Speaker 2 00:00:59 And greetings and thank you for joining. <laugh> catches me every time. Thank you for joining Disability and Progress, where we bring you insights into ideas about, and discussions on disability topics. My name is Sam. I'm the host of this show, and if you wanna be part of our email list in our listener club, you may email me at Disability and
[email protected]. Charlene Doll is my research woman. Good evening, Charlene.
Speaker 3 00:01:28 Good evening everyone.
Speaker 2 00:01:30 What do you got for me?
Speaker 3 00:01:32 I, I got this. Hello. And thank you for joining Disability and Progress, K F A I, listener's Club. We appreciate your feedback, your ideas, and your listenership. This week we would like to hel say hello to Tomo Lennox Plymouth, Minnesota. Annie Gito new, oh,
Speaker 2 00:02:18 Uh, she's from New York,
Speaker 3 00:02:20 Huh?
Speaker 2 00:02:21 She's from New York,
Speaker 3 00:02:21 New York. Uh, and Fringe in the, uh, art in Amer er, uh, American Council for the Blind. Thank you for, uh, joining us. If you want to be a part of our listener club, send a email to disability and PR progress at jazz <laugh> sam jasmine.com, and you will look forward to hearing your name in the coming week.
Speaker 2 00:03:00 Excellent. Thank you indeed. And this week we also have Admiral Kyle Coed, and he will be discussing his book. His book is, um, entitled, relentless Positively Positivity. Boy, the Tongue Twisters are Going on. Hi, Kyle.
Speaker 4 00:03:17 Sam, thanks for having me tonight. I'm, it's a pleasure to be here,
Speaker 2 00:03:20 Kyle, thank you so much for joining me. Um, I want I what a fascinating book. You were so straightforward in this book. It was, it will be interesting to, um, speak with you on this, but can you start out by, um, just kind of giving us a little bit of history about you and, and telling us your story?
Speaker 4 00:03:41 Absolutely. I'd love to. Um, so, so my story is, is, is a bit unique and it's a bit unusual. Um, I was a, a career naval officer. I was a Navy pilot for 35 years. I retired, uh, in the summer of 2020. Uh, and during my career, you know, I spent tons of time, uh, in an airplane. I flew the P three Orion, which is a, a large land base, as a matter of fact. Uh, we used to fly them outta Glenville, uh, there in Chicago, um, Glenview Air Airport. Uh, spent 35 years doing that. Um, and throughout my career, was able to travel all around the world, spent a lot of time teaching and instructing, uh, from, uh, you know, anywhere from training bases in the United States, uh, to three years in Canada, where I was an exchange instructor, uh, with the Canadian Air Force. Um, went on to, uh, to command at various levels. So I was a, a squadron commander, a wing commander, a group commander. Uh, I was, uh, honored to serve, uh, within the Obama administration, uh, as the senior director of the White House situation room, uh, for, uh, a two year tour there. Um, I spent time in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Uh, and so, uh, in my, in my military career, I had lots of opportunity to travel around the world and do some,
Speaker 2 00:04:55 And then, um, then your event happened. Tell us a little about that.
Speaker 4 00:05:00 It did. So, you know, I, I've, I've heard this adage, you know, forever that a single moment, uh, can change your life forever. And certainly me, that happened shortly after I arrived here at Pensacola, Florida. So, um, at the time it was my, uh, uh, my last assignment, uh, I had been, uh, brought in to be the commander of Naval Education and Training Command here in Pensacola. Uh, and so I was responsibility for, uh, responsible for all of Navy recruiting, um, for, uh, bootcamp up in Great Lakes, Illinois, uh, for all of our, uh, R O T C programs mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, and finally all our technical training, uh, for each one of our, uh, our young enlisted folks that come in the Navy and our officers, uh, that go through, uh, the various pipelines. Well, after I'd been here about, uh, um, you know, five months, uh, and to be precise, the exact date was March 16th, 2018. Had a, an accident in my house. Um, and, and, you know, the results were pretty catastrophic. I, I like to tell people that I wish it was, you know, something that, you know, sounded really adventurous, that I was <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:06:04 Sky
Speaker 4 00:06:05 Climbing Everest, but it was really a slip and fall accident. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> in a historic really, uh, narrow steps, a very steep steps. And, uh, I'm a pretty tall guy, so six, four and a half. Ah, uh, and I was going upstairs. I was probably on the second or third step. Um, I, I really don't have recollection of it, but I think I lost my balance. I tumbled over the steps, landed on my back, and a result, um, shattered two of my vertebrae. So, uh, I'm a spinal cord injury victim, uh, with some significant, uh, incomplete damage to my spinal cord. But, you know, that rendered me, uh, uh, basically a paraplegic with no feeling below the waist.
Speaker 2 00:06:43 So, when you were in the hospital and you got your initial diagnosis, what was your first thoughts?
Speaker 4 00:06:50 You know, it's, it's, it's funny, and, and you know, the title of the book is Relentless Positivity. Hmm. I, I have a positive person, but, you know, that was, as you can imagine, up to that point, I'd, you know, served in the Navy for 32 years. Right. I was strong fit, I was athletic, spent time outdoors. And, you know, as, as I came out of, uh, surgery and I became to become more lucid, you know, the doctor, my wife came into the room and, you know, he delivered the news that, uh, uh, I would not only, um, never recover from this, uh, he told me I'd never stand again. I'd never get out of a wheelchair. And so, you know, that was a real kick in the gut. And my, my immediate thoughts for my family. How am I gonna support my family? Uh, I'm gonna have to retire from the Navy that I loved.
Speaker 4 00:07:33 I'm gonna have to get a, a one story home. I'm gonna have to get a minivan with a wheelchair accessible, you know, and, and so my mind just raced and, you know, I didn't know, you know, what my retirement benefits were gonna be or how I was gonna do that. Um, but, you know, that lasted probably two days. And, you know, I came to the realization that, um, you know, I, I've got a decision to make. I can, I can lay in bed, I can feel sorry for myself. And, you know, I've, I've heard of people, you know, asking the why me question, woe is me, or, you know, I can, I can try to, you know, find purpose, if you will, in, in my accident. And, you know, create a positive out of a, a pretty significant negative in my life. And that's what I chose to do.
