Speaker 2 00:01:00 And greetings, thank you for joining disability and progress. Where brings you insights into ideas about and discussions on disability topics? My name is Sam. I'm the host of the show. Thanks so much for tuning in Charlene dolls, my research person, and tonight we have a couple people in the studio. We have, um, Paul Herwig. Hello, Paul.
Speaker 3 00:01:20 Hi Sam. Nice to see you
Speaker 2 00:01:21 Again. Oh, you are on mic too. I'm so sorry, try that
Speaker 3 00:01:24 Again. Hi Sam. It's good to be with you
Speaker 2 00:01:26 Again. Thank you. And we also have miss braille in the studio. Hello, braille.
Speaker 0 00:01:32 Hi. How's it going?
Speaker 2 00:01:33 It's going great. Awesome. And, um, we're gonna talk about tonight a Cabret that's coming up and we're gonna talk about Brailles artistic endeavors and all things braille. How's that one for ya. I like it. And, um, and the off kilter cabaret that will be coming up. So, uh, thank you everyone for joining me. And I wanna remind people of that. If you would like to be on the email list, you may email me at disability and progress. Sam jasmine.com. That's disability and
[email protected]. And I also like to thank John skel, cuz he's a great promoter of the show and he's been promoting people to join my email list. Thank you, John. Oh,
Speaker 1 00:02:15 Shocks
Speaker 2 00:02:16 <laugh> I know you said you were being ghosty, but you, you can't, you can run, but you cannot hide. So that's right. So sorry. We're we're giving you air time anyway. So I'd like to start, um, with you braille and I'd like to have you please gimme a little bit of history about yourself and how did you discover that you were an artist?
Speaker 0 00:02:39 Um, I think I was fortunate to grow up around a lot of amazing people, um, that were able to explore their artistic nature. And so naturally I was drawn to it at a very early age, um, to the point where I was posing and styling the clothing and the hair of Barbie dolls and taking pictures of them. Um, you know, doing photo shoots with them at a, like a age four <laugh>. So I started young,
Speaker 2 00:03:09 I was dressing my cats up. Then how does that count?
Speaker 0 00:03:12 Yeah, sure. Your things were alive. Mine were, were plastics.
Speaker 2 00:03:15 I'm pretty sure they didn't. You probably got a lot less scratches on your arms from, um, your things and mine weren't very appreciative, but I did it anyway.
Speaker 0 00:03:24 True, true.
Speaker 2 00:03:25 <laugh> um, how long have you been blind?
Speaker 0 00:03:28 Uh, I would say, uh, since birth, I have, um, ROP retinopathy of prematurity and um, so I was a premature baby, so I'm lucky and happy to be alive. So it's like, you know, for me it's an okay. Trade off, you know, mm-hmm <affirmative> um, and then I was diagnosed with star guards and some people are saying that it might not be, but, um, I was diagnosed with star guards. Um, when I was in my teens,
Speaker 2 00:03:53 Talk about what star guards is for people who don't know
Speaker 0 00:03:56 It's oh, it's the juvenile form of macular degeneration. Oh,
Speaker 2 00:04:00 Okay. A lot of people are familiar with that at least.
Speaker 0 00:04:03 Right, right. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:04:05 Um, and any other visual things we should know about? Um, I've
Speaker 0 00:04:11 I've had my, I've had double I surgery to repair, um, damaged detached retinas. So I almost went completely blind and you know, very small percentage of the blind population is what they call total or completely blind. Um, so I am, I call myself illegally cited.
Speaker 2 00:04:27 So, so what does that mean exactly how much vision do you have?
Speaker 0 00:04:31 I have no idea. <laugh> I don't know. I think it, it varies because for me it's a contrast is important. Lighting is important movement, um, and levels of pain associated with other things. So it's, there's so many variables it's difficult to say, but I think, um, I can see the big E but it looks like a B at times. So there's, that's, there's that?
Speaker 2 00:04:52 So talk about art. What types of art do you like to play in and what have you, um, what have you generally been working at?
Speaker 0 00:05:04 Um, I am a spoken word artist. I do lyrics. I write lyrics. I love that. And, um, I'm also a visual artist. I'm a legally blind visual artist. And so I do.
Speaker 2 00:05:14 And what does that mean? Yeah,
Speaker 0 00:05:15 Go ahead. Oh, I'm sorry. <laugh> I do photography, but I also do mixed medium. So I, I play around with paints and, um, you know, I'll, I'll incorporate sand or things because I wanted to create art that you could feel mm-hmm <affirmative>, um, something that I could experience that wasn't just a flat surface
Speaker 2 00:05:37 And you write poetry and do you do stories too
Speaker 0 00:05:41 Short stories? I'm kind of getting that craft together. It's not the strongest for me, but, um, um, spoken word I think is,
Speaker 2 00:05:50 Is kind. Do you have any tricks that you use if you do photography, that's gotta be a little bit tricky, making sure you have things lined up. And
Speaker 0 00:05:58 Um, I like to use photography, so I, I don't actually, I do some things that are kind of staged and like when I used to shoot concerts and weddings, um, kits and, or press kits for bands, but for the most part, I like to catch smiles and things that I would ordinarily miss visually mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, so it's my way of seeing, and it's also kind of my middle finger, uh, to society because I was told so much what I could and could not do by both the blind inside community and art being one of those things that they said I should not and could not do. And, um, so that, that made me want to do it more.
