Disability and Progress-December 19, 2024- Blind Hockey!

[00:00:00] Speaker A: KPI.org. [00:00:33] Speaker B: IT&Greetings and thank you for joining Disability and Progress, where we bring you insights into ideas about and discussions on disability topics. My name is Sam. I'm the producer of the show. Thanks so much for tuning in. Charlene Dahl is my research PR person. Hello, Charlene. Hello. And happy holidays to everybody. Happy holidays. And Miguel, I just want to thank Miguel. Take this time to thank Miguel because Miguel is kind of. He saves us so often. He whips in here when I have some technical trouble. He helps me engineer when we do it from home. And he's just really been a real lifesaver for us, our show. So thank you, Miguel. Aaron is our podcaster. Thank you, Aaron, as always. And thank you, the listeners, for joining us. Today's Thursday, December 19, 2024, and tonight we are interviewing Drew Garza. Drew will be with us talking about, well, blind hockey. Drew is the blind hockey rep from USA Hockey and a player for the Chicago blind and US national teams. Hello, Drew. [00:02:17] Speaker A: Thank you. Thank you for having me. [00:02:18] Speaker B: Yes. Did I get that announcement right? For all the things that you do. And you're also. You founded and run a dented puck foundation, is that right? [00:02:31] Speaker A: Yes. [00:02:32] Speaker B: We will get to that in a bit and we'll discuss what that is. But we need to talk about this. Drew. Blind hockey. I remember hockey in high school. I used to watch it more, and I don't so much now, but holy cromoly. Like, I would have never thought about myself with a visual impairment going on the ice, swinging a puck, and doing various things like that. Mostly because I value my face and my front teeth. But. So why don't you start out by. Can you explain what blind hockey is and how does it differ from traditional hockey? [00:03:14] Speaker A: Absolutely. So what I play is blind ice hockey. And there's really, I'll say, three major differences between our version of the sport and what you would see in the NHL or at the local high school level. The biggest one would be our puck. [00:03:34] Speaker B: Okay. [00:03:35] Speaker A: It's five inches wide by two inches tall. It's made out of sheet steel and has ball bearings in it. So it's audible as it crashes across gas. [00:03:44] Speaker B: This. [00:03:44] Speaker A: I'm gonna do it real quick, but that. This is one of our pucks that I just rattle. [00:03:53] Speaker B: I couldn't hear it, man. [00:03:57] Speaker A: I apologize. My microphone is not picking that up. It is loud, I promise you. So, yeah, it's a metal puck that the ball bearings being in it as it travels across the ice, it makes an auditory tracking for us. And then the size is also Good for our low vision players. [00:04:18] Speaker B: So I'm just curious because with when you're playing hockey on the ice, you know, there's all the extraneous noise in the background and things like that, you know, audience or whatever you're playing, wherever you're playing, and you can still hear it. [00:04:35] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. You would be surprised when you're on the ice, the glass and everything that kind of separates you from the crowd is a really good sound barrier for you. So it may be really loud outside of the rink, but on the ice you can hear that puck really well. And the big thing is communication between our players as far as letting people know where the puck is, where the players are, and things like that. [00:05:01] Speaker B: Can you tell me how blind hockey, you know, how it originated and like, how has it, how has it changed over the years? [00:05:10] Speaker A: So it started in the 70s in Canada, and that figures. It started in three different areas. I think that Montreal was the first, but they were using different kinds of pucks. Some people were using tires, some are using soup cans. You know, they're. They're using pretty much everything. And they finally came together. I want to say it was in 2010, maybe a little bit later than that. But they, they made a standardized puck, which is what we use today. In 2014, the United States started their first programs. And since then we've grown to. Right now there's over a dozen teams, almost 300 players across the country. A lot of young kids are starting to get into it too, so we're growing in that aspect as well. But once we kind of standardized the puck, there hasn't been a whole lot of advancement from that point on. I feel like it's one of those that we felt like, if it isn't broke, don't fix it. But we're definitely still looking at ways to make it more accessible for all levels of vision players. [00:06:25] Speaker B: What inspired you to play such a sport? [00:06:33] Speaker A: So I was, I. I call myself lucky. I was lucky that I didn't lose my vision until I was 28. Ah. So I played hockey since I was six. And the first thing I said to my wife when I came out of one of my last doctor's visits was, I'm never going to play hockey again. And a couple years later, I was like, there's beat baseball, there's all these other blind sports. There's gotta be something out there for hockey. And I looked up and there's Chicago Blackhawks blind hockey. And I thought I'd coach and they told me I could play. And here I am, I'm just curious. [00:07:13] Speaker B: If you wouldn't mind sharing for people out there, how much vision do you have? [00:07:18] Speaker A: So I've got about 20 degrees of vision in my right eye and then I'm completely gone in the left. So I have a very narrow tunnel that I see down. But I also feel that I'm lucky that it's in my central vision. [00:07:34] Speaker B: Right. [00:07:35] Speaker A: I'm not kind of. It's funny to say because for my