meetings or a volunteer job, or they have you, there's some price you gotta pay, but you just don't go to the penal system, the prison or the, the, uh, that criminal method, the criminal group home, uh, you, uh, you can have taken out of the criminal system and put it in the mental health system, so to speak, and you probably are required to take meds that the system is really, really high on medication because they see it works.
Speaker 2 00:23:20 They see people that were in that probably is the case with me. Um, you see people that were just totally, almost, uh, incompetent come back and become responsible citizens and it's after they take their meds. And, uh, so that's, that's a really a testimony to the power of those medications they give you, but you can't, you can't dwell on that. You have to dwell on your own resources and what you go, the dressing you think, thankful for the meds, but realizing it still requires some effort on your part
Speaker 1 00:23:59 In your book, changing ways. How did you decide what the rules would be? You know, that the people would have to follow when they're being, um, put in mental health court. Did you go by regular rules like that, you know, in Minnesota, or did you kind of elaborate on your own ideas
Speaker 2 00:24:19 More or less elaborate in my own eye? I remember when the judge told me she committed me to a halfway house and I believe I had some other responsibilities. I seen a psychiatrist, I think she recommended Amy. She had cancer. So I kind of was gone and what had happened in my life before the judge. And, uh, but some of it was just totally fiction. Totally what I elaborated on, uh, because I believe it and I believe it's a little bit accurate. Um, you know,
Speaker 1 00:24:58 I want to talk about, um, I'm going to play devil's advocate a little bit. It's always dangerous when I go on here. But, um, you know, I want to talk a little bit about people's rights or lack thereof. Um, you know, my belief has always been when one person's rights begin yours end, um, I wonder how much of a chance people should be allowed to get there. Certainly some people who do some really horrible things and it is one thing to be, um, diagnosed as mentally ill, but how much, how, how far do you go and how many chances do you get, do you ever think about that? Or maybe that's your next book? Huh?
Speaker 2 00:25:48 I'm thinking that what they usually do in mental health court is it has to be a non-violent offense. Well, if you use violence, if you kill somebody or a fell, somebody they usually don't feel is open to, uh, getting in the mental health court.
Speaker 1 00:26:10 Do you feel like that's fair?
Speaker 2 00:26:14 I know that people that commit those acts are under tremendous, tremendous pressure to do that. They think God is telling them to do that. A lot of them, and, uh, they're really incapacitated. But, um, truthfully I think there is in everybody, a little bit of competency. We have to ask, you have to ask yourself, is this really will. You have to be competent enough to understand that God does not generally or ever once you kill him, somebody else you have to understand. And if you do that, then you've gone too far. You've, you've, uh, you've wrecked your life. Um, there's some people that thought that my life had gone too far and had no time for them. Uh, but thankfully I still fit within the purview of mental health court. And it wasn't really a mental health court, true by name. But I, and I respect it was the way she handled the courtroom at that time. Um, she felt that I had not gone too far in Merrill Francis to, to be locked up.
Speaker 1 00:27:38 Okay. So you were blessed to have that.
Speaker 2 00:27:43 I didn't do anything that really hurt anybody, Sam.
Speaker 1 00:27:47 Mm. Yeah. And that's important. Um,
Speaker 2 00:27:50 Important. The judge sees that, you know, and they're not blind to the fact that now here I tell you what I did. I took off all my clothes and Skyway. And of course you can't have people doing that. That's illegal and it's disruptive, scares people, but she, she got it
Speaker 1 00:28:09 You'll laugh. But to me,
Speaker 2 00:28:12 They didn't take it the only way to take it now. Yeah. And thankfully she sat that way till he, she, I mean, she had to maintain her stature and, uh, daily of office. So she wasn't laughing about it. But, uh, she realized that I didn't really hurt anybody. And, uh, you know, so she, she, uh, she knew that if I did something like that, it must've been crazy. It wasn't just a streaking thing. Like the sixties, it was more because I had to do it, you know, and she realized there was something in me that I had to change. And she gave me a chance and I believe it happened here with Jess. My last thing I wanted to do today, when I step out the doors, take off my clothes.
Speaker 1 00:29:05 Well, I would think the temperature might stop you a little bit, but, um, so you talk about a little bit about the parallels between the main, one of the main characters in the book, uh, Sarah, who is a female character, I'm wondering what made you choose a female character and what things were different between you, you know, with you and Sarah.
