Speaker 1 00:00:05 Hi, this is Sam Jasmine from disability and progress here at camp VI. We are truly here for you. In fact, we haven't left you just like you haven't left us. So keep this close. We will stay here and please give us your support by going to kfb.org, a secure website and donating what you can. This is KPI 90.3, FM Minneapolis, and KFA dot O R G. This is disability and progress. We bring you insights into ideas about and discussions on disability topics. My name is Sam I'm. The host of this show. Charlene doll is my research person, Mason Butler engineers. This episode tonight, we are speaking with Peter <inaudible>. Peter is a brand ambassador of blindness products for Humanware, and he will be talking about Humanware and their products and what they're up to currently. And so good evening.
Speaker 0 00:01:35 Thank you so much for having me. Thank you
Speaker 1 00:01:37 So much for coming on all the way from, is it Chicago?
Speaker 0 00:01:42 I am in Chicago. It is mighty, mighty warm. It is a hot July, so hopefully we can, uh, keep it, keep it warm. I'm not saying I want winter. I know you're up in Minneapolis. I know it gets cold. I'm gonna keep the summer.
Speaker 1 00:01:57 Um, so Peter, I know you you've done a lot with Humanware, but I want to start by talking about you because I really know so little about you in general and you are, you, you are blind,
Speaker 0 00:02:14 So I'm yeah, so I'm, I'm totally blind. Uh, I have been with Humanware for about five years, but before that I was at the Chicago lighthouse for the blind and never thought I would work in blindness technology, but I'm, I'm born and raised in Chicago. Um, I have Leber's congenital amaurosis, so I have a genetic, um, condition, which is basically a deterioration of the rod and cone cells at the back of the eye. So I've been blind since about, you know, since birth really, but I have light perception, so I've have no usable vision, but, uh, genetic. And so I've been a braille reader and a tech, really a technology user for a long, long, long, long time. And, uh, that's how I kind of ended up in the role that I'm in today.
Speaker 1 00:02:55 What did you do at the lighthouse? When I was the Chicago lighthouse
Speaker 0 00:03:00 Here in Chicago, they were working on working on bringing in call centers. So I worked in a number of call centers, um, which really, again, it was an experience on getting used to multitasking, you know, working with a lot of script reading, um, scheduling appointments, doing a lot of that, but I found myself gravitating toward and shifting toward technology while I was there. So I was fortunate enough to land, um, a position as an assistive technology specialist at the Chicago lighthouse, working with doing, uh, tech technology assessments and rehabilitation, um, sorts of assessments and trainings. And that's kind of where I ended up, but I really worked in several different departments in there, you know, starting as an intern all the way up through various call centers and, and ended up in, in blindness stack.
Speaker 1 00:03:49 So you have really had a lot of experience with a lot of different technologies.
Speaker 0 00:03:54 I have, you know, I, I, uh, never thought I really never thought I would work in technology. Um, I'm a user, I'm not a programmer, I'm not a coder. Um, what it comes down to for me is I love teaching and I love working with people. So, you know, I'd say, well until the last four months, every year, I'm on the road, about 40 to 43 weeks a year with human wear. And I do lots of training primarily in education. So working with lots of, uh, kiddos, lots of young, you know, young adults and things, and then also working in rehab. So I love going into the VA or working with seniors or people who are newer division loss, um, and, and just, just hanging out, helping them learn and not talking at them, but talking with them and not showing somebody necessarily how to do something, but why, why are they doing it the way they are, right? Why are we not just push this button twice? Or this is a shortcut we want to learn, uh, to better access a website, but why are we using that shortcut so that we can use the, you know, the, the methods somewhere else. And I think that's really important. And so I, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else. I absolutely love what I do. And it's been a, it's been a good run and I get to play with toys all day long.
Speaker 1 00:05:09 And how did you, how did you get your introduction to human? Where, how did you actually get into that?
Speaker 0 00:05:14 So it was, um, you know, I had been working at the Chicago lighthouse and, uh, at the time, um, Dominic Gagliano, who was my old boss who you probably worked with back in the day, Dominick lived in Chicago and happened to, we would see each other randomly just kind of, you know, here and there, around here, we were selling Humanware products at the lighthouse, but there was an opening. And he had asked me if I'd like to help out at a conference just as a, just, they really needed someone to help at a conference. Little did I know that when I went to that conference, I had to do a presentation. I didn't know this. And I kind of showed up and Dominic style. I got thrown into the, thrown into the presentation spot, which was great. I was, and they were just, you know, I, I, I made it fun and we had a great time in the presentation with the big room, you know, big old room of people.
Speaker 0 00:06:03 So when, when that was kind of seen, then it was, the job was offered to me and I've really grown a lot of human where now I manage a team of product specialists. So I have two employees that I manage one out in Baltimore, one out in the Bay area, Joel and Rachel, who are fantastic. And so I call us the B team. We're the blind team. We are the blindness product specialists. And we work with all of the braille and blindness products and really helping and supporting that high level support for our users, for our sales reps to do trainings and all of that. So it's, it's really grown into a neat position and I'm, I'm very closely tied in, which is great with, with product management, product development. And then also I'm still very front facing it to work with people I get to present. I get to come and do radio shows, you know, um, which I love, I love just being a part of that and doing live events in person is preferred. But, uh, as of right now, lots and lots of video conferencing and zooming. So
Speaker 1 00:07:04 Can we just step back a minute and give people who don't know, because they're, this is a global station now. And so we are all over some of the real techie people who have disabilities may understand who human, where it is, but why don't you tell the rest of the people who don't know who Humanware is, what they are
Speaker 0 00:07:24 Absolutely. So Humanware is a company. We are a software and hardware manufacturer. We make products for people who are blind and visually impaired. So we will run the gamut from braille products, which is really my forte, as someone who is totally blind in a braille reader, we make lots of braille products. We also make products for people who have low vision or who are newer division loss, who may be going through macular degeneration or, or, you know, hereditary, low vision, any, anything like that. Stargardt's lots of conditions. And also we make speech products that help with people, you know, who, who have print reading disabilities. So we do speech products, um, that will help read the newspaper or consume audio books and things as well as GPS. So we, we, you know, our mission is to help anybody with any level of vision loss, achieve inclusion and kind of work through tasks and daily life, meaning accessing information. Um, we believe in accessing information through braille, through speech and through low-vision AIDS, um, and really it, it comes down to today combining traditional, you know, mainstream technology and adding that assistive side of things that assistive technology component. So we're seeing a blending of both, which is very cool. And so taking that mainstream device and making it more accessible and not only accessible, but more usable. And that's really what, what we're going for. So we make a wide variety of products for all ranges of vision.
