Speaker 1 00:01:00 And hello, thank you for joining Disability and Progress, where we bring you insights into ideas about, and discussions on disability topics. My name is Sam. I'm the host of this show. Thanks so much for tuning in. Charlene Doll is my research team. Hello, Charlene.
Speaker 0 00:01:15 Hello, everybody. And it's, it's not really spring here, but we're trying to get there.
Speaker 1 00:01:20 Don't say it, don't say it. And thanks to Aaron for being our podcaster. And also, um, thank you listeners. We also wanna thank people who join our listener club. And if you'd like to join our listener club, you can send me an email to Disability and
[email protected]. But tonight we have,
Speaker 0 00:01:42 Yes, Mr. Kurt Jones from Battle Lake, Minnesota.
Speaker 1 00:01:46 Thanks Kurt for joining us. We always love hearing from you. Kurt was on the show. Um, if nobody remembers, everyone of course remembers Kurt. Don't worry. They all remember, um, was on the show with Tamarack, um, his band that came on several times actually. So, uh, that's been kind of fun. So I just wanna thank you again for joining and if, again, if you wanna be on the listener, um, member list, you can email me at Sam, or sorry, disability and
[email protected]. So now for tonight's guest tonight, we have a double biller for you this week. Um, Alyssa Gok, is that right? Elisa Gola. Alisa Goup, I'm sorry. That's okay. <laugh>, nobody gets it right. Who is <laugh> executive Director. Um, we'll be discussing the, the organization Helping Pause and she is also joined by executive director Jeff Johnson. You
Speaker 0 00:02:53 Can't get that wrong, <laugh>. I know.
Speaker 1 00:02:55 It's too easy. I I had to think about that though. I was like, okay. It is really Jeff Johnson. Right. <laugh>
Speaker 3 00:03:00 <laugh>. Too
Speaker 1 00:03:01 Easy. I know, right. Um, thank you guys very much for joining. And I, and I did you both, uh, deliberately at the same time because I think sometimes people get different dog groups mixed up and I think it'd be just a fun pair and contrast, uh, to have you both on. So thank you very much for coming on.
Speaker 3 00:03:21 Yeah,
Speaker 4 00:03:22 Thank you. Yeah, thanks for inviting us.
Speaker 1 00:03:24 So let's start out, um, I don't have to say identify yourself with your voice because it's obviously we have one of each <laugh>. Um, but can you please give us, um, a brief history on yourselves and how you came to your specific organization?
Speaker 3 00:03:41 Go
Speaker 4 00:03:42 Ahead. Um, so again, I'm Alisa Gola. I'm the Executive Director at Helping Pause. I've been at Helping Pause for exactly a year. Um, I've been in the nonprofit industry for over 30 years. All different places, youth work, um, camps, um, federated giving organizations, um, and then somehow some way I looked at the right ad at the right time and landed this dream job. So, um, thrilled to be with helping p um, 35 year old organization. We're going into our 35th anniversary right now, helping Pause, ums mission is to further people's independence with the use of assistance dogs.
Speaker 1 00:04:31 Okay. We will get to more of that. That
Speaker 4 00:04:33 Okay,
Speaker 1 00:04:34 Jeff?
Speaker 3 00:04:35 Sure. So I've been at Candu Canines as executive director for just over two years now. So I've been, I've been here a little bit longer than Elisa, but not a lot.
Speaker 1 00:04:45 Both they're babies.
Speaker 3 00:04:46 We are, and we both replaced longtime founders. Both of these organizations started at about the same time and we replaced the founders. Uh, my background is just from a totally different world of government and politics and law. I was on the county board for a while and in the Minnesota House and, and I also practiced law. Wow. And so this is, this is a, Lisa described it as a dream job and it, the same thing happened to me. I happened to be looking to do something different at exactly the right time and was in the right place and, and lucked into this because it's, um, it's just an amazing job. Both, both places are amazing, amazing places for
Speaker 4 00:05:21 Us to be. I like that idea of lucking into it. <laugh>. That's exactly what
Speaker 1 00:05:24 Happened. So Jeff, you're kind of one of those valuable, all-encompassing but scary people to have on the <laugh>
Speaker 3 00:05:31 <laugh>. Scary,
Speaker 1 00:05:32 You know, you know a lot about a lot of things that could be scary
Speaker 3 00:05:35 <laugh> or Yeah. A little about a lot of things, but if, when you come from politics, you pretend a lot, so,
Speaker 1 00:05:40 Ah, that's right. Could you, did you, can you both just kind of give me a little bit of insight, like what kind of experience you had with the people with disabilities before you came to this? Because this is all about disabilities.
Speaker 4 00:05:53 Correct. Um, so throughout my career, um, uh, you know, whether I worked in camps or I worked in community programming, I always had, um, some part of my job that worked with the area within disabilities. So I had some background going through that. Um, also, um, both of my children, um, have disabilities. Um, so that world and the nonprofit world and being in that world was just a really natural space, um, for me to be in
Speaker 1 00:06:28 Jeff.
Speaker 3 00:06:29 And for me, other, setting aside, just having some friends who have educated me over the years, um, my experience has come in the world of politics. So I was on the Hennepin County Board for 11 years and a big piece of what the board does is fund, um, human service, human services organizations, including organizations that help people with disabilities. So, um, that experience has been invaluable for me in this particular organization.
Speaker 1 00:06:56 Thank you. So interesting background <laugh>. I know, I know. Isn't it? So now I, now I want you guys to tell me about what each of your organizations do and the different types of dogs that you know, that they, that you graduate. Like, not, not necessarily breed, but like what do they do? Those types of dogs? Yep.
Speaker 4 00:07:22 Um, so we'll rewind and pretend I didn't say it before. That's okay. But, um, yes, helping Pause is 35 years old and we focus on people with physical disabilities, veterans and first responders with P T S D. And we've begun some work in the, um, area of facility dogs, um, whether they be in a courthouse or, um, a, a rehabilitation center for, um, traumatic brain injuries and things like that. So that is our main core focus are those three areas.