Speaker 2 00:29:29 Okay. Um, you know, primarily the challenge of it. And, uh, I've always been for women's rights and I wanted to make Sarah, uh, you know, kind of a, uh, heroin or, you know, uh, she fight her battles in the book. And so did I, and there was that parallel, but she was, uh, she was a woman and I can't help it. I think there's differences between men and women, the struggles we have, I think they're different. And when people say that men and women are the same and, uh, they don't drive to change between men and women, I think they do disservice to both men and women. Um, I think there's a difference. And I just wanted to explore that in my own mind when I was grading, I wanted to really find out, you know, what Sarah was really going through. And no, I just based my, uh, characterization on her and what I see other women going to in society, you know, as much as I know and, uh, and just try to, uh, to put it on paper and making sure in story out of it
Speaker 1 00:30:45 Well, and I think even for those people who think that there's no difference between men and women really, that's not completely true. I mean, down to anatomy differences, even, um, you know, it's, all you have to do is look at society and how people treat people, um, income barriers, things like that.
Speaker 2 00:31:05 That's, that's, that's one reason I worried about a woman is because I'm really sympathetic to the fact that women are not really treated equally in the men. Haven't been, it's the men getting all the attention, the men get all the prizes. And I want to make Sarah as a woman, a Sharon, some victory and add enough how women feel about a man trying to help them. But if I was a person getting help, I would want all the help I could get. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:31:41 Well, I think we all can use that at various times in our life. It sounds like Sarah's relationship with her father paralleled yours similarly, is that correct? And if so,
Speaker 2 00:31:56 Correct. You know, she was rebellious and against your father and I was you both. I had two parents, there's got one, uh, the 3d active in the book while she's got her mother makes an appearance, but it's really between Sarah and her father. And, uh, in my life was between both my parents, but my dad took the brunt of it. And then when he was gone, uh, somehow my mother and her smart self was able to stop me. We belly against her. And she said, why are you biting the hand that feeds you? And that really hit me. And I said, yes, why am I doing that? I, that you're you, you, uh, you stood in my corner from day one and you've always been there even in the psych wards. And I was lucky I had good parents and I believe Bella's is a good father for Sarah. And, uh, um, you know, Sarah, we realize just finally that, uh, why are you biting the hand that feeds you?
Speaker 1 00:33:05 Is, did you, were you able to make amends with your father or
Speaker 2 00:33:11 Yes, I think so. It hasn't, wasn't evolved by the time that he died, that we were really even still totally comfortable about each other. I think we would be now, but my dad was a smart enough to realize that aligner, my rebellion was tied up with, um, my illness and he didn't, he never held my illness against me. He never, you know, never, uh, judge me for that. He could be judgmental, but he wasn't judgmental for that. And, uh, so we had an amicable time, but I still hadn't noticed killing sometimes like the blame, their parents. And, uh, so he understood. I just hoped that I wouldn't hope that was bigger than that. And, uh, so by now, yes, I, I could be really injured. My father, I wish he was here. I really could enjoy him. Now. I see what his plan for me was, and I've tried to live it out, you know, even his death. Um, but yeah, we, we did, who were speaking gently to each other, by the time he died.
Speaker 1 00:34:32 That's good. Uh, helps the healing process. I presume. Yes. Uh, you, you changed from writing, you know, about yourself to writing fiction. Was that to kind of save your boundaries and
Speaker 2 00:34:49 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right in city, boy, it's very unnerving for me. I mean, um, especially when I knew people were reading it, I had a really thick skin about that.
Speaker 1 00:35:05 So in your book, changing ways you have a character called Randall Smith. I believe he's in another book. Um, yep. Everyone is a star and he, it seems like he's a role model to the, one of the other main characters, which is Sarah's father goes, and the book goes back and forth to what is a good role model and how much you should take that. Um, and although I feel like I had, you know, good role models or, or people I considered role models that were famous or anything. Do you think that that is a good thing? I mean, everyone has a role model or sometimes tries to. Right.