Speaker 1 00:08:56 And I think sometimes I think kind of what's happening here. What I see is that it used to be that it was a very, like, I hate to use the word like this, but quote, blind product, you know, really had to specialize and know what to do here now as white. And now they're over other cited applications that you can open up and everyone can see if you want them to or not.
Speaker 0 00:09:24 Right. And, and that's really what we're seeing, even when I go into a school today. And I, I have, we have a product called the braille note touch plus, which is our flagship product. And the product has, it is a fully Google certified braille tablet. And what makes that important is I can walk into a school and an it professional can be, they're saying, and you know, we're working with the, with the teacher, with the student and the it person. And I can say, Hey, you know, can we get this on your network? Or can we install some statistic certificates on this device? And I can hand the it person, a tablet that is built for a blind person, but I can turn off accessibility and boom, it just becomes a normal tablet and there's no intimidation factor. Whereas before I would show up with an older, you know, as you set up a blindness product or a blind, specific sort of product, and the it person would look at it and be like, Oh my gosh, what is that? I don't know,
Speaker 1 00:10:15 Kind of a lot of jaw dropping
Speaker 0 00:10:17 Like, wow. Right. And we did that for low vision as well. So we have low vision devices that are customized tablets that can access all your mainstream applications, but are also built in, you know, have built in distance, viewing near viewing optical character recognition to read printed text and blow it up and may, you know, not distort the font. So, but it looks like any other tablet that you might be using that you got at best buy or on Amazon or somewhere. So it really is, is a neat time to be in this space and see how we're taking what is out there and trying to improve it, and really bring in that, in that inclusion piece,
Speaker 1 00:10:59 I need to take just a short station break.
Speaker 0 00:11:01 KPI has a button on my car, radio dial. It's also on my clock radio. I still have a clock radio. It goes up at 6:00 AM, five days a week. So I hear the morning show every day with Barb and Mason are 41 years
Speaker 1 00:11:18 Just getting in and getting a degree
Speaker 0 00:11:21 Computer to run right this morning. I wouldn't say it's my favorite music, but it's music I've never heard before. And I love that now it's on, not everything on here is my favorite. It's not supposed to be, it's supposed to be something that engages me in a new direction. KPI is valuable to the community and it's valuable to me. And it's valuable to people. I know my name, Jeremy Nichols, and I'm a long time volunteer at cafe <inaudible>
Speaker 1 00:12:04 And we're back. And you're listening to KFI 90.3 FM Minneapolis. And KFA that O R G we're speaking with Peter <inaudible>. Peter is a brand ambassador. I'll get this right. The brand ambassador of blindness products for human.
Speaker 0 00:12:21 It's an interesting title. Believe me, everyone. I've been called many different things in terms of brand and grand and blind ambassador. It's all good. It's a, it's a different sort of title in the field. So
Speaker 1 00:12:33 I presume the, the idea of what a blind ambassador of, of products person does is exactly what you said, giving the presentations, um, going into all these rehab places when you can and VA's and schools, and just basically showing
Speaker 0 00:12:53 Exactly it's really meant. What, what I, what I like to say is, you know, what is meant to train the trainer. Um, I cannot go into a school and work with a user or go into someone's home and work with a user every single day. But what I can do is I can work with the T the teachers of the visually impaired or the rehab agency or the, uh, the independent 80 trainer or the, or the, the person at the VA. And I can train that individual or present to those groups present and help them understand ways of using our products. And that's really my role. And then it's also to create materials. So we've launched an application called HW buddy, and it's meant to put all of our support. HW, standing for human were meant to put all of our support in one spot.
Speaker 0 00:13:39 So again, having a creating resources, I believe very much in providing the tools. Um, so creating videos, creating text, instruction, materials, um, doing live webinars. I know you've attended some of my Humanware live sessions and are just trying to do as much of that as I can. And I, I really find that the more material we can create in addition to all the training and the in person sessions and one-on-ones, and I love running around. But, uh, I, I believe in just creating that material and that's really what the, what the role kind of entails. It's just being kind of, uh, ubiquitous with the, with resources and running around and, and providing information.
Speaker 1 00:14:23 How many different products does Humanware do?
Speaker 0 00:14:27 So we have a wide range of products. I mean, when, when you talk about the specific number it's about, I'd say 10 or less sort of products, per se, in the blindness space, you know, we have products that are full on standalone braille Googled tablets. So the braille note touch, plus we also create braille displays, which are refreshable braille input and output devices that work with smartphones or computers with screen readers. So Mac and windows. So, you know, that's about three of three in that portfolio. And then we do low vision products. So we have products that are meant for a handheld, you know, magnification. So your portable five or eight inch for spot reading for reading a recipe or a newspaper just close up. Um, we also have standalone sort of tablet based products, so that the connect 12, which I had mentioned earlier.