Speaker 3 00:07:57 And at Candu Canines we serve people with five different types of disabilities. Um, Mobil people who have mobility issues, which is very broad. Um, people who are deaf or severely hard of hearing people who have seizures, people who have type one diabetes and children with autism. And we have also been at about the same time starting to move into the area of facility dogs. We've been working with Children's Masonic Hospital and have three dogs placed there and then are working with, um, Fairview just a bit about maybe placing a couple more, which is a very different model cuz instead of serving one person for a long time, they serve lots of people for a short period of time. Right.
Speaker 1 00:08:36 Can I ask like, is the, is a facility dog actually considered a service dog or are they just like a emotional support type?
Speaker 3 00:08:49 They, they are considered, at least the ones that we are placing right now, are still considered an assistance dog. And, um, if I can just expound on that difference, cuz a lot of people don't understand the difference between this. That's right. Yeah, go for it. Yeah. So, so an assistance dog or a service dog, they are somewhat interchangeable are, are at a certain level? Well, they, they have to be trained for physical tasks. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they may also do a lot of emotional work, but they're trained for certain physical tasks. And, um, an emotional support dog generally isn't right. They, they still receive some training, but they're more of a, a little bit more like a companion dog. And so the facility dogs that we place really do serve both purposes. They, they play a very important emotional support role, especially in a, a children's hospital, obviously, but they're also taught specific physical tasks to do as well.
Speaker 4 00:09:35 Yeah, I think that's a really good point. I mean, if I think about our dogs that are working with people, uh, again, in the traumatic brain, um, injury rehabilitation center, some of the things that they're wanting their, the patients to do that they're kind of reluctant to do, they can bring in that dog and have the dog show them how open the door or, you know, and somehow that dog breaks down. Well, we all know that the dogs break down that barrier and the patient's more willing to be part of their own, um, rehabilitation.
Speaker 1 00:10:11 Do you guys overlap at all?
Speaker 3 00:10:15 I think we do some, not a lot. I mean, we don't do PTs d um, and some of the things that we do, I know helping pause doesn't, but you do some mobility issues, do
Speaker 4 00:10:25 You know? Yeah. Um, mostly physical, you know, disabilities being in a, in a wheelchair primarily. But I think what we do really well together is share resources. So there's many times that someone might call for a, a dog that helps with autism mm-hmm. <affirmative> and we're super happy to refer them to can do canine. Yep. Um, the most important thing is that the person gets the dog that they need to grow their independence and their quality of life. And at the bottom line that's living our mission, whether it's referring them to candu canine or being able to take them on ourselves.
Speaker 3 00:11:00 Yeah. We, we like to do the same thing. And then I think there's, in, in the history of the organizations, maybe there's been a little bit of competition <laugh> and we just don't see it that way because there's so much need out there. There are plenty of clients and plenty of, of support for both of our organizations. So it's kind of fun to work together.
Speaker 1 00:11:17 And I presume you both are 5 0 1 <unk> <unk> That's correct. Can you talk just a, a small amount of time on how you raise your money?
Speaker 4 00:11:26 Go ahead. Um, so we are supported through, um, individual donations, corporate sponsors, foundations, and grants. Um, all of that, all of those donations, all of those beautiful gifts allow us to do the work that we do every day. Um, so we're very grateful to our supporters. Um, and we work a lot now we're expanding our corporation, um, platform a little bit, really reaching out to kind of have year long relationships with some of our corporate sponsors. So redesigning that a little bit. Um, but yeah, it's all, it's all money from fundraising. Um, I mean, Jeff might be able to speak to the this as well, but we know, um, by the time we put all the investment into the dog, the dog is, you know, the dog is bread, the puppies are had, the vets are taken, the training, each dog going out our door is worth about $30,000. And for us, that dog is gifted to the client. There's really very minimal cost to the client. Are we, we call them a graduate once they leave our training program mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and so we can't do that. There's, we can't offer that without our donors and supporters.
Speaker 3 00:12:44 And, and we do the same. We rely upon individuals and corporations and foundations. We, um, we don't seek government funding. Save for, you know, the P P P loan or grant was very helpful, <laugh> right. During Covid, but otherwise that's really not, um, part of what we do. And we also give our dogs away free of charge and, and always want to be able to do that because we don't want that to be a barrier for someone who can't afford a dog. So we, um, we're just really appreciative of the generous people who wanna help others.
Speaker 1 00:13:13 Let's talk puppies. Everyone loves puppies. Love talking about puppies. Um, where do you come from? Yeah, let's talk about an answer. You know, where the, well, we know where they come from. Charlene needs to go back to some more biology <laugh> We'll, we'll deal with that later.
Speaker 4 00:13:28 That's a whole nother show. Yeah. Right. That
Speaker 1 00:13:30 Is a whole nother show. But just Yeah. Talk about how you get your dogs and what, you know, how that works.
Speaker 4 00:13:38 Yeah. So we at helping PS have our own breeding program. We're very proud of that. It has a very strong history. Um, Eileen Boneh, who was the founder of helping ps, um, has really been the hands-on person up to her point of retiring in a few weeks. But it has been the hands-on person who has really, um, been able to make that breeding program as successful as it is. So we, um, what we do is when a litter is born, we usually, um, if it's the right fit, identify one of the female dogs to become a, a breeding dog. So they do go through the same program as all the other dogs because we know that that's really important in the traits that they're learning. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, but then they live in a, what we call a caretaker home instead of a foster home. They live in a caretaker home and they are breeded when they are ready. And, um, they have puppies. And then eight weeks later they enter into, they go into a foster home trainer. Um, and they begin their career to be super pups,
Speaker 1 00:14:49 <laugh>. And Jeff, does your organization do the same?