Speaker 2 00:35:52 Very, very, I think that we're hitting me in my life. Uh, at one point was a boss told me, he said the world needs stars. And I think we do, and we got to realize is stairs are showers are not, you're not really connected to everyday. Emotions are connected to some higher or some other dimension where they just draw a tremendous amount of attention and themselves, but they do a clever things and they can really use their power to back a cause or to do good things with it. And I think that a star can be a role model. Um, there are sad somebody would confide in necessarily, um, but you can admire them for their grit and the, you can be curious about what makes them tick and why do they have this ability to draw attention to themselves? You can be interested in that, but they, they, they have, uh, there's a danger there that you can put them on such a high pedestal. Uh, they fall through you fall through for them. And, uh, so it's, it's kind of a tricky business. Uh, have a star. I had Bob Dylan and, uh, no, I thought he walked on water and I thought he, I thought he really cared what mirrors the individual, any does to the extent that any human can, but he's got limitations. Geez, this cat might make money and he's got his limitations. I began to realize that, but I didn't hold it against him. I shot, no he's doing the best she can.
Speaker 1 00:37:48 And at that time you must have had the maturity enough to do that. But I think sometimes when people are young and in a certain position, they don't necessarily see
Speaker 2 00:37:59 Absolutely. I didn't when I was young, either, like I said, I felt Bob Dunn was the cat's Meow. I thought he was, he was everything, you know, and sometimes I wonder what we have gone with Christ and Christ is far more compassionate than, than, uh, anybody else. But, uh, you know, I wonder if we haven't put him on some kind of impossible pedestal too, at some point you have to just say, well, what is my life? What, what, what, where, where do I fit into the stares life? And, uh, how I assume responsibility and, and really, uh, really, uh, develop my own talent. And that's where I've been with Dylan is at some point I had to just draw back and say, Hey, you know, Bruce, you're, you want to be a radio too. You can admire Dylan, but you have to pay attention to what your life is. You can't get so absorbed in his that you can't even, uh, be a human being.
Speaker 1 00:39:04 Do you feel like the relationship between Randall and the judge was unhealthy?
Speaker 2 00:39:12 Uh, a little bit. Um, and, and let's start with bill, uh, the judge as he never really developed that ability to, uh, create his own life. He, well, he did create it, but it's way false and accused him of just leaning on Randall Smith so heavily, he, he, uh, didn't have love for her or Shera, um, uh, can have,
Speaker 1 00:39:47 Although he stuck in it when she left. So, um, I, I, I would say, I think everyone has some admiration for somebody and it's, it's hard. I think those boundary lines can be hard. Do you think, what do you think, um, Bob Dylan would have thought about Randall Smith?
Speaker 2 00:40:09 Uh, I only hopefully be amused. Um, you know, I still have this kind of like this feeling about Bob Dunn that I, that I know is, I know it's humorous aside. And what he thinks is funny is quite serious. Most of the time, he's a very serious guy, but I have this kindness and lad, people have that raw. Bob doesn't know what he really thinks about that. He, I don't think Don's trying to be amusing, but I think a lot of people like to know what he thinks is funny and he, he doesn't really express that outwardly, but you can kind of get to know him and read two lines a little bit. And so I'm hoping that if he ever, you know, I'm not being realistic, I'm not contributing. He never read changing ways. Um, um, well, 99.9% sure that there's that 1.1%. I mean, I'm not going to destroy my illusions about him. Totally. I think having a, a kind of a, that's why I write fiction because you got one foot in reality and one foot out, you know, you gotta, you gotta kind of have your dreams, but you have to still stay in reality.
Speaker 1 00:41:37 So what kinds of things, as far as advocacy do you turn to, that have helped you with overcoming your symptoms? Do you feel like you've overcome the symptoms of mental illness or, you know, is it still in your, you know, forefront that maybe, are you ever nervous about slipping or are you pretty secure?
Speaker 2 00:42:02 Wow. Um, I remember the, the slips I had did the ma'am, I'll never, I was have a healthy fear about that, but I'm, I'm pretty secure ground now. Um, I think, and, uh, you know, um, I was just saying that, uh, I'm satisfied with my sensory. We are mainly with the psychiatrist before you able to do your job, are you able to be happy? Do you feel pleasure? They always ask how you feel able to feel pleasure. And, uh, I do, uh, my advocacy is for the Fairweather model, which I am employed to. Um, yeah, I want that. Uh, that's my main, my main focus is they, because they say my life, um, I feel like I want them to be able to save other lives in the same way they saved mine. And so I advocate for that the best I can. Um, I would've been a lot more able to do that if I had gotten that lie to you. So that's, that's so plagues me that I didn't become a lawyer and conflate these things on court myself, but be able to, Barry might be able to find a lawyer that I can tell him my story, and he can take up the church. You never know. I can write about it, Sam.
Speaker 1 00:43:34 That's right. That's true. So let's, I want to touch on the Fairweather model because you talk about that in your book, quite a bit. Talk about what that is.