Speaker 0 00:15:20 So that's sort of that mid level, low vision product meant for accessing apps and reading, you know, distance and close up material. Then the final category of that, the low vision is the, I call it, I like to call it, luggable sort of not quite portable, but the foldable CCTV. So being able to beat your recipes, read your books, um, you know, being able to, there are versions of that, that can access all of that mainstream content as well. So that's kind of the low vision space, again, kind of a three to five product portfolio there. And then the Victor reader line of products, which is our most popular product. Everybody loves their Victor readers. And I am absolutely included. The Victor reader really is at its most basic sort of level of understanding. It is, it is a Kindle or a nook or a digital book player for somebody who is blind or visually impaired.
Speaker 0 00:16:14 There is no screen, there is no braille, it is auditory. And it allows us to access podcasts, internet, radio, um, you know, books from the national library service from libraries, online libraries, such as Bookshare or, uh, newspapers from NFB newsline. So it really is a way to consume digital content. Uh, and that is absolutely, I mean, worldwide. We have about 100,000 users of the Victor reader products. And for us, that is a huge number. It is true pool and there, there is no shortage. Uh, I've used the product since I was in college and I wouldn't have made it through college without one. And, you know, we've, we've taken that a next level and adding GPS to the product, which we're really excited about and what we're doing in that space, but it, it really is, um, kind of its own subset of digital talking book players.
Speaker 0 00:17:07 And so that, that's kind of where we are in terms of the, the product range, but it's not a lot, you know, not a wide variety of products, but it does run that, that entire spectrum of vision loss all the way from somebody who is a braille reader and wants to work independently in the connected world, uh, somebody who is newer division loss and just wants to read their knitting patterns or maybe wants to watch videos of their grandkids. Uh, and then also, you know, the, the, the person who is newer division Lawson and does not read braille, or does not have any usable vision, but wants to read books or keep up with the news or listen to a radio station somewhere around the world. Like KFA right. So it's a, it's very, very cool. And we, we, we definitely find a lot of traction in the spaces that we create products for.
Speaker 1 00:17:56 And I do want to step back again and let people know, you know, you mentioned the CCTV and for those who don't know what that is, you know, that helps enlarge things. So as you said, you can read them. And I, I suspect a lot of people may have had some familiarity with them because they used to be,
Speaker 0 00:18:16 They were, uh, as my former boss, Tom Persky says they were, uh, you know, from the stone age, they actually were made of stone. They were so big, big tube TVs. You know, you could barely get a book underneath with a big X, Y table that would go in five different directions and you would have to move it all over it. And they've really changed.
Speaker 1 00:18:35 Yes. And you may be familiar because you may have known somebody who's elderly who had one, if people lose their vision a lot then, and, um, they may have had that or just somebody who was introduced to it and who had it in their dorm room or, uh, you know, for reading stuff. So just to let people know, are you required to know how to use all the products blindness or not?
Speaker 0 00:19:01 Well, I am not necessarily, um, uh, definitely the blindness products. I would find myself in a bit of a pickle if I was unable to use our blindness products, but, you know, so the braille and the, and the speech products, but I do, it's, it's very important to me. I am totally blind, but it's very important to give options and be knowledgeable. Um, not just even, not just on human word products. I mean, we all use iPhones. We all use various, uh, pieces of technology, whether it's a tablet or a computer, or, you know, so, so I try to know a little about a lot, which is very tough today as technology increases and changes so rapidly. But I also try to know enough about the low vision side of things to help, you know, make educated decisions, or because sometimes people want a braille product and it is not the right product for them.
Speaker 0 00:19:51 And I will strongly discourage that, Hey, it's very expensive. And B it's just not the right fit. And maybe a Victor reader stream of a very simple solution is what they're looking for. Or maybe a low vision handheld five-inch magnifier is going to help them for their, the task that they're trying to complete. So not required to know it all, but I try to know as much as I can about our low vision products, even though I'm not a user as possible to, to help, um, the sales team. And also just to help people understand kind of what is out there
Speaker 1 00:20:22 And who teaches you, what happens if you were stumbling on a product in your company who helps you with that?
Speaker 0 00:20:28 Well, we're, we're very fortunate because, uh, we have a great team of product managers. So I, you know, I, I am definitely a self learner. Um, you can ask my wife, if I can't get something to work, I'll just sit there for hours and hours and hours until I, uh, somehow make it happen. So I'm very much a self learner, but if, if I'm confused, I mean, there is nothing like the beautiful Google, right? We can always find solutions as somebody has always done it. Somebody has always done it first, right? So it's always nice to look for the resources. But when I worked with product management, I work with the research and development team here at Humanware. They're very, very good at helping, you know, all of us who work here, understand what it is we're trying to do and the product management teams.
Speaker 0 00:21:12 So we have a product manager for blindness or low vision and a new product manager for our Victor reader products. Uh, you know, we, we all work to, to make sure the content is so that the sales team understands or that anyone understands. But I think for myself, it's working with the, the, you know, the product management team and also being resourceful, all of us out anybody. Um, we can all work on a need to have good problem solving skills. I think problem solving always leads to independence as well. So I do a lot of problem solving on a daily basis.
Speaker 1 00:21:47 So if you had to pick the top two blind, this products and the top to low vision products and Humanware, what would they be?
Speaker 0 00:21:56 Well, I, I definitely would say the BrailleNote touch, plus it has certainly been a game changer in terms of accessing the connected classroom and the connected workplace. We know how important that is today. I mean, we're all working from home, almost all of us, or were, or were working in environments that were very connected to others, right? You and I are talking as though we're in the same room and we're a thousand miles apart. So it's, um, it, it really is, you know, something that I'm very proud of and proud to play a role in, uh, the umbrella touch plus allows that braille access to information, which is so important to us as blind people, because we need to develop good spelling and written communication skills. And we're often very poor spellers. Um, and, and I'm included in that because we ha we, we just don't read the world around us.