Speaker 2 00:08:14 Why don't you talk a little bit about some of the road to your recovery, cuz you had significant amounts of physical therapy and et cetera. What are some of the things that you had to adjust to while you were doing some of this?
Speaker 4 00:08:33 Yeah, so, so the first thing, I mean, I can remember being in physical therapy. So I spent about a week and a half in the icu. Then they transferred me to a local, uh, therapy, uh, hospital West Florida, here in Pensacola, Florida. And, you know, I, I lived in the hospital for the next seven weeks. Mm. And I would have, um, probably, you know, four to five one hour sessions of therapy, occupational therapy and physical therapy each day. So the, the first thing I had to get used to was, you know, immediately after the surgery, I couldn't even roll over and bed by myself. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, I, I had to adapt. Uh, again, I was a strong independent guy. I, I had to rely on other people to help me and, and to help me do things. Uh, and, and that was really difficult at first.
Speaker 4 00:09:17 Um, and then, you know, just getting into the physical therapy routine, and I'll, I'll tell you, one of my, my light she moments was, uh, uh, there's a, a large, um, contraption, I'll call it, uh, that we used in physical therapy. It was called an arjo. It's a large device that, uh, you know, I'd, I'd come into my wheelchair and they'd put chest straps and waist straps. Uh, and, and basically it would, it would lift me up like a crane. Ah-huh. <affirmative>, uh, remember the very first time that it pulled me out of the chair? And, you know, mind you, I, I didn't do anything to physically accomplish that. I was just along for the ride. But, you know, I had gone from the chair to standing position and, and I remembered what the doctor had told me. He said, you're never gonna stand again. And so that was my, you know, the doctor doesn't know anything.
Speaker 4 00:10:03 I'm gonna be in charge of as much of my destiny as I can be. Uh, right. And, you know, I told my wife that night, and, and it sounds crazy, but, you know, here I am a, a brand new paraplegic, uh, you know, I'm trying to understand the disability versus new abilities. And that's how I like to think of myself now. Uh, but I'm trying to put myself in that perspective. And I told her, I said, you know what? I stood up today and, and I think I can get more out of, you know, my physical therapy. I can push myself. Uh, and I said, one of my goals is I wanna return to my Navy job, and I wanna be on active duty, and I wanna lead again. And, uh, you know, she, she thought I was on painkillers and <laugh>, you know, I was just tired, sweetie. That's a great idea. Um, but didn't you hear what the doctor told you last week? But that became, you know, one of my motivations, you know, to push me to work hard each and every day.
Speaker 2 00:10:53 Obviously this was quite a life changing event. And anytime you have something like this, you go through a lot of stuff. I'm sure there was a lot of questions you asked yourself. And even you sound like you are one of these fierce, independent guys that just doesn't really take no, you can't do this for an answer. And, um, if I hadn't read your book and was just listening to you, this is what you sound like, um, but I'm sure there was some tough times going through and not always getting things how you wanted for a while. How did you, what are some of the ways that you dealt with that?
Speaker 4 00:11:38 So, so, you know, an interesting story along those lines. I can remember being in I C U and I'm, um, I am, you know, fiercely independent <laugh>, I'm stubborn, you know, by, I mean, that's, I think that's the type A personality that most naval aviators and pilots, you know, learn. They've, they've gotta have that thick skin, uh, to be able to kind of do what we do. Uh, but I can remember, uh, as my nurse came into the I C U and, you know, I had this stack of pills in medicine, and, you know, I asked her, I said, okay, so what is this for? What is that for? And, you know, there were anti blood coagulants. There were pain killers, there were other things. But she also said, and this is an antidepressant. And, and that struck is funny. I said, why do, why do I need that?
Speaker 4 00:12:18 I <laugh>, you know, I feel like depressed. And she said, well, after a, an injury as significant as years, a lot of people, you know, will, will have thoughts of self-harm. They'll have, you know, pretty, they'll go to pretty dark places. And, you know, that, that was an instantaneous moment when I said, Hey, I'm, I'm never gonna go there. I'm thankful to be alive. I've got a great family. Uh, and, and I leaned on a couple things. Number one, you know, my faith in God, uh, you know, really played heavily into encouraging me to continue. But also, um, I've got three adult children. I've got a grandson. Uh, and they all visited me in the hospital, uh, during those initial days. Uh, and I just didn't wanna let them down. So, you know, I would have those bad days. But, um, I was very fortunate. My wife, Amy, uh, who I talk about a lot in the book mm-hmm. <affirmative>,
Speaker 4 00:13:03 She actually had a role in putting some of our, our Caring Bridge entries in there. Um, she attended every physical therapy session, every occupational therapy session. And so, you know, she was my cheerleader. She was my nurse. Um, she could kick me in the tail if I, you know, she didn't think I was trying hard enough. Um, she would encourage me when, you know, I had had a tough day and, you know, I didn't accomplish everything I wanted to in physical therapy. Uh, and so, you know, she plays the lions chair of, you know, making sure that, you know, I, I did push myself, but also, you know, on those bad days when, you know, I was frustrated or, you know, I just, I, I had lost, uh, my perspective. You know, she'd kind of write my ship for me. So I, I owe her a debt of gratitude. She's always been my north star.
Speaker 2 00:13:48 I wonder, you know, um, I, and, and I think this happens a lot, um, whenever there's some significant event or change or injury or something that one partner has to be significantly dependent on another, that can really take a toll on your relationship and your marriage. Can you talk a little bit about how you protected that? How you kept that boundary?