Speaker 3 00:14:52 We do. We, we, I would say about 80% of our dogs come from our breeding program. And, uh, that's a, I think the reason both of our organizations and many do have their own breeding program is because of the success rate is just so much better than, uh, a dog that is not purpose bred to be an assistance dog. And, and, you know, our, our success rate is around 70%. Some years it's better and maybe others years it's a little worse. We're also part of an international breeding cooperative. So we will trade either dogs or semen from, from stud dogs to breed and try to improve every generation, kind of those personality traits that make for a make for a dog that is not just good at being assistant's dog, but gets joy out of working. Cuz not all dogs sing. I mean, dogs are like people. That's some Love it. That's true. Some don't. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and we try to rescue a dog or two every year. The success rate is not good, but we still try ah, because we want to
Speaker 4 00:15:44 Right's
Speaker 1 00:15:45 Good. Trying is good. Um, how old are the puppies when you start the training?
Speaker 4 00:15:52 For us, it's eight weeks. Um, they leave the welling home and they, um, again, we use all foster home volunteer foster home trainers. So the, that foster home trainer takes the dog, um, and lives with that, with lives with the foster home trainer family, what, you know, whatever is at, was at the house, um, for two and a half years. Um, and comes to our facility once a week to work with our professional trainers. Um, and they, that's the puppy's mom and dad for those two and a half years.
Speaker 3 00:16:27 Our ours is a little different, although similar to that. So we, um, I think for both of us, the training starts immediately even, you know, even when they're a week old, there's little tiny things that you're doing to get them used to whatever it is. But ours, like, uh, helping pa ours stay in the home for about five weeks, but then ours all move to a, a weaning prison. So we have, we have five prisons that we, eight prisons that we work with, but saw
Speaker 0 00:16:52 That, uh, oh no, five, was it Channel
Speaker 3 00:16:56 Five, Fox Nine, Fox Nine had a nice story about that. Yeah. And so we've got three prisons in Wisconsin and four prisons in Minnesota. So that makes seven. I get the number right at some point. And, um, um, we have weaning prisons. So the, the, the moms and the new litter stay in that weaning prison for five weeks in, they're weaned off of each other. And then our dogs go one of two paths. One path is just essentially living with volunteers that train them mm-hmm. <affirmative> for another, you know, year and a half to two years, or kind of a mix between a prison program and volunteers. And then again, like helping pa they come in and they live in our facility then for several weeks where our professional trainers figure out what it is they wanna do and then train them specifically for an individual.
Speaker 1 00:17:39 I, I did hear about the, the pro prison program, and I'm curious to know, did you ever do any statistics like how well the dogs do coming out of the prison program as opposed to the volunteers? Like, is there a more, a bigger success rate from one to the other?
Speaker 3 00:17:57 We, no, I don't think we've done any sort of actual study, but I think if you talk to any of our staff who's been around for a while, they will tell you the, the, the dogs that come out of prison that spend more time in prison are more skill trained than the dogs that spend all their time in volunteer homes because the focus there is on skills. Right. Whereas the focus in the volunteer homes, for us, this is a little different, but for us it's more socialization. Right. And, you know, basic obedience training as opposed to training skills. So we have found that our dogs that, um, that spend more time in prison are, you know, these inmate handlers don't have a lot, they're very focused on doing this. Right. Right. And it's a competitive program to get into. So it's an amazing win-win for us.
Speaker 1 00:18:43 And do they get a list of things that the, the puppy razor should look for or try to do with them to kind of enhance their skills?
Speaker 3 00:18:56 Y absolutely. Are you talking about the prison or about
Speaker 1 00:18:58 Volunteers? Either one.
Speaker 3 00:19:00 Well, for, well for both of them. For prison, we, we have somebody who goes into each prison every week and does in-person training. And then they are, you know, given their tasks for the week to work on. Um, and for our, our volunteers, they come into our facility every other week to do training with a trainer and, and then are given the homework essentially. Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:19:18 And little bit different for us. So they do live with the foster home trainer for that whole two and a half years. And they come to our facility in Hopkins once a week to train with our professional trainers. Um, and we have four parts of our curriculum. So Perfect puppies is where, um, oxymoron, but perfect puppies are, um, really learning. Those be beginning behavioral traits. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, you know, knowing their name, um, things like that. Um, again, we're gonna have an oxymoron here, but then they go to awesome adolescence, ah,
Speaker 1 00:19:50 <laugh>.
Speaker 4 00:19:51 Um, and then about six to nine months later they will go to working dogs. Um, working dogs now is more, they're starting to, um, both of our facilities are kind of set up like a home, um, or public settings. So, you know, learning how to turn on a light, learning how to open a door. Um, and then they go into what I call, um, puppy College, which is our big dog program. And they start to do those, um, tasks, those skills more out in public on field trips. They're going to target, they're going to Menards, they're going to all the places to make sure that when they're in public, that they're still very, very much focused on the person training them. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And by the end of all of that, our, our dogs know about 80 cues, um, by the time they graduate our program.
Speaker 1 00:20:45 And, um, I'm wondering how old the dogs are when they're given, let's call them end users, <laugh>, <laugh>. How old are they when they're given to the end user?
Speaker 4 00:20:57 Um, anywhere? For us it's anywhere to two, two and a half years. It's about the same. Um, yeah, I mean that's really what it takes to, you know, be able to, um, train a dog to that skill level. Um, and it just kind of depends, you know, I think, I kind of joked with you earlier, Sam, that the, the female dogs seem to graduate sooner, just like our female humans are a little bit more mature. <laugh> and the male dogs come a little bit later.
Speaker 1 00:21:21 Sorry Jeff. It's
Speaker 4 00:21:22 All right.
Speaker 1 00:21:23 <laugh>.