Speaker 0 00:22:46 We don't read science. We don't read t-shirts, we don't read as much as, as anyone else who is surrounded by prints, whether they realize it or not. Right. They're looking at their phone. They're looking at me, so exactly anything at all, right. You're surrounded by visual information. So the don't touch plus in terms of, you know, we're, we're very excited. We've worked in conjunction with the American printing house for the blind to create some new types of refreshable braille displays. Um, so we're excited for, for those products. And I think that will be a neat, you know, we have a product called the mantis, which is a full QWERTY keyboard with a braille display in it that is created by the American printing house, but we, we built it for them. So that would be a product we are very excited, um, for them to have, and for us to play a part in, because it's a, it's a new look at what a real display can be in terms of low vision, uh, you know, Sam, it, it really comes down to the same sort of element of, we want to give access to that textbook and print or to that recipe or to, um, you know, something that might be in the front of the room, but we really need to participate in the connected workplace or classrooms.
Speaker 0 00:23:49 So a product like the connect 12 or the reveal 16, I, and again, those are just sizes of screens. So 12 inch or 16 inch giving us access to Google drive access to, to the cloud and access to Chrome and any apps we may be using that we're already using on our iPhones or on different devices. Being able to combine that with the power of a dedicated, low vision solution is, is really neat. So I think the future of, of all of these products, regardless of whether it's human wear or another assistive technology company, is the integration between mainstream and assistive technology. Um, and, and building our products, you know, for a specific user in mind and helping that user kind of maximize the, the comp, uh, combining, uh, both mainstream and assistive technology.
Speaker 1 00:24:42 We need to take just another short station break and we'll be right back
Speaker 0 00:24:46 <inaudible>
Speaker 1 00:24:52 KPI. This is disability and progress. This is cafe on 90.3 FM, Minneapolis, and KVI that O R G we are speeding, speaking, and speeding, going fast with Peter to sec through, uh, with human, where, and he's the brand ambassador of blindness products, and we're talking about Humanware and all that they are. And, you know, Peter, I have like used in a lot of tech companies kind of come and go and be absorbed by other tech companies. And besides the idea of human work, changing names, which was a while back, yeah. They've kind of stood a little bit of test of time. And can you tell me what you think at least sets them apart from other tech companies?
Speaker 0 00:25:44 Sure. So it's interesting. And I have been with human wear for five years. Um, so five years next week, which is wild. Congratulations. I know I made it, I somehow made it. I'm still here. She'll hasn't told me to leave. Um, the th the interesting thing though, is we, we celebrated our 30th anniversary last year. So Humanware was 30 years old, um, which is in this sort of space is very amazing. And as you said, we've seen lots of changes in, um, you know, in this field of blindness technology, many companies have kind of swallowed up and Ben swallowed up and spit back out in different ways and what human, where I think it comes down to the leadership and the way that human, where reinvests in what it is that we do, the reason why, you know, why we are, where we are. It really comes down to the leadership that we have.
Speaker 0 00:26:35 We're controlled by SLR, which is a French company. Uh, it's a, they're a lens manufacturer, and they, and believe in us wholeheartedly. Um, they're not in it to spin us off or do anything like that. All of the kind of profit that we were able to absorb. We, we bring that back into developing new products. We don't live in one space for too long. Uh, we know the importance of doing that. And I really think that's where human, where has succeeded. We've always had that next product coming. We've had, we're on our fifth generation of the braille note, and, and that has kept us going, but in lots of other ways, we've, we've done things for the first time, the first Android, Google certified note taker, the first foldable connected CCTV, the first, uh, the Victor reader line of products. You know, we we've always been at that forefront of, in reading, engaging what the community needs and our, our parent company believes in us. And I, I think that's where we're very fortunate and, you know, in being set apart and we've, it's working, so hopefully we'll have another 30 years cause I don't feel like going anywhere. So, uh, I don't want to leave. So I'm hoping 30 years from now, I can say we've celebrated 60 years of human way.
Speaker 1 00:27:52 And how did they, how does human wear support their products and people with their products?
Speaker 0 00:27:59 So we have a wide range of support. We've create audio tutorials, we create video tutorials. Um, those can be found on our YouTube channel. Uh, we also do a lot of webinars. We are doing live webinars. We've done several. I think we're up to about 20 ish since March of 2020 called human where lives. So we've, we do lots of live webinars, but really the, our biggest success in the last several years on that front is the launching of the HW buddy application. And this is an iOS and Android app. So it's available on Apple and Android devices, and it is all of our support in one spot. It allows us to have our videos, our texts, you know, tutorials, all of that in one place, you can contact support directly from the app. You can favorite information, you can search the app for information.
Speaker 0 00:28:52 So if you're looking for, you know, instructions on how to spell, check on, on, on the braille note, touch Blas, or, uh, what is the battery life of the five inch handheld magnifier? All of that can be found in the HW buddy application. We also are going to add some pieces to that to allow users to track progress if you're a teacher. Um, but also we were able to send you notifications, should you choose to re to accept, we will be able to keep you up to date with what it is that we're doing in terms of webinars, in terms of new content being added. Um, when we have sessions at various conferences, all of that. So it is really neat to have our own app. Um, everyone says there's an app for that. I guess we can say that too, for human wear products, you know, which is pretty neat.