Speaker 4 00:14:16 Yeah, and, and that's a great question. You know, one of the things, Sam, that, you know, neither of us anticipated, we really didn't understand it, is, you know, I use the term caregiver. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, when, when I came home from the hospital, you know, we were so excited to get out outta the hospital, go back to our house, but I, I couldn't even get into the, the historic house. We lived in <laugh>, uh, because it wasn't accessible. So, you know, I stayed in a, uh, an outdoor guest, uh, room. I had a hospital bed in there, a tv, a computer, uh, a a full accessible bathroom that I could use. But it was, it was probably two months, months before I got back into my house. And so, you know, we, we quickly learned how invested and how important that caregiver is. And, uh, you know, my wife Amy, I wish, wish she could meet her, but she is, is the most unselfish person you'll ever meet.
Speaker 4 00:15:05 And so, uh, you know, little things like, um, you know, I'd, I'd sleep out there by myself all the time, but she'd, she'd come out on the weekends and she hated it cuz it was just this, you know, quiet little single bachelor pad <laugh>, um, but hot. And she'd sleep out there with me. And, and so we, we just always found time to spend together. And I mean, you know, when I was on at home, I continued to do physical therapy. So, you know, as I got stronger and more independent, um, you know, she would take me to physical therapy every day. Uh, and I got to a point where I, I actually became strong enough to go to work. Uh, and, you know, that dream of, uh, I want to go back there and lead. I wanna show people that, uh, you know, an injury or a physical disability is not gonna stop me from doing what I love to do.
Speaker 4 00:15:52 Because, you know, I, I knew in my heart that, you know, the Navy didn't necessarily, uh, retain me. And that was a very unusual circumstance, being as senior as I was. So at the time, I was a, a two-star admiral. Um, they, they didn't want me for my mobility. They wanted me for what I had in my heart and what I had in my mind and what I was able to do and, and, and portray for others. And so, you know, Amy was a real important part of that journey. And we, we just, we almost grew closer together, uh, because of the injury, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 00:16:23 You know, I think something like this, it will either break you or make you, you know, it either draws you together or breaks you apart.
Speaker 4 00:16:32 I, I think you're absolutely right. And, you know, we, uh, um, I did a book signing this weekend, uh, and, you know, it was the most humbling moment I've had in, in many, many years when three of my physical therapists showed up and, you know, we signed books. And, uh, you know, I, I regret the fact that I wasn't smart enough to say, let's get a picture together. Uh, but we, my primary therapist, um, is a just a phenomenal lady that, you know, I learned how to deal with the injury and, and, and she was almost, you know, part psychologist because she talked a lot about the relationship and how, you know, sometimes it would, it would be unbearable for the caregiver, and it was too much. And, you know, they just weren't invested. But, you know, one of the things that we would do is, you know, we would watch other people in therapy and, um, you know, we were there as a couple and, you know, there were a few others, you know, where the spouse or the caregiver would come in, whether that was a mother and a father or a, a wife, uh, or a husband.
Speaker 4 00:17:26 But then there are others going through therapy that were there by themselves. Uh, and I think, you know, one of the things that really empowered me was the, the fact that, you know, I had a network, I had a, a partner in this that I could lean on, that I could talk to, um, because I, I can't imagine not going through something like this where you didn't have some sort of support network that was, you know, available to talk, to, listen to, you know, kick you in the tail if you needed that
Speaker 2 00:17:52 <laugh>. I, I feel like, you know, when you get into a situation like you had been in oftentimes, especially in the military, that they may suggest that you retire. Um, and you did not do that at that time. How, I wonder if you could talk about how you kept your job.
Speaker 4 00:18:20 So, so that's a great question because, you know, you had asked me what were the initial things that went through my mind and the immediate one. Um, you used a very kind term that the Navy would suggest I retire <laugh>. Uh, it's a little
Speaker 2 00:18:31 More, yes. I, I was trying to be nice
Speaker 4 00:18:34 <laugh>. I, I was, I was, you know, I, I joked that, you know, I was a unicorn because, uh, number one, you know, I, I had great support in senior Navy leaders, so three and four star admirals. Uh, and you know, I, I had talked to my boss and, you know, he kind of, he kinda laid it out in front of me. He said, you can do this as long as you want. Uh, or we understand if it's time to retire. And, you know, I, I took that as, Hey, I've got a lot more to give and I can do this. Um, you know, let me work myself in. And so I had a tremendous, uh, group of coworkers, uh, that really picked up the slack when I couldn't be there. Uh, but I started off and, you know, I'd go into work, uh, you know, I did some remote work.
Speaker 4 00:19:15 I'd answer a phone call every now and then, or an email, but, you know, it was just super fatiguing for me. So, you know, as I got stronger and stronger and, you know, we, we called it, uh, counting steps at physical therapy because Hmm. You know, it wasn't long before, you know, I could get outta my wheelchair and I could stand on a walker independently. Uh, and then it was, you know, relearning the mechanics. So think of a two year old trying to teach them how to walk. Uh, and I have no balance because the, uh, because of the accident, every, you know, the muscles that I lost, um, I, I can stand up for, uh, three or four seconds, but, you know, I typically will tottle back onto the bed when I'm getting dressed in the morning. But we would, we would count steps.
Speaker 4 00:19:53 And at first it started off with one very mechanical step, boom, then a second mechanical step. And, you know, by the end of the week, I was, I was going 10 steps before I had to sit down, and then it, 10 steps turned into 15, turned in 150, and then I was walking all around the campus, very fatiguing, but still, you know, it was that reaffirmation that, Hey, I can do this. I can do more than the doc told me. And so, you know, that led, it led into, uh, you know, one morning where I would go into, into the office and I'd work, um, very, very fatiguing again, just sitting up w was tiring for me. Uh, and that led into three mornings a week, led into five mornings a week, and I was still able to go to physical therapy, uh, three or four times a week.
Speaker 4 00:20:37 And, you know, before you knew it, you know, I was really back at full duty, uh, balancing that with a trip to the hospital, you know, three or four times a week for some physical therapy. And then, uh, the next thing you know, I was doing a little research on, Hey, how do, how am I gonna fly? How am I gonna get on an air and go from here to there? And, uh, so, you know, that, that became an inspiration of mine. And, um, you know, the Navy realized, uh, that, uh, again, it wasn't about my mobility. It, it was what I had in my mind to be able to, you know, lead people, inspire people, uh, and what I had in my heart to be able to, you know, work hard and really continue to make a difference.