day to day life, my friend and I both have the same kind of visual condition. For day to day life, my vision's great because I can see what's directly in front of me and I can see it pretty well. But when it comes to a sport like hockey where everything is in your peripheral and it's people moving around you and pretty. It adds a whole new level of. Yeah, yeah. And it adds a whole new level of concentration that you don't really think about till you're in it. [00:08:03] Speaker B: And I presume you would tell like if some kid came up to you and say of course you could learn to do it. But I'm also presuming that you kind of have a little bit of a jumpstart since you had your vision and you played and now you don't so much so. But you kind of have the idea and you've done it before. And so I presume there's a lot of learned muscle stuff and kind of like you, when you hear things now, you're more attentive and you can kind of know what's. Oh yeah, this is what's happening. [00:08:37] Speaker A: Yeah, it's, it's an interesting kind of two sides of the same coin. For me. I was very lucky that I, I did have the hockey background and then I lost my vision. So I had to kind of learn the blind side of it. For some of our players that are blind going into it and learning hockey, they're, they're learning the hockey side of it, but the blind aspects, the, the tracking is a little bit better. It's a little easier for them to kind of figure that part out. And I mean it's, it's also one of those that I, I've got some teammates on the national team that only started playing six years ago and from, learn from scratch, being blind and their, their leagues better than I will ever be or ever was when I was in high school. So I, I don't, I do agree with the statement though that anyone can learn this sport and be successful and, and play at the highest level in it. [00:09:38] Speaker B: Can you describe, like, what your experience as a part of the Chicago blind hockey team has been like? What. What was that like for you when you found out you could do that? [00:09:51] Speaker A: I think that we all gravitate towards community. And up until that point, I hadn't really accepted that I was blind. I didn't have any. I didn't go to. I wasn't part of the NFB or ACB or anything like that. [00:10:08] Speaker B: Right. [00:10:10] Speaker A: Finding this group, you. I found my community because it's hockey players and they happen to be blind. So I tell this joke all the time, but the first practice, I ran into a door, and I got into the locker room and I was like, yeah, I ran into that door. Like, oh, yeah, the one out in the lobby. And it's like, oh, okay. So it's not just me anymore. Like, other people. The ability to commiserate and find that community was. And everything. [00:10:38] Speaker B: Right. What role does USA Hockey play in supporting blind hockey programs? [00:10:49] Speaker A: USA Hockey is there to. The hope is that it will utilize these weekends that it has for trying hockey and getting on the ice to work with, you know, blind schools, blind organizations to get these people just. Even if it's a learn to skate, I just want people on the ice. You don't have to play hockey. You don't have. But just get out there, learn to skate, move around. Find a new group of people you may not have found. [00:11:18] Speaker B: Get some exercise. [00:11:19] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Which, you know, I do think is something that's a little bit lacking in our community of visually impaired people. I don't know if it's necessarily like, a fear of something, but definitely getting out there and exercising, you're never going to get a better exercise than skating around the ice for a couple laps. [00:11:42] Speaker B: Right. Drew, I just want to start out by. Some people have never seen a hockey puck. So you explained the adaptive hockey puck that it's. Did you say five inches, eight inches round? [00:11:58] Speaker A: Five inches. [00:11:58] Speaker B: Five inches and about three inches tall. [00:12:01] Speaker A: About two. Five by two. Yeah. [00:12:04] Speaker B: And it rattles. So how. What's a real one look like for all those who can't see or who has never seen one? [00:12:11] Speaker A: It's three inches by. I think about. I think it's an inch. So ours is roughly twice the size. [00:12:20] Speaker B: Of a standard puck and still, like, cylinder. Still round, just like the puck. Right. But it has the bearings in it that you can hear going across the ice. [00:12:31] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And there's a rubber made out of, like, vulcanized rubber. So it's very hard and fast. [00:12:38] Speaker B: Talk about coaching. What's that like for you to coach and what are some of the things you try to teach your players? [00:12:52] Speaker A: I think that the biggest key to coaching anyone with a visual impairment is first really learning what they can see. Especially in our sport. We do rely a lot on our hearing, but knowing where you can actually tell where the puck is or be able to help you track it is key. And I think it's, it's a conversation that's hard to have with a lot of people because it may mean that they have to either own up to right, maybe seeing more than they think they do, or maybe they see less than they're willing to fess up to. [00:13:30] Speaker B: Right. [00:13:32] Speaker A: And, and for our, so our goalies are all totally blind and for them it's figuring out, okay, I, I have to get in there and physically move your body so you know what this feels like to do this position. And so that's another thing that you don't necessarily do have to do with a sighted player because you can just show them that position yourself and then they mimic you. So it's, it's, it's the same and