Speaker 0 00:29:38 So it's, uh, it's, it's been really cool and it is a lot of work to develop an application, um, and not, and I'm not smart enough to know how to build the app itself, but I've worked in, helped develop a lot of the contents in the app, and that is an undertaking. So it's, uh, it's pretty wild, but definitely we, we believe in supporting our users. And that is what my team does with product specialists. Um, it is what we have a great tech support team in place. I know, I know you've, you've been with us, you know, the texts I was with you for a couple of years, tech support you've rolled it. So, you know, we, we believe
Speaker 1 00:30:17 Certainly you deal with hundreds of people. So, um, I want to talk about, uh, you know, I know no takers, um, are big part of human where, and when I left him and where I did teaching, so I still was in the same, basically similar every night, I just taught tech, which is what I did before I came to human wear anyway. Um, so it gave me a, an, a different side of the coin to see when I was in Humanware. Uh, but one of the things that I constantly see with, you know, the people that suggest technology to people, as you know, is there beef with note takers? So I want to go down this road.
Speaker 0 00:31:04 I love it. You open it.
Speaker 1 00:31:06 It's all good. So I want to talk about the whole note taker versus computers. And my, my whole deal was to try to explain to them, well, they really weren't, um, the same for before, but there were certainly reasons for note takers, um, that I used to fight for. But I think there, the whole deal about note takers and computers is changing. And so I'd like you to kind of give an idea of somebody says, you know, Peter, why should I get a braille note touch, especially if they're coming in they're college bound and they're blind. And they're like, you know, I could go get a laptop. Why should I do a braille touch? So let's go down that alley.
Speaker 0 00:31:49 I love it. I love the road. And, and I am a, I wear a human wear hat, but I'm a blind person. I'm a totally blind braille reader first and foremost. And I, I believe in putting tools in our tool box, we have to 100%, without a doubt, have to have knowledge of the computer of, of, of, you know, screen readers and how to use windows. And we have to do that. The note taker, it still serves an integral sort of purpose in our journey and in our independence, because what it does is it gives us a braille first or a braille centric way to work with creating and consuming information. More importantly, it gives us a way as I, as I mentioned before, to read the world around us when we use our iPhone. And it's very, very unfortunate because I receive lots of emails and I put them in my presentations from time to time, um, that are just very so poorly written. And I, and I feel terrible because not, not, I understand why. I mean, I, I know why they're maybe dictated or why the spellings are wrong, but I am not somebody looking at a resume, um, trying to hire an employee if I were, and I see these emails, or I were to get this, it would tell me right away that it would just go to the, to the bottom of the
Speaker 2 00:33:06 Right. And it's not up to speed there's anybody else that would walk into that job,
Speaker 0 00:33:12 Braille is such a crucial part of what we do and what we believe in now. Yes, we can use braille with mainstream products. So, and I use it a lot with, with iPhones and with, with screen readers, but you have to have a very firm understanding of the screen reader itself to use braille properly. So if you don't know how to use the screen reader, that braille display is meaningless for you. Um, and, and with the braille note, what we're trying to do is trying to give a braille first way to get email, internet, word processing, all of that done. And then we certainly need to have knowledge and how do, how do we take it to the next level with the computer? The other thing that the note taker gives us that a computer does not today doesn't mean it won't as we move forward is a way to produce STEM content.
Speaker 0 00:34:00 And that is so important today, math and science, that is where the big time jobs will be. And we're able to create math in real time. So for my college professor, for my math teacher, who might not be braille knowledgeable, right, who doesn't know, nemesis doesn't know, UVB math, I am able to produce visual, perfectly represented visual math output. And that is something you cannot do on a computer. And it really is a challenge, um, because we want to work again, braille is our medium. So when I'm working in my braille math code, uh, being able to, to turn in my work at the same time as my peers, being able to, you know, show what I know or show my work is very important, because a lot of times when it comes to math, we keep so much in our head and we're very good at math.
Speaker 0 00:34:51 But when it comes to showing our work, it's where we hit an absolute roadblock to the mainstream professors. Be it chemistry, be it, um, algebra or trig or whatever it is. And I was there myself. It was, it was very challenging to keep up in the math or science fields, because we just were at a disconnect with getting information to our professors for feedback. So again, the note taker is not a blanket solution. It is not an end all be all. I would not say for every person that you have to have a real note touch plus in order to do your work, it's not true, but I will say that when you have a product like a BrailleNote touch plus combined, and as a part of your arsenal, your chances of being and gaining and retaining independence are, are much higher because you're working in a real first way and you're participating in reading the world around you. And then you also need to put other tools in that tool box. You have got to have knowledge of the QWERTY keyboard. You have got to have knowledge of a screen reader and of, of the internet. And it's, it's so crucial, but I know what you're saying. Cause I, I get this all the time.
Speaker 1 00:36:00 Oh yeah. I'm quite sure you do.
Speaker 0 00:36:02 Yup. I absolutely do.
Speaker 1 00:36:04 I understand the argument and whatnot, but I do. I can't emphasize that so many people are coming out of school now and not having the, the knowledge at their fingertips.
Speaker 0 00:36:20 Very unfortunate that we see many students today who do not know how to use any other products. And again, I, I, we can, we cannot, I always laugh because I'll say, well, it could, we could take this two ways. Number one, our product is so great that no one wants to use anything else, which I've certainly seen. And number two, it comes down to, what do we have time for in the school day? Think of an educator, think of a teacher of a, of a TVI, a teacher of the blind or visually impaired that teacher is teaching so much that teacher is teaching, um, access to and giving access to so much information. And technology is a small part of that. So, you know, that there, it lies with encouraging students, encouraging kiddos, children to have exposure to different types of technology, uh, keeping the door open to using tablets, using, you know, screen readers. I, I, I cannot stress enough and it is very intimidating again, but it has to be done. And, and also utilizing your braille specific products, your braille displays, your braille note taker, your braille note touch, you know, using that brownout touch plus to get work done is very important. So it just comes from exposure and trying to encourage others and everyone to use multiple tools. We all use multiple tools to get the job done.