Speaker 2 00:21:13 But I would think your situation isn't usual.
Speaker 4 00:21:18 It, it's not. And, and I would say, uh, that, uh, um, I would say it's unprecedented, actually. Um, but there have been, you know, folks, uh, there are, uh, several examples, uh, in the various services of amputees who have lost limbs, uh, on the battlefield. Um, I think I'm the first wheelchair bound individual, at least I haven't heard, uh, of, of any others. I, I received a Department of defense, um, disability, uh, leader award, uh, the year I retired. And, you know, the, the staff that I talked to said that, you know, they, they could find no other record of anybody that actively served on active duty, uh, as, as a senior leader or a junior leader in a wheelchair.
Speaker 2 00:21:59 Do you feel like this has laid a path for maybe others to follow?
Speaker 4 00:22:05 I, I hope so. And, and, and again, to put things in perspective, you know, I was a, at a point in my career where, you know, I, I didn't have to go on an aircraft carrier. I didn't have, you know, my, my roles and responsibilities were very different than, you know, say they would've been when I was a, a young pilot, you know, in a, in a squadron. Uh, and so I, I think that certainly, um, tempered the decision to let me continue. Uh, there are some situations where, you know, it's, it's just not possible for you to do your job, uh, if you're in a wheelchair, if you're, you know, depending on what your illness or, uh, injury is. But I, I just happened to be in that right place at the right time where I could continue to do, uh, the things that I love doing.
Speaker 2 00:22:46 You were once a, a navy senior leader in the White House situation room, um, during the Osama Bin Laden situation. Would you talk a little bit about that?
Speaker 4 00:22:59 Yeah. So, so at the time, I was the Navy captain, uh, and, uh, you know, I was up for an assignment and, uh, my assignments officer said, Hey, we, we need you to go to a White House for, uh, an interview. Um, and they said it was, so I started off as the director of operations, uh, within the situation room. And so I went through an interview series. I I was selected for the job. And, you know, I spent the next two years, uh, working in the west wing of the White House, uh, wore a suit to work every day. Um, and it was completely, uh, an apolitical position. So we weren't, uh, political appointees. We weren't affiliated with, you know, Republican democrat parties. We just had a mission to do. Uh, and, and it, it was fascinating. I got to see a lot of things. Um, I got to support a lot of things. And, you know, as you mentioned, the most fascinating thing thing was just being involved with the whole, uh, all the events, the planning, uh, the intelligence that was provided leading up to the Bin Laden mission. And, uh, you know, I, I still look back on that and say, how did, uh, you know, some old P three guy end up in the White
Speaker 2 00:24:00 House, <laugh>
Speaker 4 00:24:01 One of the most famous nights in history.
Speaker 2 00:24:05 I, I wanna step back to when you were talking about how, you know, how involved your family, and certainly Amy, your wife, was involved in your recovering and the care you got directly after the accident. And, and you did, you mentioned this a lot in the book, but you do also cover where you saw people who just did not have the support. I wonder if you, um, first of all, I, I, I suspect you, you realize your, your, well, do you think your recovery would've been very different if you had not had that support, number one, and number two, what would you tell some of those people who, you know, what, what else would you tell them that they could use for a tool to help them if they don't have the type of of support you do?
Speaker 4 00:24:59 Yeah, a, another great question. And so I would say, you know, I, I think my recovery would've been much more difficult if I didn't have some sort of a support network. In my case, it was my wife, you know, uh, shortly after I got outta the hospital, probably seven months, I became involved in, uh, uh, adaptive sports and, you know, became a member of the Navy Wounded Warrior team. Uh, and so, you know, I, I, I had a new family, a new network of folks who, you know, really other folks who were wheelchair bound, uh, other, uh, you know, we had amputees, folks who had, had serious injuries or illnesses. And so, you know, my, my advice to anyone, you know, going through something like this is you can't be afraid to ask for help. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, and creating a network, you need to look for a network.
Speaker 4 00:25:44 Um, because, you know, sometimes you just need to complain about how hard your day was, right. And then turn around and be encouraged. And, and for me, it certainly was family. Um, but it was also this new family that I had gained through adaptive sports. And, you know, quite frankly, that was one of one of the reasons that led me to write this book. Because, you know, I had gotten to a point where, uh, um, you know, I, I would, I would readily volunteer, uh, through the Navy Wounded Warrior office, um, to, you know, to sit down and tell my story to other folks who had had spinal cord injuries or other folks who had, you know, just recently gone through some traumatic medical injury. Uh, and, you know, I, I, I had this network of, you know, probably 15 or 20 people and, you know, it was good for me.
Speaker 4 00:26:29 Um, but I, I think it was good for them as well. And, you know, I got to a point where I said, I can only do so much one-on-one individually. And so hopefully a book like this, you know, it, it's not a 1, 2, 3 cookbook of how do you learn how to walk, walk again, or how do you learn how to do some of these things, because I'm not there yet. Um, but, but I think, and, and my goal is, you know, it provides a perspective, maybe an inspiration or some motivation, you know, for folks to, to seek out a network, to seek out, you know, those folks who are gonna be there. You know, the army calls 'em battle buddies, uh, we call 'em in the Navy, our wingman, somebody who can be there with you when you need to make a phone call.
Speaker 2 00:27:08 One of your chapters in the book is called Good Enough is Never Good Enough. I wondered if you would expand on that and talk about that.
Speaker 4 00:27:17 Yeah. So, and, and you know, really, you know, my approach and I talked about counting steps. You know, I wa I always want to do more. I always want to be physically better. I always want to, to be able to be in a position where I can give back to my community, I can give back to others. Uh, and, you know, the, the, the day where, you know, we sit back and say, I'm as good as I'm ever gonna get, or I'm never gonna get any better, um, you know, we've almost accepted defeat. Uh, and so, you know, I, I always encourage people to, you know, look for a way to take that next step or, or set a goal for yourself. I've been very goal oriented. And I'll, I'll tell you one of, one of the most daunting goals, uh, that, uh, was thrust upon me.