different. I, I know that sounds like a cliche term, but it's, it's really just knowing what they can and can't see, working within that visual field and helping them augment it. Like, I've got a guy that I play with who can only see about 10ft in front of him and maybe like a, I'd say maybe a 10 inch circle on the ground. So it's working with him to almost stop using what vision he has and start relying more on his ears to help track the puck. And whereas with someone that may have more vision, it's okay, well, how do you make sure that you're always moving your head so that you can tell where, what's going on and things like that. [00:14:48] Speaker B: So it's interesting because I think of people's vision variations. You know, you have high partials, medium partials, low partials, and totals. So it sounds like there's specific places that some people would play, but not others. Like you talked about totals being the goalies, is that because that that's the best place for them to be, that it might be more difficult for them to play another. [00:15:25] Speaker A: So I feel that when the programs are first starting that yes, it was set up that total blind would be in goal. Low partial would be defense, and then high partial would be offense. I think that was the initial intent behind how the, the teams are set up. Since then, we've had totals and low partials that play offense and are that excel at the position. So I think in the initial sort of planning for blind hockey there was maybe a little bit of doubt as far as the capabilities of our players. And since then we've had our total blinds and our low partial players excel and just blow us out of the water at their skill and tenacity on the ice. Because I will say they do have to try harder. I mean, it's just a fact of the game. The high partials can see more so they can do a little bit more. But again, I don't think that that necessarily gives them any kind of step up in the final competition. [00:16:42] Speaker B: And is all I can just picture is somebody smacking into me really hard. Are there any specialized equipment you said? Really? Are there any different rule changes? [00:16:59] Speaker A: So we. The only significant rule change is that when we cross into the offensive zone so we're into the point where our team can shoot. We have to complete one pass and then there's a pass whistle so that our goalies know that a shot could be coming in. So you won't get breakaways or, you know, a guy just skating by himself down the ice and. And scoring. He has to play within a team and they have to kind of communicate and work together to score. [00:17:28] Speaker B: So let's try this again because I'm not. I can't remember all the hockey things, but. So presumably that whoever has the puck would pass it once, is that right? [00:17:40] Speaker A: Yes. [00:17:41] Speaker B: And then there would be a whistle that would blow indicating that somebody's going to shoot that. [00:17:47] Speaker A: Yes. That a shot can be coming. So that. Yes, base. And usually in blind hockey, once you've made that first pass, a shot is pretty immediate. But that doesn't mean that's the case. It just is to let the goalies and the defenseman know that a shot may be coming in so they can better protect themselves and kind of angle themselves better towards the shooter. [00:18:12] Speaker B: And if one is interested in playing hockey like blind hockey, what is the process like? How do they go about getting involved and seeing if that's something they would be good at? [00:18:26] Speaker A: Reach out to the local programs. I mean, they would probably, if you reach out to USA Hockey, they would send you my way. And our local programs do everything from the ground up. So if you don't know how to skate, we'll teach you how to skate. If you know how to skate, you don't know how to play hockey. Will teach you how to play hockey. If you know how to play hockey and you just want to get back on the ice, there's a place for you. So our, our teams are pretty small, but because of that, we are one stop shop for getting people from start to finish. [00:18:59] Speaker B: So I hate using the term used to. I haven't done it in so long, but I. I was an ice skater, so I know how to do that. But I also know that there's walls and things you can run into. So how do you. What kind of barriers do you do? Like, do you do any tape or anything on the ice that might indicate you're getting close to an edge or anything like that? [00:19:27] Speaker A: No, we wear. We wear lots of equipment. That is our safety measure. [00:19:32] Speaker B: Gotcha. So somebody may actually slam into something or whatever, and that's just part of the. Part of the deal. [00:19:41] Speaker A: Yeah. And I mean, to be honest, I probably slammed into the boards accidentally more when I could see than I have done since I lost my vision. It's one of the strangest things, but I'll notice almost like a different pressure the closer I get to a board now that I must not have noticed when I was younger. [00:20:02] Speaker B: So what are some of the biggest challenges that you face now as a blind hockey player? [00:20:13] Speaker A: Relying on my hearing, because, again, I do have central vision, so I'm lucky that when I can lock onto something, I can stay pretty well locked on. But I think that for those of us with partial vision, that the, the urge to rely on what we can see can sometimes hinder us in our abilities to kind of take in the whole picture. [00:20:41] Speaker B: And then how do you communicate and work with your teammates on, you know, the ice? Is there any different communication that you do in regards to. That you might communicate to another team player? [00:20:59] Speaker A: No, it's. There's a lot of communication in hockey to