Speaker 3 00:21:23 I had two boys. I totally understand. I have two
Speaker 4 00:21:26 Boys too, so
Speaker 1 00:21:26 I, so do I <laugh>.
Speaker 4 00:21:28 Yeah. So it's really about that two, two and a half year mark, um, that we try to make the match. And we can talk about that if you want, how we do the matching and what that all looks like, um, and how we train the person who gets the dog. But it's, yeah, right about that two and a half year mark.
Speaker 1 00:21:45 You know, I will, we will talk about that in just a minute. I'm just curious, what, what do you do with the dog if it doesn't make it? Because there's always some that don't.
Speaker 3 00:21:57 Yeah, of course there aren't. There are, you know, every
Speaker 1 00:21:58 School will tell you.
Speaker 3 00:21:59 Yeah. Yes. 30, 30% essentially is kind of where we're at. We're hoping to make that a little bit smaller. But, um, they are, they are given to someone as an amazing pet, uh, in our case. So we have, we first offer them to the volunteers who raised them mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And the vast majority of the time they, they jump at the chance Right. To have this dog as a pet. Right. Um, but sometimes it doesn't work cause they already have dogs or whatever. And then we just have a list online of people who are looking for a dog and, um, we contact them and say, here's what we have.
Speaker 4 00:22:29 Yeah. We pretty much did the same thing. We call it a career change. Um, and that dog, um, so I can think of one case where, um, it was a foster home trainer. They trained the dog, the dog did, um, for a variety of reasons why dogs don't make it through the curriculum. Um, but now that dog in the foster home trainer, his wife now takes that dog weekly to hospitals and senior centers and senior homes, um, cuz those dogs wanna work, you know? Right. And then we still want them to have a purpose. So, um, same thing though that we keep the first choice goes to the foster home trainer, then we have a list. But we do try to find a way for that dog to continue to have a purpose.
Speaker 1 00:23:12 All right. Let's talk about the match, which is the end game. Yeah. That's what you want. It's a good successful match. So how does, how's that done? Go
Speaker 4 00:23:21 Ahead. So, um, it's pretty remarkable. Um, I, I will tell you, it was my very first week when, um, I was watching through the window this match happened and people told me why I was interviewing that. Oh, oh, you'll see Elisa, the, the dog chooses the person. I'm like, that's absolutely ridiculous, <laugh>. Um, but I watched through the window and I watched this gentleman who's a veteran, um, meet four different dogs. One dog just sat there, one dog was, you know, distracted. And these are trained two and a half years trained dogs and then comes out dog number three, walks up, does every command, and puts his head on the veteran's lap. Um, so I'm crying, I'm sure everybody else was crying and a match was made. And, um, the dog absolutely picks its person.
Speaker 3 00:24:21 It, it is. I mean, it is the greatest key to our success is to find, because not everybody is a match and not everybody. Right. Not every dog is a match for that particular person or, you know, that <laugh>. Yeah. Right. Yes, we do. I mean, it, it's the way it works. And, um, ours is a a little bit different if once our dogs come in for final training. So they've spent that two years or so with volunteers and in prison, then they come and live in our facility and our professional trainers train them and try to figure out at that point first what they love and what they're good at. But then they work with our client services coordinators, which is a different team, and they sit down and, and actually make that match together. So this is the type of dog I have, this is what he or she is good at and loves to do. Do you have a client that you think would be a good match? And then once that match is made, then they work together with the client to, to kind of finish that training.
Speaker 4 00:25:13 Right. And then we would bring, once that match is made, you know, again, our client, um, for our peop our folks with physical disabilities, they come to, um, helping pause for three weeks of kind of a bootcamp where we transfer those aqs fine tune some of 'em based on that person's need, um, to the graduate, um, so that they can take
Speaker 1 00:25:37 Over. I know I, I know that everyone kind of dwells on this, but it is still very close to the fact, and I have to ask, what did you guys do during covid? Because I know seeing I shut down for a while, which is where my dog comes from.
Speaker 3 00:25:54 Well, for us, it, it was before my time. So I, I stepped in kind of toward a little bit closer to the end of Covid, but they did, um, they, they cleared out our kennels. We usually have 20 to 40 dogs in our kennels in final training at any given time. And because we closed down the building, we had to find foster homes for those as well as obviously all the, we have about 250 dogs in our system at any time. And so they shut down for I think a couple weeks and then opened up in a very, very limited fashion after that. Um, we came back to work full force when we could, which was, man, a year ago or a year and a half ago. Um, and, uh, it, it was, I think it was tough. It was tough for a lot of assistance dog organizations because breeding changes during that period, which affects you two years later. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Absolutely. Um, so, you know, we, we have felt the effects of that
Speaker 4 00:26:42 A hundred percent. I mean, very similar. Again, I came after. But, um, you know, the, the dogs were able to stay with their foster home. They did as much training over Zoom as they could, but you can imagine that that doesn't have the same effect as in-person training. Um, and you know, so we graduated less dogs and I think we're both recovering from that. Our waiting lists are very long mm-hmm. <affirmative> because of that two year, you know, break, um, that we're trying to catch up from, um, and be able to continue matching at the same rate and continue breeding at the same rate. And it, it'll probably take a good another year to really kind of feel like we're in the place that we wore four or five years ago.
Speaker 3 00:27:32 The, there were benefits though, as we always hear about Covid. Right. Certain things where you get to eat with your family more often and those sorts of things, <laugh>. But, um, for us, we did online training as well and that has been a nice supplement to the in-person training mm-hmm. <affirmative> so that if somebody just can't make it on a given week. Sure. Yeah. There's also now videos that, that I'm sure both of us have that wouldn't have existed if not for being, you know, having to make that
Speaker 4 00:27:55 Learning on the fly. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:27:57 I'm just curious, did you extend at any point as far as like you almost have an opportunity to do a parallel thing, right? Like you could do some online trainings via Zoom or whatever and then also your in-person stuff.