Speaker 4 00:27:59 Um, my son is a pilot in the Navy as well, and visited me in the hospital, uh, and he was, he was getting ready to go on his very first deployment. So, uh, he'd be gone for seven months. We wouldn't see him. Communications can be hard with email and mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, he wouldn't have a cell phone while he was on his ship. Uh, and, you know, he told my wife that, uh, you know, he was willing to ask his commanding officer if he could stay behind for a week to help. And she said, no, there's, there's nothing you can do right now. Go, go do what you were trained to do, be safe. Uh, and, and when you come back in seven months, um, your dad's gonna make improvements. As a matter of fact, she told him that I was gonna walk across the flight ramp to see him when he got home. And, and I looked at her like, sweetheart, didn't you hear what the doctor said? Um, but, you know, that became one of those motivators and, and the goals. And so as I was, you know, taking 10 steps and turning that into 20 steps, you know, my goal was always, I'm gonna walk across the flight line at NES Jacksonville when he lands his helicopter, and I'm gonna give him a hug. And sure enough, seven months later, I was able to do that.
Speaker 2 00:29:08 I wanna step back in your time, um, when you were going through so much of this, and you talk about that change of how it was fairly uncomfortable for you to be seen in a wheelchair. And I can imagine, you know, you're, you're so used to being able to do go be whatever you wanna be, and now you're stuck in a situation that you're having to figure out how you wanna present yourself. How did you, you wrestle with that, and how did you make, you know, get to the point where you could be comfortable and okay with it?
Speaker 4 00:29:48 Yeah. Um, so I, I'm trying to think. Uh, you know, one, one of the first times I went out in public, and again, you know, in, in Pensacola, uh, I, I won't say I was a notable public figure, but I was a pretty senior, you know, and, and, you know, I, I was active in the community, uh, and, but, and all of a sudden everything had changed. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, I, I felt vulnerable, right? Um, I did, I had to learn how to rely on other people to help me open a door or help me do this or help me do that. And, and so for me, that was just, it. It wasn't, you know, who I had been for the past, you know, 55 years. Um, but, you know, as, as I continued to do things in physical therapy, as I continued to improve, you know, I'd talk to people, I'd read to people, we had a president, um, you know, who was in a wheelchair, and he ran the country.
Speaker 4 00:30:36 Uh, and you know, when you realize things like that, you know, that kind of turns the, Hey, this is uncomfortable for me into, you know, I have a new purpose. I can be an advocate. I can show people, I can demonstrate that, you know, it's not a disability. You know, I have new abilities mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, that I have to tap into. And, and so, you know, it was just part of that, you know, fitting into your new skin, I guess, uh, is, is the best way to describe it. And, you know, it took a little time, uh, but, uh, I don't, I don't think twice about it now. This is the, the new me, the new normal, uh, and I'm focused on, you know, how do I make a difference? How do I, how do I leverage, you know, my injury, my, uh, you know, my physical condition and, and demonstrate to people, Hey, you can still do this. You can get beyond what other people tell you that you can't do.
Speaker 2 00:31:23 Yes. And I, I found that interesting. I, in your book, although we, we both know, and you talk about that they don't show the president in a wheelchair, um, exactly. That was, that was specifically, uh, really left out. And, um, you know, we both can, can fairly figure out why. Um, in regards to that. And I want to go and, and kind of dive off of that, because I notice in your book that you use several different terms on as far as like, maybe accessible, maybe handicap, maybe disability, and it's, it feels like you use a, a very wide, uh, variety of terminology. Did the terminology ever bother you or affect you, or have you disliked some terminology more than others? I asked that because, you know, I, having a disability myself, I, there I definitely feel like there are terms that I really don't like. And then there are others that I've sat well with. And it may be because I just grew up with those, I'm not sure. But what, what, but since you came into the realm and didn't grow up necessarily having them used on you, what, what's your version or feeling of that?
Speaker 4 00:32:47 So, so I'll tell you the, the and, and I, I just, I don't feel like it, but when I hear myself, or when I describe myself as a paraplegic, that almost gives me pause for, you know, gosh, that sounds so weird. Because, you know, the, there are so many things that I can do that I've been able to overcome. Um, I'll be honest with you. And, and I do realize, you know, people in the disability community, uh, you know, there are, there are terms that, uh, turn some people off. Uh, I just, you know, the, to me they're words. Um, and, and again, uh, you know, when when I hear the word disability, I always think of, no, it's not really a disability, it's new abilities. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, I had a chance to talk to, uh, Senator Bob Carey from, uh, from Nebraska. And, and Senator Carey was a, a Navy seal in Vietnam who lost a leg.
Speaker 4 00:33:37 And, and we were on a call, and this was probably three months, four months after my accident. And we were talking about some Navy training initiatives. Uh, and, and the conversation kind of went over to, you know, my accident and how things were going. And he, he told me that, you know, kind of that very same thing, he said, you know, I've been able to do more things after my accident, you know, when folks tell me I have a disability than I was able to do before the accident. And so, you know, it's, it's really, uh, more an outlook and, uh, for me, and I'm less concerned about descriptions in terms and more interested in, you know, kind of setting those goals to be able to say, Hey, what's, what's the next hurdle that I want to overcome? What's the next thing that I want to do?
Speaker 2 00:34:19 But do you think the average person who does not have a disability, do you think they judge those words?
Speaker 4 00:34:27 Um, y you know, I, I think it's, it's individually dependent. You, you're right, there are people who will stereotype. Um, and you know, when, when I go out in public and, and so today, uh, around our house, I use a walker <laugh>, um, to just about everything. Um, when I, when I travel and go to the airport, you know, I'll use a wheelchair for mobility and, you know, people will, will look at you differently. Some people, uh, will embrace, uh, that you're just like everybody else. Um, others will be very, uh, sympathetic, if that makes sense. Can I do this for you? Can I I do that for you. And so, so I think it's all an individual reaction on, you know, what people, uh, are comfortable with what they've been around. I think that's, you know, that conditioning, uh, you know, makes a difference for folks.