Speaker 2 00:43:45 Well, the fair weather mile was shared by a guy named George Fairweather in the 1960s. And he believed they had refused to people with a mental illness together in a group and made them accountable to each other. They would actually grow in their stability and their, uh, sanity, you know, leaders would form and followers and, you know, they would hold each other accountable. They really understood the dangers involved with mental illness. They were aware of what a mental health diagnosis meant, and they support each other. So he, he created this latch model where people live in group homes, and I don't live in a group home, but I did for five years. And I still rub shoulders at work with people that do that were just a little more forgiving of that mental health. I think some people just because they've never been there, don't really understand it. And I, I don't at one time, I really wanted to change that. I wanted everybody, but that's when I wrote city boy, but now I'm waiting fiction. I don't need people to really understand what's going on in my head. I've more gotten to the point where I want to engender a message of tolerance and a message. Now you can be curious about some with metals, but they're only going to tell you so much.
Speaker 1 00:45:17 I do. Yes. Yes. And there is a flaw, obviously. Um, there is a flaw that happens in that system with Sarah and the house. And it feels to me like, it was never like the person who did it, she was falsely accused. Right. I mean, I read that correctly. It feels like the person who set her up never paid for never had a consequence.
Speaker 2 00:45:46 Wait, you talking about bang?
Speaker 1 00:45:50 No, uh, the girl who was, she didn't really?
Speaker 2 00:45:54 Oh yeah. All the gold watch. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. That was, she was falsely accused. Yes.
Speaker 1 00:46:02 And is that, is there, I mean, I presume there's like in any,
Speaker 2 00:46:08 Don't forget that last word Sarah said to her, she was leaving a latch and this isn't over yet. So say 10,
Speaker 1 00:46:25 What, what do you want people to take away from the book changing ways?
Speaker 2 00:46:30 Well, you know, I, I want them to be entertained. Uh, I think the worst thing somebody with the methods can have is people to taste the things they say, uh, without a grain of salt, take them at face value, even though sometimes people with the Mesos want white people to believe them. Um, I think you have to understand that that knowledge that they have is flood it's oftentimes delusional or sometimes it's hateful. Sometimes it's very antisocial. And, um, I, I, so I, I want people to be able to see that, uh, people with mental illness, I hope I'm not showing that all my brothers and sisters I'm the same people who had methadone's do have flood thinking. And, and, you know, unless you're an Abraham Lincoln, that's just got depression, which is not really creating delusions. Uh, you have people that are a little bit unreliable because their mind, for whatever reason, uh, dashes in that they have to figure this out.
Speaker 2 00:47:48 Nobody's been really able to figure it out, why their minds are telling them lies, but, uh, they are. So I want people to just understand that. And I think people who have met John's can take comfort from the fact that nobody is really, uh, judging them too harshly for having this flood thinking after I won, I wanted to entertain people, but I also have a strong message that I want him to convey to a understanding that people with mental illness, uh, I have fun thinking and we have to understand what such, but you can't really jump in their face like bill tries to do sometimes and, uh, you know, call them out on it because it's really an impossible situation. Sometimes untangle that creates that confused thinking. I think in my case, I've been quite lucky. I've been able to untangle a significant amount of it to the point that I think I am reliable now. And I take responsibility and name, reliable person, but a lot of people not to hostess and they haven't been able to get that far.
Speaker 1 00:49:07 I do agree with you. I think that, you know, mental illness, like many things that is a disability and we're all responsible for dealing with our disability and figuring out how to make it work for us and how to cope in society and to be, to deal reasonably or as reasonably as we can. And it seems like you've come out on a pretty good end of that and you, yeah.
Speaker 2 00:49:31 And I've had a lot of help, but I've been able to take it bad people in the mess house. So I try to help, uh, some of my coworkers at times kind of have a sense of humor. I mean, some of them I've done things that are not humorous and you can't really work that way with them, but there's lot of people that know, like, uh, just have delusions like, uh, um, their hairs, they're bald and they're all caught up with all this or a being bald and that makes them sick. And I, I try to get them to understand as humorous, you know, that is a funny thing. And, uh, they don't have to be so damn vain about it, that I try to draw out the humor in a situation that's basically the, my life time mode is to make people laugh at not in a sick way, but in a healthy way to realize that we are, we have great, great ambition, but limited abilities. We can only do so much.