Speaker 3 00:28:14 Yes. Yeah. And, and we do, do, we do somewhat of a combination there. You think you guys do every week? We do every other week. So sometimes in between something else would happen online.
Speaker 1 00:28:25 Is there anything that has changed? Let's, I'm, I'm just talking like from before Charlene <laugh>, um, from before the, um, you know, where, what you guys did as far as how things were before Covid to now, do you do anything different after,
Speaker 3 00:28:45 You know, from the
Speaker 1 00:28:46 Protocols or anything
Speaker 3 00:28:47 Like that? Yeah, from a, from a dog training standpoint, I'm, I'm not thinking of anything. Obviously from the, from the volunteer training, there's more flexibility now I think for people. Um, we certainly have seen the same changes in the workplace that every workplace has where Yeah. You know, people are, are able to do more work remotely than they used to, depending upon what their job is. So that, I think that's been a plus for a lot of staff members.
Speaker 4 00:29:11 Yeah. I would say that that's probably just the same for us. I don't know that our curriculum has changed. Um, we've just been more flexible.
Speaker 3 00:29:19 We, I will add, we were, we had to leave all seven of our prisons during Covid for a long period of time, not for a couple weeks. Oh. And that was difficult cuz not only did we need to, yeah, we had to find volunteers for all the dogs that were in the kennel, but we also had to find volunteers for all the dogs that were in all seven of those prisons. And we actually just got back in the last prison in Rochester, you know, a few months ago. So we're back in all of them again. But it was, that was tough. That would
Speaker 4 00:29:46 Be tough.
Speaker 1 00:29:47 How many dogs go into the prison system?
Speaker 3 00:29:50 You know, I don't know the, the total number. Usually it's probably 10 to 15 at a time in each of them. And so, you know, they go in little waves, but, you know, it's quite a few dogs that go through that program.
Speaker 1 00:30:03 I could imagine that this would improve a prisoner's outlook and behavior, having to train the dog.
Speaker 3 00:30:10 We hear that a lot from, I mean the, the, the prisons that we're in, when you talk to the warden there or other staff there, they will say, many of them will say, you know, we weren't sure because it's more work, right? To have a, to have a dog program in the prison mm-hmm. <affirmative> and they have a separate wing for it in, in every case. Um, but every one of them have said that it, it, it fundamentally changes. These guys and gals were in a woman's prison and then six male prisons. And, um, and, and when we talk to the inmates, I try to visit on occasion and it is, you know, a lot of them are, are in for a long, long time cuz they did something really bad and I've had multiple of them say this is, this is a little bit of tiny bit of redemption for me, or this is the only meaningful thing I have in my life right now mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, so it's, it's pretty cool cuz it's a huge help for us. It's important for our clients, but it's actually probably positive for them as well.
Speaker 0 00:31:06 Are there other, uh, dog training, uh, around the country that do prison?
Speaker 3 00:31:12 Yes. Yeah. A lot of, a lot of the larger schools do prison programs affect, I mean, I I think it started back in the eighties or nineties I think a, a nun founded at, um, somewhere out on the east coast that, that had school and, and started moving into the prisons and it's become pretty popular.
Speaker 1 00:31:30 You had a couple other questions, didn't you Charlene?
Speaker 0 00:31:32 I do. And one, one of them is when you need to get new trainers and people will retire, just move on. Where do you get 'em?
Speaker 4 00:31:44 I mean, I think that, you know, our, for our trainers, um, every you know, that that group of people, they have their inner circles, you know, um, when we need trainers we're they're able to reach out to, um, their colleagues and the people that they surround themselves with. And, um, there there is, it's not as hard to get a trainer. Um, I used to think it was, but I was told it's not that hard to get a trainer. Um, and, you know, this type of work is, um, pretty positive. I mean, I I, I'll get resumes all the time saying I used to be a veterinarian and, but now I just need to do something good. You know, can I work at helping pa and I would love to take all of them, but there does seem to be kind of that career changed thing that happens as well. And we do get, um, a lot of people who have worked in the animal industry in some way or another, but really feel that they need to, um, rejuvenate and helping Pause is a great place to do that.
Speaker 3 00:32:47 Yeah. I, I, I kind of see it the same way. It is, it's interesting the different avenues that trainers will come from because it's, it's not all that often that a trainer from a different school will come and work for us. It does happen once in a while, but, um, more it's somebody who is, has experience with dogs, but it's maybe a little bit different. Um, there's also, you know, there are a couple of colleges out there that teach dog training, um, and when we recently hired somebody from one of them. So there's, there's a lot of different ways people can get to us, but I would agree we have, when we've had openings, um, that has been less difficult to fill than some of the other openings we've
Speaker 4 00:33:26 Had. Definitely.
Speaker 1 00:33:28 I'm wondering if the end user, I don't know why I like that term
Speaker 3 00:33:33 So much. <laugh> it works.
Speaker 1 00:33:35 Sure. Um, if they get any type of certificate or anything from you that legitimizes that this is a service dog.
Speaker 4 00:33:45 Yeah. So they do get a public access, um, certifications. Um, so that they, um, public access card that allows them to be, have that dog with, in our case Blue Coat, um, red Coat, blue Coat, um, blue Coat out in public. Um, and the, we do, um, move that dog, you know, under their care, under their name.
Speaker 3 00:34:13 Same, um, we, we have an ID essentially a certificate and we just, you probably did two, just switched over to a digital ID through the international organization, which is wonderful cuz it's always on your phone now. Um, yeah. So that's, that's essentially what
Speaker 4 00:34:29 They get and we continue throughout the life of the dog to do public access testing. Even with when the dog is placed. We're very involved with the dog even after it goes to the graduate in what the dog is doing, the health of the dog tweaking any, um, um, cues that need to happen. But they do have to do, and I'm gonna forget how often and by any of my staff is listening, they're going, but they do have to get re-certified with that public access. Um, every, I don't know if it's yearly, but it's certainly, um, they have to renew that.