begin with, whether you're in the sighted community or. Or the blind. I've. I've noticed that I tend to make the same. If I'm calling for a pass or I'm trying to get someone's attention, I'll make the same noise just so it's recognizable to my teammates. So if I make it on the ice, they're going to know that it's me, not someone else. But I think that would be the only thing that I've purposely changed in. [00:21:29] Speaker B: My communication is I don't know if this is. I know there's a number of Paralympic sports. Does blind hockey fall into that? [00:21:40] Speaker A: Not yet. We're working our way there. We have to have a world championship, and I believe it's six countries right now. We're at five. [00:21:50] Speaker B: You're so close. [00:21:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Hopefully by the time we're in Salt Lake for the Paralympics, we can have our exhibition game, which is what you need in order to be considered for a Paralympic sport. And, and hopefully we can make that jump then. [00:22:05] Speaker B: But tell me how many, assuming it. [00:22:07] Speaker A: Is in Salt Lake. I. I don't know if that's been confirmed. [00:22:09] Speaker B: So how many teams do you have in the US again? [00:22:14] Speaker A: About 12 right now. Active. Unfortunately for us, Covid hit us pretty hard. [00:22:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:22] Speaker A: And a lot of our programs weren't able to get back up and running, so we, we are a little bit smaller than before. But I want to say about 12 right now. [00:22:30] Speaker B: I think Covid hit a lot of people pretty hard. Yeah. And. And this station, although we are global and we stream online and, and are podcasted, we are based out of the Twin Cities in Minneapolis. So my understanding is we do have a Minnesota team. [00:22:50] Speaker A: Yeah, the Minnesota Wild blind hockey team is one of our biggest programs in the country. They play out of the super rink in Blaine, and they've got some, some really incredible people working to help grow that team and the sport in Minnesota. And I mean, you guys are the state of hockey, so it makes sense that you guys are thriving out there. [00:23:16] Speaker B: And how many people are on a hockey team when you come out? [00:23:22] Speaker A: So when we play in our tournaments, we'll have anywhere from 10 to 15 players per team, and then we have three divisions of play. So at max capacity, we're probably bringing 60, 70 players to a, to a tournament. [00:23:42] Speaker B: Talk to me a little bit about the growth of teams across the country. So if somebody is thinking of putting a team together, what has to happen? What do they need to do? [00:23:54] Speaker A: A lot. I think that one of the biggest hurdles for blind ice hockey is that it's ice hockey. And innately the renting of ice is expensive. So you. Finding those rinks or programs that are willing to partner and work with, with individual teams is, is huge in getting those programs off the ground. Like I said, Minnesota Wild blind hockey is very tight knit with the Minnesota Wild NHL team, which is huge to, to helping support them. [00:24:31] Speaker B: So. Kind of a partner. [00:24:33] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And, and it's. But it's also having that person there that's willing to carry that torch. You know, you. If there's. There's someone there that just likes to coach hockey and they want to do it because it's fun, that's great. You know, you do want those people, but if they're there to make sure that these blind players and Their, you know, their goal is that these blind players become the best version of themselves on and off the ice, and they want them to thrive. Then that's the person that you need in that position to continue a team and to help grow it. [00:25:09] Speaker B: And so I presume that there is a mandatory that you have to have a visual impairment to play in this. Yes. [00:25:16] Speaker A: Yeah. So at the international level, we go off of the IOC, the Paralympic scale of the bees. So we have B1 through B3, can play at the international level. And then anyone that's not legally blind but still visually impaired is allowed to play on our teams and play at our national tournaments. But they wouldn't be eligible for Paralympics, should we ever get there. [00:25:44] Speaker B: Ah, I got it. Okay. So those partnerships, those are really important. It sounds like, you know, to kind of get things going more. And I'm just curious, have you played against the people in Canada? [00:26:01] Speaker A: Yeah, fortunately and unfortunately, they. They kicked our butts. [00:26:06] Speaker B: I was gonna say. Are they brutal? [00:26:08] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, they're. They're very good. And you know, I. Beyond it being their national sport, they're also, you know, 40 years ahead of us as far as having blind hockey. [00:26:19] Speaker B: Right. [00:26:20] Speaker A: Care of sport in their country. So I think we're going to get there. In all honesty, this. This roster that we have this season that should be taking on Canada sometime in the spring, I. I feel like we've got a good chance to beat them. That being said, I've. I've said that the past three times. [00:26:42] Speaker B: Well, hey, it's okay to dream, right? [00:26:45] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:26:46] Speaker B: Dreams come true. [00:26:48] Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly. [00:26:50] Speaker B: Drew, my PR person needs some force lessons with some hockey lessons. She keeps hitting the microphone. I said you need some location lessons or something. Hockey must teach a lot of interesting spatial awareness. That's kind of what I was thinking that you'd almost really get to