Speaker 1 00:37:41 Yes. Well, and I don't want to date myself, so I'm only 29, you know, but I, but you know, I used to love books. I had braille in every class, every class. And sometimes even though I think when I got speech it's, it's so fabulous. There's you mean you can read faster. That part is true in many, many ways. Um, but I will say, I think that did as much harm because people got lazy and they depended on the speech so much, not everyone has good braille skills and not everyone even you uses it. You know, I understand the person that comes out and doesn't have, you know, isn't able to read braille for specific purposes, but there's too many that come out that could, but don't be,
Speaker 0 00:38:37 There are many studies. Um, and I, I put numbers in slides and things, but there are many studies that statistics show and it, and it's proven braille literacy leads to employment. It leads to independence and there are very high correlation between one's ability to use braille effectively, um, and, and, and, and have good employment or independence once that person is through secondary or high school or, or through college, you know, it, it really is there and there is no denying that. And I see it firsthand with the emails I receive and various things. Uh, I certainly know when somebody has good written communication skills, that that is usually usually a direct correlation with their ability to read braille and actually read the world around them. And that is very important. I'll set human wearing. It's important to me. And I think to a lot of blind people, uh, to keep braille alive and, and I think real is stronger than ever. The argument that braille is going away is, is completely false. We have more braille than we ever have had at any point in time, because you can actually read the New York times and braille right on your braille display. You never, would've been able to do that until about 10 years ago. So it's a very, very neat and, and we need to make sure that braille does not go anywhere and, you know, continues to be a part of the education and the continuum of what it is that we do.
Speaker 1 00:39:58 I do want to make one more point and then I'll get off this one. But, um, I, I, I, for one took a foreign language in high school and I, if you don't, I don't know what it is now, but it used to be, if you didn't take your foreign language in high school, you had to do it in college. Yeah. So one way or another, they're going to get you. Um, and I don't know how I could have done it without having it in braille, because it's so different knowing how to spell the words, as you said, and knowing how they're pronounced and that extra knowing how it's spelled and being able to read it is just one more thing than just hearing it in your ears. So, absolutely do want to encourage people that, um, you know, having that under your fingertips, you can see the accent marks and everything like that. Be it a note taker or a braille display. Um, I think it's, it's important. So, so there you go. Uh, I need to take one more quick station break. We'll be right back to new cafe, 90.3, FM, Minneapolis and kpi.org. My name is Sam. I'm the host of this show. This is disability and progress. We are speaking with Peter <inaudible>. Peter is a blind ambassador, a brand ambassador of blindness products. Sorry. That sounds really horrible.
Speaker 1 00:41:32 And we're about human where, um, he is blind, but that's,
Speaker 0 00:41:37 I am, I am the blind ambassador. I have some sort of a, a lot of weight on my shoulders. So I don't know if I need that responsibility, but being that the ambassador for all of the blinds, I definitely don't want that.
Speaker 1 00:41:52 So let's talk about conventions every year, you know, and, and this has been all across the board, I think with everyone's stuff, we are in a different time COVID time. Right. Um, so where people have been finding new and interesting ways to either they've canceled like humongous meetings or get togethers, or they found, um, different ways to do it. And, uh, whatever created zoom is really raking in the dough, right?
Speaker 0 00:42:25 Yes. They are big time, big time, big time results, right? Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:42:31 Yes. Um, so I wonder, you know, in, in our world, usually there's the ACB and NFB conventions where hundreds and hundreds of people gather. And at various States each year, they picked different States to have each of them in, and all the tech companies that are accessible, go to those States and show their wares. And this year that just didn't happen for very known reasons. However, they had zoom, um, conventions. That's what I'd call them. And can you talk a little bit about that and what that was like?
Speaker 0 00:43:15 Absolutely. You know, I thought that it would be, uh, I just thought it would be really, really hard to do. I'm not gonna lie. I think we all did. I think everyone thought that going into traditionally, as you said, there are thousands of blind people that come together at either of these conventions, the national Federation of the blind and the American council of the blind. Uh, I've been to several in many different places. And this year we were supposed to be in Chicago. I wouldn't have even had to go anywhere. I was going to be in my backyard for the American council of the blind. And the national Federation of the blind would have been in Houston. And when they canceled, it was there, there were two sides to it. So we talk about the glass half full or half empty, right? The first being, this is going to be, it has the potential to be the largest meeting of blind people ever travel together.
Speaker 0 00:44:04 Nobody has to travel. Right. And if there's one thing, and it's not about the orientation mobility, but it's very cost prohibitive to travel. So, you know, we, we, we thought that, and the other side of it was, Oh my gosh, how are you going to have an effective convention for blind people where nobody can touch anything? That's a challenge, you know, and I mean, even for myself, I have a very hard time. You can tell me everything about a product, but if can't pick it up, I don't know what it is. You know, I don't know what that product is or what it is you're even talking about. So it was a challenge for us as vendors to say, well, in sponsors, uh, what can we be doing and how will this work? And so we went into it, very unsure. Um, but we were reassured very much by both organizations, uh, spent a lot of time, a tremendous amount of time putting together these virtual conventions.
Speaker 0 00:44:56 And they were absolutely without a doubt, smashing successes. And I believe this is my personal opinion that moving forward, there will be a virtual component to these conventions moving forward. I'm not saying they will be virtual. I'm saying there will be a component of them. Cause we just heard the wonderful news that one of them will be in new Orleans next year, which really excites me because there's a place to go. You know, you go from the beginning of the Mississippi to the end, Sam, you could jump down to new Orleans, just take a boat all the way down that Mississippi river. Uh, but it really is something that we, we were, we were very pleased with. Um, the zoom meetings were run very professionally. There was a moderator in place. We had virtual booth presentations. We had the ability to stream various commercials of I radio streams.