Speaker 3 00:35:04 Yep. Same, you're
Speaker 1 00:35:06 You're saying the staff does, or the end user does
Speaker 4 00:35:09 They have to take a public access test through us?
Speaker 3 00:35:12 The client does. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:35:13 The client. Okay. The
Speaker 0 00:35:14 End user. Yep.
Speaker 1 00:35:14 Interesting. That's interesting. So,
Speaker 0 00:35:18 Well this would
Speaker 1 00:35:20 Go ahead, uh,
Speaker 0 00:35:23 Go with this certificate. Are they running into problems like flying and, cuz I know we, I have had some issues, you know, the paperwork to fly with your service dog and all that.
Speaker 4 00:35:40 Hey, go
Speaker 3 00:35:41 Ahead. Um, I was just gonna say, I mean, yes, I think there, there obviously you've maybe had some experience with that and, um, I'm part of a committee through Assistance Dogs International, which we are both, both organizations are members of. Um, when, where we've been working to try to um, uh, make all the application processes across the airlines the same. So once
Speaker 1 00:36:04 You do it once you're working on,
Speaker 3 00:36:06 Well we're, we're working on it, but it's easier said than done because understandably every, you know, every company's gonna want to have their own little twist on things. But, but that's the ultimate goal. Um, there was also this same committee was also a big push to, um, limit what, what airlines have to do with respect to service animals versus emotional support animals. Cuz people were bringing their emotional support birds on, and
Speaker 1 00:36:32 That's don't get us started, that's
Speaker 3 00:36:34 Done. That muddied
Speaker 4 00:36:37 The waters and it made the, you know, the red tape harder.
Speaker 1 00:36:40 That's right. For
Speaker 4 00:36:41 Our certified assistance dogs.
Speaker 1 00:36:44 I still feel that emotional support dogs muddy the
Speaker 3 00:36:48 Waters. I think they do sometimes. I think
Speaker 1 00:36:50 That's right. I think they do a lot of times. But, but we can <laugh> that's a whole nother shit. Um, yeah, I'm very, but
Speaker 4 00:36:57 It's important to understand the difference. Yes. And it's important for the community to understand the difference and it's important for our stores and our vendors and our public spaces to understand the difference, um, between, um, you know, the law, um, and 80, you know, 88 requirements and laws and what's okay and what's not okay. And, you know, not to turn people away. Um,
Speaker 1 00:37:24 It, it is unfortunate. I feel that the GP general public is only allowed to ask two questions. I actually would welcome some amount of idea that they did understand that this is a service dog. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because it really gets difficult when Fifi pops out of the purse <laugh> Yeah. <laugh> and, um, you know, starts going crazy or doing whatever. Um, and, and then I'm ha having to say she shouldn't be here. Yeah. Um, so it does get difficult and I feel like it, it, it spoils it in a way. Um, and it makes it harder for the the store owners because they are afraid to ask anything. Right. Because they're afraid of getting in trouble, in trouble.
Speaker 3 00:38:15 I think that's interesting that you as someone with a, with a service dog or a guide dog, that, that your preference would be that people could ask more questions just to make it more clear what really is a service dog versus otherwise.
Speaker 1 00:38:29 So I was talking to Elisa earlier and um, I, people sometimes call me a cynic and I try to say that I'm a realist, <laugh> <laugh>, but I, I have an ID for my dog. I'm okay if somebody says C, would you mind if I looked at your dog's id? And that is fine. Yeah. I dogs if that would keep all the other wishers that I could have my buddy with me out. Yeah. That would be so more than worth it to me. Yeah. So it is not about, to me, it's not about an invasion of privacy, it's not about a none of your business. It's about making things clear and safe so people and safe for you. It's about education. Yes, that too.
Speaker 4 00:39:13 It's about education. It's about, you know, being able to have shows like this and being able for, you know, people like Jeff and I to go around and really educate the public Right. So that there is an understanding and there's a place, there's a place for an emotional support animal and, you know, that's, that's fine. But there is a difference and um, you know, the, the importance of that difference I guess is important. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 00:39:42 <affirmative>, can you talk about how people can get involved with your web, um, with your organization and, and maybe the website?
Speaker 4 00:39:50 Sure, go ahead. Um, lots of ways to get in and it is two and a half years is a long time, but I'll always remember I went out with one of our foster home trainers on my second or third day and I did say, how do you do it? And she's on her fourth dog and she said, her mantra is every day I want the dog, but someone else needs the dog. Aw. And I remember that every day. And when we coach our foster home trainers into making that decision, um, we try to help them remember
Speaker 1 00:40:19 That. And uh, for anybody who's listening and who says, I don't know if I could do that, remember that every per, you know, that's one dog you place with somebody who's really getting what they need, then you can do another one Absolutely. Knowing you and you can love that one. And I, I don't know, it seems like I I sometimes think that that in a way is easier than watching them die. Right.
Speaker 4 00:40:42 Every two and a half years. I call it a car lease that used to too, to get a puppy every two and a half years. <laugh> That's
Speaker 3 00:40:50 Funny. I do hear that from volunteers a lot cuz I'll, I'll ask, it's the same question. You know how that's pretty hard to bring the dog back right? Because it's a tough day. Yeah. But they say then, then I go to graduation Yeah. And I meet the person's life that I helped change. Right. And I say, I gotta do this again. Um, so it's it's pretty cool. They're special people.
Speaker 4 00:41:07 They are special people. Um, selfless is the way, you know, like I said at the beginning, I've been in the non-profit world for 30 years. I've worked with a lot of volunteers. This is the most selfless group of volunteers that I've ever encountered in my career.