know or have a better. A good grip on that or not and learn by bouncing around a bit. [00:27:23] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I've. I've definitely seen it learned both ways, but yeah. And. And I think that that's just a. I want to say that's just a hockey thing too, because you have to know where your body's at because you're balancing on those two blades. And you know, then you add into the. The hearing kind of that you can notice things a little bit better auditorily tracking. So it's interesting how. How kind of in sync with your space you get. [00:27:59] Speaker B: Can you tell us an inspiring story or so on maybe a player that how hockey has impacted them? [00:28:12] Speaker A: I mean, there's There's a lot, and I think that that's. [00:28:17] Speaker B: Or tell us one about you. [00:28:19] Speaker A: Like, what about me? [00:28:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Like what. What. What was it like? Like, you must have had an interesting feeling of when you were actually in your first game to the feeling of now, you know, a more recent game you've played. I mean, I'm sure you've come a long ways and developed many things, but there must have been an interesting thing that's happened or event that's kind of been fun for you to talk about. [00:28:44] Speaker A: Yeah. I'm gonna call this my blind hockey story. Cause I think that this is the one I tell whenever anyone asks me. The first game that I blind hockey game I ever played in was at Tria arena, which is in St. Paul, Minneapolis, downtown. I was playing a showcase game wearing the national team jerseys, not actually on the team, but we were representing the usa. We were playing against former pros, one of which is Darby Hendrickson, who runs the Hendrickson foundation, based out of Minnesota. They do a lot of good stuff with the blind hockey community. [00:29:24] Speaker B: Okay. [00:29:26] Speaker A: So we're playing in this game, and it's going, going, and I. I'm very overwhelmed because it's my first time back in kind of, like, this game situation. And I get the puck and I pass it, and I'm skating towards the goal. And all of a sudden, I feel somebody, and then they're gone. And I'm like, I have no idea who I hit. I don't know what it is. And I look down, and it's Darby Hendrickson, the former Minnesota Wild player, who just looks stunned and a little angry. And I'm like, oh, man. He's like, what was that for? And the only thing I could think of to say is, I'm so sorry. I didn't see you. [00:30:07] Speaker B: Oh, boy. Yeah, that. Yeah, that was. [00:30:11] Speaker A: And that was it. And he got up, and I think he, like, it all clicked. He's like, okay, we're playing a blind guy. And what makes that so cool to me is that I found out years later that they still tell that story at family gatherings. Let's talk about the time that a blind guy took Darby out at a. At a hockey game. So it's cool. Feel like I'm kind of enshrined in history somehow. [00:30:36] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I'm just curious. Do you have. Do you have kids? [00:30:43] Speaker A: No. [00:30:43] Speaker B: Okay. I was going to ask them, but you must have players that have kids. And have you heard, like, anything that. What the kids think about, you know, players that are blind, playing Hockey or what's the response that you get from sighted kids in general? [00:31:03] Speaker A: I think it's amazement. And I think that's what we get a lot of the time when you actually get to witness a blind hockey game. You know, one of my good friends on the national team has a son that plays hockey because of his dad and his dad coaches him. And you can tell there's a lot kind of admiration and respect because, you know, he gets to do what his dad does and his dad plays for Team USA and now he's also his coach, and I think he's very proud of that fact. And then we get these kids that play on youth teams that practice before or after us, and at first they're a little unsure of what it is, and then they realize that these are guys that may not be able to see their hand in front of their face, you know, stick handling and shooting the puck and, and it's a general, general like gasp of amazement that we hear pretty, pretty consistently at the rink. So I, I think it's cool to do something that we all know we can do and people don't necessarily. Not that they don't think we could, but don't think that we would. [00:32:10] Speaker B: Oh, Klein. You know, there's a lot of people out there that don't think you could. [00:32:14] Speaker A: That's true. And I think there's a lot of people there that probably don't think that we should either, but that doesn't stop. [00:32:19] Speaker B: Us or it's just never crossed their mind that somebody would, like you said that somebody would play hockey that couldn't see what plans are in place for the future of blind hockey in the US. [00:32:35] Speaker A: We're a lot. There's a lot of things going. It's still a very grassroots effort. It's at the local level, trying to work with individual blind schools, schools, blind organizations to get players on the ice. Like I said, we have almost 300 players in the country right now, which is actually down from where it was in 2019, pre Covid. So it's kind of a. The struggle to get back to where we were so we can continue growing from there. But we've got training events, tournaments being planned, things like that. Actually this weekend in Ottawa during the World Junior tournament, which is the biggest under 18 tournament in the world, the BHL, the Blind Hockey League, will be participating in a three game series in conjunction with that event. So it's a very big stage to have our players on and some of the best blind hockey players in the world right