Speaker 4 00:35:12 Um, great example is, you know, I've got an eight year old grandson, and so he was, uh, five years old, uh, had just turned five years old after my accident. And so he's kind of growing up knowing that grandpa uses a wheelchair or walker, uh, and, you know, he, he knows when, Hey, I'll help grandpa open the door here, I'll do this. Uh, and, and I'll tell you what, he, he gets in that wheelchair and he can do wheelies and, uh, drive that around nobody's business. And so for him, you know, this is just a normal thing. Uh, and I think, you know, that's, uh, it's a pretty neat thing for a young kid like that, you know, to embrace and just say, Hey, my grandpa's no different than yours. He just gets around a little differently.
Speaker 2 00:35:54 I wonder if you could discuss, um, you, you do talk a lot about your faith in the book, and you do admit that not that you weren't religious or didn't have faith before, but you, you know, you were a busy guy and it just wasn't something you necessarily always, you know, that you dwelt on a lot or things happened, you know, and then after, and this I think is very common actually, after your accident, you, you leaned on your faith, you talked more about your faith. It, it became, almost sounded like it was stronger for you. Can you talk a little bit about how or what, why?
Speaker 4 00:36:36 Yeah. Um, and so, you know, obviously, uh, after the accident, you know, I had a whole lot of time to think and there was, you know, time to be very introspective. And, you know, I, you know, I kind of, I, I talked about that, you know, realization that I can, I had a decision to make. Um, and you know, the, the, the more I read, the more I thought, uh, and obviously there was some prayer there. You know, I, I looked for, you know, let's find a positive outcome that will be a result of my injury, of, of the accident. And I think that's where the faith really kicked in is, you know, you know, allowing me to, uh, to trust in the fact that, you know, there was purpose behind this. Uh, this just wasn't an accident. There's something that else that I'm called to do.
Speaker 4 00:37:23 Uh, and, uh, again, that's been a, a motivator for me to be able to demonstrate, to be able to tell people to be, you know, very vulnerable. People have said, gosh, that's a, a really vulnerable story that you tell. And, you know, I honestly don't consider that I, I just consider this is me, you know, like it or not, uh, this is what's worked for me. This is what's motivated me. This is what's, you know, been my north star to be able to accomplish as much as, uh, I have. Cuz quite frankly, you know, this is the battle of my life. But, uh, uh, I think I've proven the doctors wrong and, and I continue to look for opportunities to, you know, share that same message with other people.
Speaker 2 00:37:58 You, you talk a lot about something that I truly believe in, in hope that I do a lot of in my life. I sometimes feel I can fall short, but I, I feel like a lot of people don't necessarily have it. Um, and you talk a lot about giving back, and I really think that that's, that's a positive message and that, you know, it's so important to do that kind of thing. Where did you learn it and did it grow after you were injured?
Speaker 4 00:38:36 I, I don't know if it grew, um, after my injury, but, but I will tell you that, you know, that was one of the things when I first joined the Navy. So I graduated from the Naval Academy in, uh, 1985. And there was one thing, and only one thing I wanted to do. I wanted to fly. I wanted to fly more, and I wanted to fly even more, get out and go fly for the airlines. Um, and, you know, as, as I did my first couple assignments and, you know, I flew and flew and flew. You know, the one thing that I really, really embraced, and it, you know, I I really got a charge out of was, you know, being in a position as a leader, as an officer, where I had other people who worked for me. Uh, and, and I quickly learned, you know, from, from some of my senior enlisted leaders that, you know, you have an opportunity to influence, to help to, you know, make a positive difference in the life of these young, you know, young kids.
Speaker 4 00:39:27 I was 25 at the time, and, you know, I had 18 to 19 year olds working for me. And so, you know, that really planted the spark of imagination. And I think that just continued to grow with me. Um, the more senior I got, the more responsibility that I had, and really the more influence. And, you know, I'm not a, a power monger. Um, I, I, I like to think of myself as an influencer if I can positively influence and teach people, you know, what's right, look like, what, you know, what's the best way to do this? How can we improve our organization, our community, and the process? And, and so really I think that, you know, concept of, of giving back grew and grew and grew, and it became a very natural component of, you know, what's my post-accident purpose? Uh, I want to continue to do things.
Speaker 4 00:40:14 And today I'm fortunate, I retired from the Navy, and, uh, I'm the president and c e o of the Naval Aviation Museum Foundation here in Pensacola. So, you know, in, in one respect, I really feel like I can give back to the American public by, you know, teaching them about history, about, you know, creating a world class experience. But at the same time, you know, I also do this, uh, as, as a guy who's bound to a wheelchair or walker. And so I think there are things that I can demonstrate and, uh, and really give back, uh, on multiple planes.
Speaker 2 00:40:48 How long did it take you to write your book?
Speaker 4 00:40:52 So it, it started Sam as a, as a little journal. Uh, and I've never been a journal guy, but I had a, you know, one of my therapists said, Hey, keep notes as you go through, you know, talk about your, your high points and your low points, because it's really good, you know, for a family or close friends just to understand, hey, you know, what, what was this like for you? Uh, and so I did that. And, um, so I was injured in March that December, uh, I had about 75 pages of, um, pretty amateurish stories and anecdotes, many of which that are in the book today. Uh, and I gave that to my kids, <laugh>. Um, somebody got a hold of that and, uh, and said, Hey, you, you have so much, much more to tell, um, talk about, you know, it's a pretty fascinating career.