Speaker 1 00:41:23 I wonder, um, I am curious to know, at least with my school, there are some things that they ask the puppy razors to kind of pay attention to and to discourage because, you know, whatever your d the dog does, be it bad or good, we get stuck with that <laugh> Yes. At the end. So I, I always tell anybody I talk with, who's gonna raise one for guiding, please, please, please follow the rules mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because whatever you don't follow, I'm stuck with. That's
Speaker 4 00:41:56 A great message to
Speaker 1 00:41:57 Put out there. Yeah. Um, I wonder are there anything that you encourage people to, to discourage the dog to do? For instance, we generally don't like our dogs on furniture. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. That's
Speaker 4 00:42:10 Probably rule
Speaker 1 00:42:10 One. Yes. What if you, if you as an owner decide the end user, you're gonna break that, that's your deal. But Right. Um, you don't know who, you know, the person that you're giving that dog to. You don't know what they, their living circumstances and they may not be able to have that happen or may not want that to happen. All right.
Speaker 3 00:42:32 Right. Yeah. Those are probably very similar. That they're are pretty strict rules about that. Whether it's, you know, dogs cannot be on when you are, when you are either puppy sitting or raising, they can't be on the furniture because that might be the case with the graduate in the end. They don't get to sleep in the bed. They have to be in their kennel whenever you are not home or when you're sleeping. And again, your, your graduate in the end might not wanna do any of those things and they might be perfectly comfortable with the dog sleeping with them, but that's an easy problem to fix. That's the other way around is
Speaker 1 00:43:03 If possible, that's harder. Yeah. Careful for the mic. <laugh>. Sorry about that. Um, I can't, I'm gonna turn you off. <laugh>. Um, I yeah. That, that's their call and what they do. Right. Um, it it, I think that the other thing is car seats, right? So I, I, I know Charlene does some of it, but I take a lot of cabs. We have enough drivers who are very sensitive to my dog getting on their seat. And actually the ADA does state four on the floor. And, um, so I'm wondering, do you guys, is that anywhere in your
Speaker 4 00:43:43 Yeah, we train for, you know, that, especially with travel in the car, um, we have also a really great program with, uh, Minneapolis St. Paul Airport, um, to teach those skills and boarding a plane and being on a plane. Um, so yeah, those rules are, like Jeff said, easier to break the rule at the end. Yes. Um, than have to train for the rule at
Speaker 3 00:44:07 The end. Alisa mentioned the flight to nowhere, which is Ms. P, which is, it's absolutely amazing. Amazing. And there is no other airport in the United States that that does it to the degree that MSP does. We actually get to, to clients and train, uh, trainers. Volunteers get to bring the dogs in, they go through security, they get on the tram, they get on an, an actual in inside an actual plane. Um, and get under the seat and just get practice at that. Really. Cause it's a scary thing for a
Speaker 4 00:44:38 Dog. Really? Yeah. It's really unbelievable. It was really, um, the person who is in charge of inclusivity at, um, at Minneapolis St. Paul Airport wants to be the mo and I'm gonna forget his name and that is so terrible.
Speaker 1 00:44:50 That's
Speaker 4 00:44:51 Cool. But he wants, um, this our airport to be the most inclusive airport in the country. Um, and this was one of his projects to take an old, um, Delta plane. They brought it mm-hmm. <affirmative> from, it wasn't here. They brought it from somewhere, carved it out so that it can be a training plane. And I know they also do it. I mean, they do it with our dogs, but they also do it, um, for kids with autism who might need to practice getting on a flight, you know, a week before their flight so that they really understand the order of things. It is an incredible service that our, um, our airport does for our community.
Speaker 1 00:45:25 And how many times does that, like in any particular dog get to go through that?
Speaker 3 00:45:31 I think ours just do it once. Generally. You could probably do it more than once. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:45:35 I mean we, I I could see the benefit of that. Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:45:37 I know our tr one of our trainers sets it up once a month on a Saturday and I think, you know, to get all our classes through, cuz we have about 65 70 dogs in training at any given time. So, um, and I think, I'm not sure that she does it by class. I think she does it by availability. So I think you don't have to be in the class to go on that day. Um, but at least to do it once.
Speaker 1 00:46:01 Well, that's cool. You're saying our airport is the only one that does that?
Speaker 3 00:46:06 Not the only one, but they certainly to that do it. Yeah. They, they do it better than anyone else. Anyone else?
Speaker 1 00:46:10 Uh, well of course, you know, <laugh>
Speaker 4 00:46:13 Of course we are a very generous, um, state.
Speaker 1 00:46:16 We are, you know, we're talking about dogs, so <laugh>, I I'm kind of jealous. I, I I realize that that must be such a, a good way to get funds. I think we're gonna adopt like a pet lemur or something maybe. We'll, <laugh>
Speaker 3 00:46:29 That's a great
Speaker 1 00:46:30 Idea. I'll tell they should do that. <laugh>. Um, I'm wondering, and what happens, and we deal with this too, um, what happens when your dog retires? Do you, are they allowed to keep them and and still have another, uh, dog that will be in their working time? Do they have to give them up? How do you work with that?
Speaker 3 00:46:53 I can start. Yeah. I mean, we probably do it the same way I'm guessing, but yes, they can absolutely keep them. And we transfer ownership after a year if the client chooses to do that. So they would own the dog at that point. Um, there are some situations though where it probably wouldn't work because the, the, the existing dog, it might be time for that dog to retire, but he or she is not ready to retire. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so having the new dog come in, dogs
Speaker 1 00:47:17 Have a tendency, tendency to tell you if
Speaker 3 00:47:18 They can retire or, or not <laugh>. So I mean, we, we would, if they wanted to, if the client wanted to keep the dog who was retired, we would have to do some work to make sure it was going to practically work. Um, if the dog passes away, which sometimes happens, obviously, um, for us at least that that client moves to the top of the list for a
Speaker 4 00:47:36 Successor. Same. We have a successor dog. Yep.