now. [00:33:35] Speaker B: So I'm curious in general, what is the oldest, like, professional hockey player that you know of that is actively playing? And what are the age ranges in blind hockey? [00:33:51] Speaker A: So age ranges in blind hockey is anywhere from seven to. I think we have someone that was born in 51, so that would make them 70. Wow, I'm terrible. I am. [00:34:10] Speaker B: And they're still playing? [00:34:12] Speaker A: Still playing. I mean, not, not at like the high level, but, you know, still getting on the ice and, and enjoying the sport. And then as far as like a professional NHL player, I think the oldest one playing right now is 43. [00:34:28] Speaker B: Gotcha. Yeah. And how does USA Hockey kind of ensure inclusivity and representation in the sport of blind hockey? So I'm curious, like, is it. Does it really try to make sure it includes all races? Do women play too? How, how does that work? [00:34:58] Speaker A: Yeah, it includes everybody. We don't care. Race, creed, whatever it may be. Sex. My good friend Sitzka Morgan plays on the US national team with me. You know, we, we are all inclusive and USA Hockey is really making an effort to promote the sport across all of its channels. So through the NHL, through the World Juniors, through all these other options, opportunities that they have. And so it's, it's always going to be one of those that we can continue to push this program, these programs in front of organizations, but the organization has to be willing to kind of pick it up and walk with us on this path. [00:35:43] Speaker B: And so do. If you have a female player, are they playing on the same team as the males or they are there female teams and male teams? [00:35:52] Speaker A: We are co ed, but we also, at least in Canada right now, there is enough players that they host a women's division, but women, we. Everything else is co ed. [00:36:04] Speaker B: Excellent. So tell me what the most rewarding part of playing blind hockey is for you. [00:36:19] Speaker A: I don't necessarily think it's the playing anymore. I think it's the helping. It's working with the players that are learning and kind of showing them things that I've learned over the years. Being able to provide, you know, tournaments and events for, for the community as well has been something that I've really, as much as it's given me gray hairs and, and things like that, it's. It's one of the most gratifying thing to see your, your family get to play a sport that they love and be together. You know, when, when you made sure that that could happen. [00:36:59] Speaker B: You're still playing in games though, right? [00:37:02] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah. But I, I'm. I am old and curmudgeony. Now. So I enjoy the, the slower times when I. I still enjoy playing. It's. It. It is definitely still a thrill. I don't. I think if I didn't enjoy it, I would have stopped by this point with how many kind of injuries have built up over the years. But the, the big enjoyment is I. I know that I'm getting towards the end of my playing time, so I want to make sure that the next generation of players is. Is good to go and, and is able to continue passing it on. [00:37:36] Speaker B: When you prepare for a game, what do you do both mentally and physically? [00:37:41] Speaker A: I am the most superstitious person. [00:37:43] Speaker B: Let's hear it. [00:37:44] Speaker A: All of blind hockey. You can ask anybody. [00:37:46] Speaker B: Let's hear it. [00:37:50] Speaker A: An hour before I see. Two hours before I usually take a nap. An hour before I drink a liter of water and 20 ounces of like, electrolyte drink. A half hour before I usually try and get some kind of caffeine, like a chai latte. And then getting dressed is. Is almost a ritual. I had to get dressed from left to right. I put my skates on first and then everything else. It's. It's great. I like to take my stick before every game and every practice, too. It's a lot. I'm. I'm sure I'm missing something too, but it's to the point that my teammates will actively try and screw me up to see what will happen if I miss something. [00:38:43] Speaker B: Oh, nice. And so I'm sure you've made lifetime friends. Do people sign each other sticks? [00:38:53] Speaker A: No, we don't really do that. We sign a lot of pucks, but usually those end up getting donated away. I don't know that we really trade. [00:39:05] Speaker B: A lot between each other about blind hockey. Andrew, I'm curious. If somebody's just contemplating on trying blind hockey, what advice would you have for them? [00:39:22] Speaker A: Just do it. [00:39:23] Speaker B: Just do it. I think that's a Nike slogan. [00:39:26] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, but that is the thing, you know, I think the more you think about something that might scare you, the more it's gonna scare you. And if it's something that interests you, then the worst thing that's going to happen is you're going to fall on your butt. And the best thing that's going to happen is you're going to find something that you love. [00:39:44] Speaker B: Yeah, that's very true. That's probably true for everything. That's right. [00:39:49] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:39:49] Speaker B: And everything in life. Right. It's okay to fall on your face as long as you learn something. [00:39:55] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:39:57] Speaker B: I'd like to talk a little bit. You have a 501C3, a dented pot dent puck program. Tell us a little bit about that and how that came to fruition. [00:40:09] Speaker A: So Covid actually was kind of the driving force for the dented puck. We had had a bunch of tournaments and programs canceled because of the epidemic. And I think it had ended up being two