Speaker 0 00:45:47 Um, we were able to set up dedicated web pages for attendees. The, there were applications involved, the crowd compass platform was utilized. Um, you know, it really was done so well, especially considering they had three months essentially of notice to say, take this event that has been going on for decades, that you've ran with like a well oiled machine, take this event and throw it together to a platform that many people had not used until March until April. So we were thrilled and, and I, I believe they were as well with the level of participation, um, in a session that we would normally have 30 or 40 people. We had 150, um, in a session where we might normally have 70 or 80 people. We had three hundreds. So the exposure for us as human wearing was great. Um, definitely led to conversations. It was not as personal as I like it. Cause I love standing at the table.
Speaker 3 00:46:45 I'm thinking to be said about that.
Speaker 0 00:46:49 A people person, I love being able to work with individuals. And so that wasn't there, but we weren't alone. Right. It was, it wasn't there for anybody. It wasn't there for any meetings. And so, but I think the way they did it, it really was very well done. And it spells out and lays a blueprint and a plan for doing this down the line. As I said, I believe this will be a component of future shows and probably not just in our field, not just in assistive technology, but I think all across the board, everyone is learning that virtual environments work. They aren't, shouldn't not be used exclusively because we are all zoomed fatigued. Um, we're all a little tired of it. You know, it gets a little old, but it definitely is something that can be used and is so nice to be in touch with people.
Speaker 0 00:47:39 Um, and even to further that, you know, we have an event called the braille challenge that is very, it's done through the braille Institute, which is a not-for-profit in California, that event, we were a big sponsor of and blind children participate from all across the country. And I just did a presentation for them yesterday because they had to move that event virtual, which is normally a big, big, real, huge, awesome banquet and presentation in person. And that was very well received virtually yesterday when I was doing some, some pre sort of webinars for them as well. So again, it's, it's, it's, it's big, as you said, big organizations, the little organizations, everyone is finding a way, you know, your favorite happy hour, um, everything's going to zoom or go into this format and we're finding that it does work.
Speaker 1 00:48:23 And I think it shows agility, you know, people can be agile and they can, they can do things in new ways.
Speaker 0 00:48:31 We can adapt, right? It's the name of the game we were going to find a way
Speaker 1 00:48:35 I will say though, I have been teaching over the phone for years and years and years, and I cannot tell you how much pushback I have gotten from counselors as far as, why would you want to do that? Why would you well, because there's so many reasons and it's true that there's some people who do better live, we'll sit, just say, you know, in person that has that tactile experience, but there's also other people who, for them, um, online or phone or whatever is just irreplaceable, they would never be able to have it otherwise. Or it wouldn't be the same where they couldn't have it as often, or they wouldn't, you know, there's so many other reasons I do want to talk though, the disadvantages, not being able to touch the product for those who cannot see it. Um, so how did you deal with that?
Speaker 0 00:49:25 You know, we, we, again, and, and there's no, there's no replacement for it. Um, it's like, it's like describing the smell of the cookies. You've just baked, right? Uh, that's a little tough, you can try and you can make people jealous or, uh, you know, tell them how good your cookies are going to taste and how good they smell. But, you know, it really was a challenge to help, especially when you have a new product, like a mantis or a product that has never been done before, and you're trying to help individuals understand what it feels like. You know, who've never felt it. And so lots and lots of comparisons, I think, uh, I was, I was joking and I was saying, how many more analogies can I come up with? You know, I was just starting to get creative and saying, alright, you know, uh, we have a wonder loaf of bread and we take, you know, and just trying to get, because it's very, very hard.
Speaker 0 00:50:09 I mean, we rely so heavily on touch and on acclimating ourselves to what's around us by feeling it, by touching it by walking it, you know, by experiencing, experiencing it. So it, it, uh, it was a challenge. I think we did. Okay. We certainly, you know, as human wherein and many of the companies were promoting, Hey, when you buy this product, you have 30 days to say, I don't want it. And that's really what we were starting to do a lot. And someone saying, yeah, I just, I would love to, to, to have one of these sort of try one of these, but I don't, you know, I don't know what it is. I don't want to buy one. So it would say, well, look, if you do, cause sometimes we're able to facilitate various ways of working with a dealer or working with, to get a demo or send a unit, but also you can purchase a unit and return it because that is in, in these trying times, it's the only way for us to help somebody actually get a product in their hand. Right. Um, and so we definitely had to get creative that's that is for certain,
Speaker 1 00:51:09 So you've mentioned it a couple of times now, the mantis, um, I presume that's the big product that human were unveiled each year. You guys tend to try to at least unveil a product or an upgrade or something. Can you talk, is there more that you unveiled this year?
Speaker 0 00:51:25 Yeah. So the big product we unveiled is the new 40 cell braille display called the that's, the new generation of the brilliant BI. Um, it will have Bluetooth 5.0. And again, now we're going to really nerd out Sam, you ready for this? So we're going to, we're going to take this to the, to the next level, uh, Bluetooth 5.0 USBC charging. It will have an onboard braille translator. It will have, you know, the ability to have an onboard editor. So being able to work with docx or RTF files, BRF all of those braille format of documents, connect to five devices simultaneously, and also have standalone wifi capability to connect to online services like Bookshare, NLS, Bard, and NFP, newsline, and others. So that was our big announcement. The mantis is a very unique product. That is, it is made. We, we built it, but it is, it is actually distributed and sold by the American printing house for the blind here in the United States.