Speaker 4 00:41:37 Somebody who's been able to, you know, fly around the world, work in the White House situation room, um, you know, be involved in, you know, the, uh, detention center at Guantanamo Bay, uh, and then lead the Navy's largest shore command. So they said, you know, to that, but, but also tease out more of, you know, what are the things that motivated you? What are the things that inspired you? And so I did that, and it became kind of the after work project. I'd spent an hour or two and, uh, you know, the book has kind of, you know, broken up into different stories, and I'm a big storyteller. And, um, so it, it came pretty naturally, and I think it took me probably just under a year, uh, for me to do just about 99.9% of the writing. And then, uh, I was able to find a good editor who came in and helped me package it and, uh, dot some eyes and cross some t's for me.
Speaker 2 00:42:24 What was the most difficult part for you to write and why?
Speaker 4 00:42:28 You know, my, my, uh, um, my mom when she, when she first read the, uh, the little journal that I had kept said, Hey, this, this is really good. And, you know, I, I appreciate it, but you never talk about when you were depressed, when you were, you know, down when you were lonely. And, and, you know, as I thought about it, I said, you know, mom, I, I really didn't have too many of those moments. So there's, there's not a lot to talk about. And, you know, therefore the title relentless positivity, uh, seems to be a really good fit for that. So, um, you know, the, the difficult parts, uh, you know, I, I guess remembering that night, so the night of the accident, and I can, you know, remember I was the last one to go up to bed and, uh, you know, before I knew it, you know, I had, uh, landed on the floor, uh, and I couldn't move my legs, and I was confused.
Speaker 4 00:43:21 I was dazed, and I couldn't understand why. Uh, and, you know, I had to call for help from my wife, and she came down and, you know, the next thing I know, I, I've woken up for major spinal surgery, uh, the next day in, uh, I C U. And, uh, obviously life had changed. So it's, it's always kind of hard to go back and, and, and relive that, not because, uh, I have regrets, not because I feel sorry for myself, but, you know, that's the day my life changed, or that's the night my life changed.
Speaker 2 00:43:47 Right. You do realize that is, I mean, I suspect it's because of the drive you have that you have come as far as you have. I mean, certainly you have had, um, family support and that that can play a large part, but also one's drive really does, there's people who sometimes get injured less than you did or more, and they don't get anywhere near this. Um, what, I mean, do you attribute your drive to how far you've gotten?
Speaker 4 00:44:25 I, I sure do. And, and, and again, um, I, I really can point right back to my, my career as a Navy pilot. You know, one of the things, uh, you know, you don't have a choice to be thick skin, to be tough, um, and to, you know, seek perfection in everything that you do. And so, um, you know, quite frankly, uh, all the proceeds for this book go back to the Naval Aviation Museum. So, you know, I can continue to tell stories about real heroes, not about guys like me, but <laugh>, you know, heroes contributed to history and, you know, received the Medal of honor, or, or, you know, were materially, uh, uh, just said farewell to, uh, uh, a friend of mine who had passed away at 104 years old. Wow. And he was a harbor survivor. He was on the, the s s, uh, Pennsylvania, uh, and his name was Frank Emans.
Speaker 4 00:45:12 And Frank was an amazing individual who just, you know, personified. There was a kid who joined the Navy to be, uh, a musician, and he found himself on his ship basing Japanese Kamikazi on the morning of December 7th. Those are the real heroes in the world. Um, and so, uh, yeah, that, that drive has been there with the Navy. And, you know, it's back to that chapter in the book, that good enough is never good enough. We always, you know, don't be, don't ever settle for where you are. As you know, this is as much as I'm gonna do this as much as I'm gonna get. Cuz I really feel, uh, again, uh, if you, if you have faith, if you have determination, if you have drive, grit and toughness, you can push yourself incrementally. And maybe it's not gonna be, you know, I'll, I'll admit I'm gonna have a tough time walking on my own. Um, but I will continue to push myself to do things, uh, that, uh, I didn't think I was able to do last week.
Speaker 2 00:46:08 What do you want a reader to get from your book?
Speaker 4 00:46:12 I, I would like to, you know, it, it, uh, it's somewhat intimidating for me to say I want to inspire people because, um, you know, it, it, I think I've done what many people would, would do, uh, under the same circumstances, but, but I think they're, whether it's inspiration, um, whether it's finding your own purpose, uh, and, and somebody asked me who, who's the target audience of your book? Uh, and I, I think it's anyone, right? Um, because, you know, it's not just about somebody who's had a catastrophic injury, you know, I think we all have circumstances, and that's what I'll call 'em, circumstances in, in our lives that, uh, you know, require us to, you know, kind of work our way through to, you know, have faith, have grit, determination, and, you know, kind of a plan to, to push through. Whether that's something, you know, like my injury or, you know, maybe it's a you you got offend into a fender bender and you know, you're, you, you don't want to tell your parents or <laugh>, uh, you've had that job interviewing. You just can't land the perfect job. We can all get beyond those circumstances. We just have to believe in ourselves. We have to work hard. Uh, and, and so whether it's inspiration, whether it's motivation, uh, or just finding, you know, a renewed sense of purpose, uh, that's what I hope readers get out of this.
Speaker 2 00:47:27 I need to take a one more, more short break and let people know that you're tuned to Kfa I, 90.3 fm, Minneapolis and kfa i.org g. We are reachable at Disability and
[email protected]. We are archived and we are also podcasted. And also wanna shout out to Erin and thank you for, um, mixing the show into a podcast. So we always appreciate that one of the chapters in the book is, it's Alright Not to be All right. Would you like to talk about what that meant to you at the time?
Speaker 4 00:48:05 Yeah, so, so there's a little story there. When we first got to Pensacola, um, there's a, a very famous, uh, beach bar, um, called the Florabama sits on the Florida, Alabama border. Um, and it's a, you know, it's a shabby looking, uh, and, and it's a historic relic. Everybody goes there. Uh, there's entertainment, uh, in, and it's a sprawling beach bar. Well, on Sundays they actually do a church service there. And, you know, my wife and I found about it and, you know, we ended up there and their motto was, it's all right not to be all right. Uh, and, and that kind of flows into the, the, the reason that that struck me was, you know, as I was going through that period where, Hey, I've gotta get back out in public. I've, you know, this is a new normal. Uh, it's nothing to be ashamed of.