years since we'd all gotten together. And so we did a tournament here in Chicago that sort of snowballed into a 501C3, because we realized that providing opportunities to play to the blind community at low to no cost was something that we knew was needed and wasn't necessarily happening elsewhere. So with that in mind, our. Our mission is we call it community through competition. So we put on tournaments a couple times a year. We do training events. We have a traveling team that goes to different charity tournaments and plays to help grow the visibility of blind hockey within the greater hockey community. And then we also travel to the different blind conventions during the summer. So last year we were in Orlando at the NFB convention, trying to just grow the visibility and awareness for the sport. [00:41:29] Speaker B: And so do you go to different, like, camps and things like that, or how does this work when you're trying to teach or give people experience? [00:41:38] Speaker A: With this, we. We just put the. The tournaments on. So, like, this July, we'll be in Chicago again for our blind hockey showdown. And that's just a tournament that we put on at the Blackhawks practice facility. We do work with the Blackhawks as far as it's their building, so we have contracts and talks with them. But really our goal is just to say if. If you are a blind hockey player and you want to play and you can get here, then you can get on the ice, and we're not going to charge you. This ice is. Is free for you to get on and play games and grow your skills. As far as our traveling team, we go to events like one, called Dog bowl in Colorado. That is an organization that gives back to hockey families in need. And so they were a big supporter of our first tournament. And we go there and play in their charity tournament against sighted teams. And just to show them that, one, we can play the sport and two, to get us in front of the larger community. [00:42:51] Speaker B: You know, I have a lot of respect for anybody who does a 501C3. I have one, and I understand the work it takes to do it, and that it is work. One of the things that I know and see people, and I think everyone struggles with a certain amount of it is getting volunteers. Like, it's. I don't know. I think that sometimes you. I mean, that volunteer has to be willing to give of their time. And what is your. Do you feel your magic is for getting volunteers? Like, how do you feel? You try to get people excited about it. [00:43:31] Speaker A: Ours, we're pretty lucky, fortunately, that within our community, the bulk of them have friends and family that are eager and willing to volunteer. It's. We're not usually scraping by with, you know, oh, we need someone for this. It's usually, what can I do to help? And. And then trying to find a place to put them in, which, you know, thank God for the families and friends of our players because a lot of this stuff would not happen without them. And. And they really make up the core of our. Our volunteers at every event. [00:44:06] Speaker B: And so what do you tell somebody who's thinking of wanting to coach? Like, how does somebody actually learn to coach hockey, especially, like, blind hockey? [00:44:19] Speaker A: I think like we talked about earlier, there's not really a lot of difference in coaching blind hockey as opposed to coaching standard hockey. It is just teaching them that saying, hey, I need you all to go over there doesn't really work for our players because they may not know what. [00:44:38] Speaker B: Does over there mean. I always ask my sighted people, like, stop saying that. [00:44:44] Speaker A: And. And so it's getting them used to the verbiage of, like, everyone to the right of my voice against the boards, or, you know, having someone guide the team over to where they need to be. It's just little things like that that we have to get our coaches kind of in tune with, and we've got coaches that have been with us for a long time that still say, I need you guys over there. So I also think it's just kind of ingrained in people, too. [00:45:10] Speaker B: Yep, it certainly is. What is your wish for blind hockey in the future? [00:45:16] Speaker A: Personally, I would like to see it become a Paralympic sport. I know there's a lot of people that have put a lot of time, effort and energy into growing the community and growing the sport, both here and in Canada and in Europe. They're all over the place. And I think it would be a big win for. For inclusivity of sport to. To have blind hockey included, because it's. It's just as exciting, if not more so, than sled hockey. And, And. And that is a biased opinion, but I'm gonna throw that gauntlet down now. [00:45:52] Speaker B: So I'm curious how. How often is a Paralympics, you know, does a sport come into the Paralympics, like, how Common is that I don't. [00:46:02] Speaker A: Think it's very common in all honesty. I, and I know that I think the Olympics has, I saw the stat recently. It was like 40 something sports included in the Winter Olympics and It's only like 22 included in the Paralympics. [00:46:18] Speaker B: Wow. [00:46:18] Speaker A: So. But I mean it does make sense and we are getting to the point that adaptation and accessibility of technology is a lot more easy to get to. And so I expect a lot of parasports to kind of explode and find new avenues to grow and advance and become bigger and hopefully get to that point as well. [00:46:43] Speaker B: I'm just curious, where do you think. And this would have to be a carefully. But where does. Do you think like smart glasses figure into adapting sports? Do you, have you thought about that? [00:47:01] Speaker A: I think that I think it's tough, you know, smart glasses for someone like me that does have some usable central