Speaker 1 00:50:40 Uh, well I have in my mind, ah, I have my thought on that is like, you can, it's easy to joke with somebody with your own disability, but sometimes when someone else comes in and jokes, it is so not the same.
Speaker 2 00:50:55 That's right. No, I would never say anything to you about blindness. I don't know. I don't know what that plays to go through. And I'm very careful when even when I deal with clients with mental illness, I'm careful don't want to say anything that will offend them or so much.
Speaker 1 00:51:13 So what do you see as your next reading adventure? Do you have an idea yet?
Speaker 2 00:51:18 Yeah. I have a book that I'm working on. I know a hundred pages into it, or so, uh, it's called the best of the world and it's Sarah and a boyfriend who are going to college and going on to law school. And one of them is doing things the old school way with books, notes and pens and paper, you know, Relic, uh, because of a deal they made with each other. And one of the gets you use the gadgets. And so it's kind of this, uh, humans versus the machines. And, uh, I have really truthfully in my own mind decide who's going to win because I want the old school person to win. It'd be romantic to think that the old school, that humans still have it, but it's, it's not really always what you see out there. So I haven't figured out how to be able to handle this yet, but I'm working on it.
Speaker 1 00:52:21 How can people get your books?
Speaker 2 00:52:24 Uh, Amazon inter my name, Bruce Ariel, a R I O Bruce area, all one word. And, uh, you know, my books will come up and then you can just purchase them, uh, online tag me. Um, my email just is Ariel ranger at century link that net, and I will send you a book as well as if that's the way you want to do it.
Speaker 1 00:52:52 That's very, very good. Um, I wish you the best of luck on your, your newest book that will be coming out then any idea of when, or is it a while it's out now while the changing ways is, but the next one,
Speaker 2 00:53:06 The newest, but the newest, but I haven't really set a goal on that yet. I want this book will best live up to its title. And so I'm taking a lot of time with it. I am, and there's not one word in there. I haven't thought over a couple times and may be an exaggeration, but, uh, I, I'm very detailed oriented that way about my words I choose. And I really want them to really feel the struggle. These two young people have in their life, uh, with their illness and with their ambitions and with their love for each other. You know, it's kind of a love story too.
Speaker 1 00:53:52 Aw, well, I really have enjoyed our interviews and I wish you the best in this book and the one that you'll have coming out at some, some undefined date. Charlene, I want to check to see if you had any questions or if I ask them all,
Speaker 2 00:54:12 Uh, Bruce, I worked in mental health for many, many years at a VA, and I'm impressed with how you're, uh, trying to get out the word that mental illness is a part of our society. And, and there's things that can happen that are in the good light. It's all not a negative. Hey, Sheraton, you it's, if people like you that made my life a whole lot easier because I did not really have that explanation, uh, for myself, I had to get there from other people.
Speaker 1 00:54:43 Well, thank you, Bruce again. And is there anything you want to leave us with?
Speaker 2 00:54:48 Um, I've always given us advice. You know, people ask me if I have any words of wisdom, follow your dream, follow your dream, because if you lose your dreams, you've lost a significant part of your life. I know there are people that have last year dreams and I can them aware of the poverty that we have in our nation and how difficult it would be to feel you can live out Eugene, you know, with your day to day, not knowing whether you have enough money at the end of the day to eat. I know it's impossible for a lot of people, um, but there's a lot of shelter that can still live there, gene and encourage people to do that, uh, and, uh, really follow their dream.
Speaker 1 00:55:39 Well, thank you again, and I wish you the best.
Speaker 2 00:55:43 Thank you so much, Sam. It's been my pleasure to talk with you. Um, so I saw him happy that we got together today.
Speaker 1 00:55:51 I am too. This has been disability and progress. The views expressed on this show are not necessarily though of KPIs or its board of directors. My name is Sam. I'm the host of the show. Charlene doll is my research woman. Mason engineered. Thank you, Mason. We were speaking with Bruce Ariel. Bruce is the author of changing ways, which is the book we talked about today, but he has many other books, um, or at least three other books I believe. And some poetry on Amazon. This is cafe 90.3, FM, Minneapolis and kpi.org. If you'd like to be on my email list, you can email me at disability and progress at Sam, jasmine.com and suggestions are welcome and ideas about the show as well. Fresh fruit is up next, unless you're listening to this podcast. And in that case is keep listening to other podcasts that we have. Thanks so much for listening.
Speaker 3 00:56:49 Good evening.