Speaker 0 00:52:25 We do the international distribution of it. Humanware does, but in the United States, it is done through APH or the American printing house. It is a full QWERTY keyboard. So I talked a lot about having good keyboarding skills, which are so important, full QWERTY keyboard with function keys, um, a very, very well spaced keyboard about the size of what you would have on a Mac, for instance, with a 40 cell braille display built. And so the 40 cell braille display is across the bottom of the device. And that also has, you know, it has a note taker, a basic sort of editor in it. Um, the ability to work with online services, Bookshare and NFP newsline are on the device. We can also update it over wifi. So it does have wifi capability. And then it has, uh, the ability to connect to five devices via Bluetooth and also one via USB.
Speaker 0 00:53:17 And it has onboard memory and all of that. So the two, those are kind of the flavors. There's also a smaller version called the chameleon. That is an American printing house product as well. That is not a QWERTY keyboard, but a braille keyboard, 20 cell version. So we, we had, uh, in terms of our own product, the brilliant 40, we are very excited about. We have some neat offers surrounding that and it's going to come by the end of the year. But the mantis is out today and American printing house is thrilled to have a neat brand new type of product that we're really hoping will, will take off. Um, and it's been, it's had a lot of buzz, a lot of buzz, so,
Speaker 1 00:53:55 Oh, is the mantis, uh, over an overlay over, um, prietary
Speaker 0 00:54:03 Yes, it is a proprietary product. That is, it is a standalone Bluetooth keyboard. So it works as a keyboard. Even without braille, you can just use it as a keyboard. You know, you connect it like you would connect to any keyboard to it, to an iPhone or to a PC. And then braille comes in when the screen reader is active. So it is a standalone Bluetooth keyboard with 40 cells of braille, and also is a standalone product in terms of having that onboard editor and calculator and online services and things like that. So there is wifi supported. It's a very, very, very cool device.
Speaker 1 00:54:37 And the chameleon would be like, it's smaller cousin.
Speaker 0 00:54:40 The chameleon is like it's little baby brother or sister, or just, you know, some younger, small member of the family. It is a 20 cell version, the same sort of features, but with 20 braille cells and a braille keyboard. So it's a very small, portable, versatile device. You have your editor, you have your, you know, all of that, um, calculator online access to NFP, newsline, and Bookshare, you know, just a very simple sort of empty cell braille product, no email, no email. You would do that through your screen reader or through your iPhone, or there's no apps like that on the device. The fire's reserved for online libraries, such as Bookshare or NFE newsline, and then the ability to work with updating the device over wifi,
Speaker 1 00:55:27 Uh, files though. Can you start?
Speaker 0 00:55:29 Yes. Yeah, yeah. So there's a USB slot as well as, uh, on the mantis, as well as an SD card slot. Same as on the chameleon, there is file management. Um, you can use it as a mass storage device. You can put files on it. There's a file manager, um, for, for that as well. Yes.
Speaker 1 00:55:47 Excellent. Um, so let's, I want to briefly talk about very briefly these, this whole, um, future of human, where, and how you're doing things now. Cause you're doing a lot of zoom and a lot of meetings via zoom. Um, all of your, you know, pretty much most, or if not, all of your stuff is being done via zoom. And so I'm wondering, do you think that even when things go back to quick quote, normal, I don't ever think things will be absolutely the same. They used to be again. Do you think, how will you think Humanware will change? Will they, will they ever go back to doing, having so much travel or do you think the zoom has replaced the whole workshop thing?
Speaker 0 00:56:38 You know, I, I love it. Uh, and so to answer your question, I think we've all learned, I was actually talking to my boss this morning about this. We've learned that we can certainly be successful in ways we never thought we could via zoom and via connected sort of, you know, Microsoft teams and all this video slash audio, um, virtual environments, however, when it comes down to it, I believe that when, when we were able to travel again, which, which we don't know when that will be, um, we will get back to a large majority of that in-person travel. It is so important for us to support our dealers, um, to go in and actually talk with, and again, getting it comes down to putting the product in someone's hands. If I'm trying to help you understand how to use it as a trainer or, or show it to your rehab agency, let's say a product like the mantis, you really need to feel it.
Speaker 0 00:57:33 You, you need to have it. And in order for me to get you kind of exposed to it, I think the in-person travel is there and will be a big part of what we do, but it will probably not be to the level of the 42 to 43 weeks a year that I was doing for the last five years. I think we'll be down to two half that, um, which is good, which is good. And, and, and again, we're going to learn how to better incorporate zoom into that. So there's no reason at this point that we couldn't do an in person session somewhere in Minneapolis and also share that content with teachers in North Dakota. Um, and I think we're going to find out ways of doing that too, so we will combine and learn and adapt for sure.
Speaker 1 00:58:12 Peter, thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate that. Um, do you have anything you'd like to say before you go?
Speaker 0 00:58:18 No, I just very much appreciate the opportunity. Thank you so much for having me on and I will come back anytime. Just let me know when, and hopefully I will get a chance to talk again and please everybody stay safe. Um, everyone just have a wonderful rest of your summers, make the best of it. And we will hopefully be talking to everyone soon and maybe I'll see some of you in person at some point.
Speaker 1 00:58:41 Thank you, Peter. I really appreciate it. This has been disability and prog progress. As the views expressed on the show are not necessarily those of cafe or its board of directors. My name is Sam and the host of the show. Thank you so much for tuning in Charlene dollars. My research person, we were speaking with Peter <inaudible>. Peter is a brand ambassador of blindness products of human aware, talking about Humanware and where they are today. This is KPI 90.3 FM Minneapolis and kpi.org. You can be on my email list by emailing
[email protected].
Speaker 4 00:59:24 Good night.