vision might be a game changer as far as safety wise. You know, having markers that indicate that someone is on your left or right could, could increase a safety dynamic of the sport. At the same time, I've got friends that wouldn't be able to see the glasses or any kind of information transmitted through them. So at that point, are we giving an unfair advantage to the players that can use this technology over the players. [00:47:42] Speaker B: That can't unless they had a voice. Right. [00:47:48] Speaker A: Yeah. And, and we do have or we had a player that played sighted hockey and her dad had microphones in her helmet to let her know where the play was at on the ice. [00:48:00] Speaker B: Oh, that's cool. [00:48:02] Speaker A: Yeah. So I mean, I think that there are, are ways. We've also discussed putting maybe like vibration pads into helmet. So if someone's coming up on your right, then maybe it like vibrates a little bit on the right side of your helmet or, or something. You know, it's, it's always. I think that our ideas are still outpacing the speed at which we're making advancements. And so you know, we get these big, big ideas and just can't get to them yet. [00:48:31] Speaker B: I want to pull you back to that whole concept because I've done little bits of some of that where you are participating with a bunch of sighted people, but you might sneak in or not sneak, but I mean have something that would give you some kind of a little more fair playing ground. So talk about that player that had the microphones in her helmet. [00:48:55] Speaker A: She, I mean it wasn't for her. It wasn't as much. [00:49:00] Speaker B: Could she see it all in the. [00:49:02] Speaker A: She can. She. She is, she's I believe she's listed as a B3. So. High. [00:49:07] Speaker B: High. [00:49:07] Speaker A: Partial. [00:49:08] Speaker B: Okay. [00:49:10] Speaker A: So. But hers was more because she was playing sighted hockey with the regular sized puck and everything like that. And, and I do think that it allowed her to at least compete and, and stay with the girls. When we play in charity games, you can definitely tell when we're playing with our puck as opposed to when we're playing with the standard puck. Because I, I've got friends that, that with a blind puck, they're solid players. You know, they're people that I'd rely on in, in any situation. And. [00:49:40] Speaker B: Right. [00:49:41] Speaker A: You get to the point they're using the regular puck and they just, they don't know. And that's no fault of them. It's just. [00:49:46] Speaker B: Right. It's a quiet, fast, small puck and. [00:49:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:49:51] Speaker B: They may not even hear it. [00:49:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:49:53] Speaker B: Coming up on. Yeah, I get it. You know that that quote accessibility that was put there for that purpose is taken away. But there's some thought, right. Of what happens when you place speakers or little speakers in the, in the helmet or something and you have somebody who's a watcher and giving you info on the side. Could you. How, how, how? Well, maybe could you adapt to playing on a playing ground with people who are sighted? [00:50:32] Speaker A: I think it's, it's definitely an easier goal to obtain. We've. We've tried putting sounding devices within a standard sized puck to kind of help make it more accessible when we're playing in these charity events. I think it really just depends on. Also on the. For lack of a Bertram. The connection between the person giving direction and the person receiving direction. Because in hockey, we, we all like to take in information in a specific way. And so, you know, if you can have that connection with someone so that you can just let them know. Because it's a lot of split second things. [00:51:16] Speaker B: Right. [00:51:16] Speaker A: So someone's coming to your left, then they cut, then it's just knowing how to talk to each other is a. [00:51:22] Speaker B: Big, quick little command. Things or something. [00:51:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:27] Speaker B: Which I presume you would get used to doing if you worked with each other enough. [00:51:31] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [00:51:33] Speaker B: Well, we have to wrap it up, but I just wanted to very much thank you for your time. I really appreciate that. Drew, any other advice or things you'd like to leave us with? Anything. [00:51:46] Speaker A: Coming up. Thank you for having me and, and Jeff or any blind or visually impaired individuals out there that just want to learn how to skate or interested in hockey or hockey fans. I mean, we've got a spot for you and and nothing is out of reach as long as you're willing to put in the effort. [00:52:03] Speaker B: What's your website? [00:52:05] Speaker A: We're@thedented puck.com and that's where they can. [00:52:09] Speaker B: Reach out for learning hockey and stuff. The Dentist puck.com Thank you, Drew. I really appreciate the time. [00:52:17] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:52:21] Speaker B: You've been listening to Disability and Progress. The views expressed on the show are not necessarily those of the KFAI or its board of directors. My name is Sam. I'm the host of this show. Charlene Dahl is my PR research person. Erin is my podcaster. And we've been speaking with Drew Garza about playing hockey, blind hockey for that matter. And the dentedpuck.com is where you'll go if you want to know more. This is KFAI 90.3 FM Minneapolis and KFAI.org and if you want to be on my email list, you can email me at disability and progressamjasmin.com Please, everybody stay safe for the end of the year. And if you celebrate it, happy holidays to you all. Good night.