Speaker 4 00:48:47 Uh, I might be a little different, but it's okay to be different. And just, you know, really embracing that. Because like you said, you know, we had a president fdr, you know, who was wheelchair bound, um, but they'd never showed his wheelchair. Right? But if you think about it today, you know, governor Greg Abbott from, uh, from Texas, uh, is another wheelchair user. Uh, and it's common to see him in his wheelchair. And, um, when, uh, the very first time I traveled, uh, I traveled to Great Lakes, Illinois to speak at a bootcamp graduation mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And they had to go to Great Lakes, they put a handicap ramp up. I had to go out there before the procession, you know, 10 minutes before. And so, you know, there were, there were probably, you know, anywhere from five to 10,000 people, uh, to include families and graduates in the audience.
Speaker 4 00:49:32 Uh, and, you know, I was in my wheelchair. I would say that 90% of the people in the audience had no idea. Uh, and I was able to get myself up. I stood up and I had delivered my remarks. Uh, and, you know, you want to talk about, uh, uh, a moment that you will never forget. That was kind of my, Hey, I'm back in business, here I am. And nobody else in the audience knew it. And so, you know, to me, I was, I was normal, I was new. Uh, and it was just another one of those affirmations that, Hey, I can do more than the doc ever thought that would be possible.
Speaker 2 00:50:07 Were you worried about your friend's acceptance? They knew you as one thing, and then you're coming back and sort of reacquainting yourself and wondering, did you ever wonder how they would accept you?
Speaker 4 00:50:20 I, I never did. And, and, and I would say, um, you know, if, if you're impacted by a serious illness or injury like this, uh, and your friends, um, don't continue to embrace you for the person you are, because I, I was still Kyle, uh, nothing had changed about the man. I was the person, I was the husband, the father, the son that I was. And so I, I never had, um, I had a concern, uh, or a worry there. And again, I, I consider myself very fortunate. Uh, the, uh, the, the coworkers that, uh, that I had that took over for me, um, could not have embraced, you know, just the person I was and not the new person, the mobility, you know, impaired, uh, guy that I was, uh, I was always Kyle to them. And so, um, you know, that was one thing that I never, never worried about.
Speaker 2 00:51:14 Where can one get your book?
Speaker 4 00:51:17 So the book, uh, we did a book hiding at Barnards and Nobles, and I know that, uh, bookstores around the country sell them. Uh, you can go on Amazon or, uh, I'll encourage listeners if they're interested. I, if you go to naval aviation.com, uh, that is the, uh, the, the store, our Flight deck store and the National Naval Aviation Museum. Uh, and if you do that, you'll get a signed copy. Uh, and, uh, also an opportunity, uh, I'd love to personalize a book for you. I've got a little message of encouragement. Uh, again, regardless of your circumstance, I think everybody can benefit from reading this.
Speaker 5 00:51:51 Yes.
Speaker 2 00:51:52 What are you gonna do now?
Speaker 4 00:51:56 So I, I still have this passion and, and, and actually, you know, it, it's, it's a blend of a passion for telling the story of Naval aviation, uh, to folks who might not otherwise be familiar. Um, but, uh, you know, also, so we're in kind of the second month and, uh, we're doing more and more book signings. Um, I do uh, public speaking. Uh, so had a chance to, and I'll pitch, uh, uh, a sponsor of ours, chick-fil-A, uh, went to Atlanta and talked to about 250 people. Um, so I do a lot of inspirational public speaking, uh, and, uh, you can contact me on, on LinkedIn if you are interested there. I just, you know, ah, excellent. Again, I person get out there and be able to, to, to be vulnerable, tell my story, and hopefully be able to reach one or two people.
Speaker 2 00:52:42 Um, I'm looking forward to, I Do you think you'll ever write again? Do you think you'll put out another book?
Speaker 4 00:52:49 I, I don't know. Um, you know, I'll be honest with you. I, I almost find it, uh, um, it's, it's definitely humbling <laugh>, uh, when people say, I read your book. I really enjoyed it. Um, and, you know, I, I'm a pretty simple guy. I'm not sure what I would write about next <laugh>. Uh, but, uh, I, I certainly enjoyed this process and, you know, I, uh, somebody, somebody, um, mentored me and said, you know, when you write a book, it's, it's not a sprint. It's not a two or three month evolution, and then you're done and you never sell anything. So, you know, I, I really think for now, you know, I'm focused on how do I continue to, you know, talk to folks like you and your listeners. How do I continue to tell the story? How do I continue to point people in this direction? And, you know, do that through book signings, through, uh, you know, public speaking engagements that, uh, you know, that I just really enjoy doing, I'm passionate about now.
Speaker 2 00:53:40 Well, great job. And I do wanna thank you very much for giving us your time and coming on, and also ask my research person, Charlene Doll, if she is anything she'd like to say.
Speaker 3 00:53:53 I just wanna thank you for your service and your inspiration to people, because we need that right now.
Speaker 4 00:54:06 Well, I, I appreciate that, Charlene, and, and I do agree with you. I, I think, you know, the, the place our country is in right now, um, you look at, you know what, whatever the different events are, uh, we need a little relentless positivity in our lives, and hopefully this strikes a chord there. Again, uh, it's not necessarily, you know, restricted to folks with disabilities, but everybody's got that circumstance in their life where they can use that positive attitude, uh, to be able to take them to ano another step. So, I appreciate both of you for what you do, and you know, the great message that, uh, that this show casts.
Speaker 2 00:54:42 Indeed. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 00:54:44 You've been listening to Disability and Progress. The views expressed on this show are not necessarily those of K F E I or it's board of directors. My name is Sam. I'm the host of this show. If you wanna be part of the show and part of the listenership, you can go ahead and email us at Disability and progress, sam jasmine.com or that's how you can do it. And, um, Charlene Dell is my research woman. Erin is my podcaster, and we've been speaking tonight with Admiral Kyle Ko about his book, relentless Positivity. Thanks so much for joining me. Good night.