Speaker 1 00:47:40 And I don't think we mentioned like what types, what breeds of dogs you guys use?
Speaker 3 00:47:47 Um, go ahead. You
Speaker 4 00:47:48 Can start. So we use goldens and labs. Um, that's what we breed. We breed goldens and labs. Um, some people ask why, um, well goldens and labs are retrievers. Um, so a lot of the work we need them to do is retrieving And, um, this part, some people don't like to hear this, but it is the truth. Goldens and labs have a greater ability to transfer affection than some believe that some breeds. I believe that owners don't wanna hear that, but anyone who's gonna pet them and feed them and treat them Yep. And love them, they're able to move that affection and that makes the whole process this,
Speaker 1 00:48:24 This is why I'm a shepherd girl. Yes. <laugh>. So do do you ever
Speaker 4 00:48:28 Do a cross? We do not at helping p okay.
Speaker 3 00:48:31 We, we do, um, we, so all of our breeding program is labs or lab mixes. So we do some, um, lab, a lot of lab golden mixes. We, we've done a few lab, uh, Newfoundland mixes and a couple others. And then we, well we don't breed standard poodles. We do used standard poodles for clients that have allergies. Right. Because of course, labs and goldens, um, shed something fierce and poodles don't. And so that's
Speaker 1 00:48:56 Ums helpful. Are you doing thinking of doing anything with that whole doodle thing?
Speaker 3 00:49:00 Probably not <laugh>, they probably don't have quite the right temper. Temperament. Temperament, I'm guessing. Yes. Yeah. And you know, the, the Elisa mentioned the transfer of affection. That is a really important part of, of our breeding program because yeah, that's, both of those dogs are good at that. And that's what you want, you know, if, if, if a dog has spent two and a half years with a family,
Speaker 1 00:49:21 That's true.
Speaker 3 00:49:22 And that's true. A lot of dogs wouldn't be able to to handle that cope.
Speaker 1 00:49:26 And like ours would, our school would tell us, you gotta remember that dogs have like three big bonds. They break, they break the bond with their mother, they break the bond with their puppy razor, and then if you give them up, they break the bond with you. So the That's true. I, I get that. Uh, real quick, what would you guys like to see for the future of your organizations besides that they go on forever? <laugh>.
Speaker 4 00:49:53 Um, going on forever is great. Um, you know, for us, um, we're ready to grow. We're ready to, you know, look into bigger sites, um, be able to bring in more dogs. My impact, uh, my statement with my staff is always, um, more dogs, more impact. So the ability to grow, the ability to have space, you know, to train more dogs, to bring in more trainers, to have more staff. Um, that, that's my goal. I I, we wanna graduate more dogs. We wanna change more lives. Um, and I see helping pause, we're on the brink of that. Um, that that's the next phase for us. The next three to five years. I think we're gonna see, um, a bigger helping pause. And I'm really excited about that, Jeff.
Speaker 3 00:50:37 I'd say the same thing. And, and there's room for both of us to grow because there's so much need out there. So I, I would love to see both of our organizations grow a hundred
Speaker 4 00:50:44 Percent and we do different
Speaker 3 00:50:45 Things. We do. Um, so we're looking at, we, we will probably graduate 52 teams this year and we're looking at where we wanna be in 2030, which will be some number larger than that. And then also probably either build or buy a second building so we can start wing in-house rather than solely using volunteers with for that.
Speaker 1 00:51:04 Well, we really do appreciate you guys coming on. It's, it's always nice to have furry friendly animal friends here, <laugh>, <laugh> and, uh, friends of furry friendly animals. Uh, so thank you. And I know there's a huge need for, and if it's anything like our schools, you guys have a, a fairly large line waiting to be served. So thank
Speaker 4 00:51:28 Us for giving us the time. This was really important. Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate being
Speaker 1 00:51:31 Here. Can you give your websites one more time, Jeff, I don't think you gave
Speaker 3 00:51:34 Yours. Can do canines.org,
Speaker 4 00:51:36 Helping pause.org.
Speaker 1 00:51:38 Ah, see, easy peasy, easy pey. And people can call and talk to you guys if they want, or emails. Of course.
Speaker 4 00:51:44 Absolutely. Call away emails. Go on Facebook and send us a message. And we're all of all of that too. If you could follow us on Facebook, on Instagram, on all the things that, um, I'm too old to understand <laugh>, but that my marketing guy does a great job with.
Speaker 3 00:52:00 Well, and, and I encourage if somebody is or knows somebody who they think might be helped by an assistance dog call and just ask. I absolutely. I think either organization is happy to talk with you about that. A lot of people don't think they would qualify mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And they would and the dog could change their life.
Speaker 4 00:52:16 Well, a lot of people think they
Speaker 3 00:52:18 Have to pay a lot of money. Right? And that's not true of either of our
Speaker 4 00:52:21 Organization. There's some mysteries about it. So we'll help you unsolved, help you solve those mysteries by just giving us a call.
Speaker 1 00:52:27 Thanks for being on guys. Thank
Speaker 4 00:52:28 You. Night. Thank you.
Speaker 1 00:52:30 This has been disability and progress.
Speaker 1 00:52:33 The views expressed on the show are not necessarily those of K F A I or its board of directors. My name is Sam, I'm the host of the show. I almost said it with Charlene. Well, I'm really having issues tonight. Charlene Dolls. My research woman. Erin is Mike Podcaster. Um, I wanna encourage you, if you want to be on the listener member support list to give us your name and we will announce it. Tonight's was Kurt Johnson from Battle Lake, Minnesota. This is KFI I, 90.3 fm, Minneapolis and kfi i.org g. Our email is Disability and progress. Sam jasmine.com. Thanks so much for listening. See ya.
Speaker 5 00:53:25 Hey.