Speaker 2 00:06:33 Ah, of course, yeah. Must defy <laugh> right.
Speaker 0 00:06:39 All in the name of progress, that's fight the power.
Speaker 2 00:06:41 That's true. Mm-hmm <affirmative> braille. I wanna talk to you about, you know, being blind and, um, being an artist. And what is your experience being a blind artist basically?
Speaker 0 00:06:51 Um, I think I've, I've in a weird way have struggled with it because internally it's like, I, I don't want to just be seen as a novelty or some sort of gimmick, like a blind artist. Ooh, let me check out what this person can do. Um, I want people to actually fill my work and be impacted by my work and let that stand. But at the same time, it's a big part of who I am and how I create and, and the way in which I create and what I create. So it's like obviously, and especially cuz I go by braille, um, I'm not gonna be shy about being blind. So it's kind of a thing of not being, um, just a blind artist, but being an artist that happens to be blind.
Speaker 2 00:07:35 So do you do shows with, with, and I get that, that last tag there, um, do you do shows with the, in the quote non disability, um, community as well?
Speaker 0 00:07:48 I have, I have, I've done shows with, um, mostly shows with people who don't have disability issues or uh, at least ones that you can readily see
Speaker 2 00:07:57 That's right. That's
Speaker 0 00:07:58 Right. So, you know, we don't, and so
Speaker 2 00:07:59 What's that like,
Speaker 0 00:08:01 I think it's fun. It's, it's, you know, cause I'm learning from them and they're learning from me and it's just, it's just people getting together that enjoy, uh, similar things, uh, being creative. And I, I think it's just sometimes I'll get the whole, like, I don't know what I would do if I ever went blind and I'm like, you would just survive it it's it's not, it's not this huge crippling thing that some people like theorize or fill, you know, it's like, we're human beings. We want to thrive. We need to survive. And so why let that stop
Speaker 2 00:08:34 You? And yet you see there are so many people that do
Speaker 0 00:08:37 Correct. Yes.
Speaker 2 00:08:38 So it's more than just that isn't it it's more than just saying no, you would work it out sometimes people don't mm-hmm <affirmative> um, so you do a lot of writing. Yes. And so what's your favorite piece that you have written?
Speaker 0 00:08:54 Oh my gosh. I don't really have favorites. I think I have moods. I have moods, you know? Okay. And, and so I can shift and, and there's a few love poem that I've written about this one particular individual and, um, I'll call him AC for adult crush. Okay. That's good. And, and so those we've
Speaker 2 00:09:15 All had some of those <laugh>
Speaker 0 00:09:16 Right. And so those are some of my favorite pieces because it's just, it touches on something very real, something unspoken that's, you know, very real.
Speaker 2 00:09:27 And what was it like writing that piece
Speaker 0 00:09:30 Difficult? Um, difficult in the beginning because it's one of those things where I didn't even realize how emotionally involved or how I felt tethered to this individual until I finished writing. And it was a series of pieces and afterwards, um, I had someone read them to me and I'm like, oh wow, I'm in love. You know? Um, so I think there's beauty in it and acceptance in your writing. And sometimes, uh, you admit things to yourself that you verbally, wouldn't say out loud. Um, and you're willing to put that on paper and that's kind of what happens there.
Speaker 2 00:10:06 Did you ever tell AC
Speaker 0 00:10:08 No <laugh> Aw, no, no. Um, I, you know, it's, I think you can love someone long distance it's. Okay.
Speaker 2 00:10:18 And so what is it like as far as, I mean, you didn't just wake up one day and say I'm gonna be a writer. How did that come about?
Speaker 0 00:10:29 Uh, again, I will say my family, um, they, you know, I was like nine when I got my first personal computer, my first apple, um, they really not pushed, but acknowledged that that was something that I was into and, and they helped to, to let me, they allowed me to grow as a writer and as an artist, which was really nice.
Speaker 2 00:10:54 Yeah. And you never felt like your family was saying you can't be an artist, you can't see?
Speaker 0 00:11:00 No. No. In fact, um, my mother gifted me with a Nikon when I was in a very early age. And, um, I went off to New York where I was born, um, to hang out with relatives who they were shooting for the cover of magazines. And, um, so I, I got to, you know, play along and sort of shoot those behind the scene moments. Um, so no that the artist community was really welcoming and accepting for the most part. It was the blind community or members, some members, not all, not a, you know, um, and members of the sighted community that were older and very, um, you know, they were like, oh, a blind photographer. And they would scoff and laugh at it because, you know, to them, they were stuck in what they believe photography is and what art is and, and they couldn't see anything beyond that. So they were limited in that view.
Speaker 2 00:11:50 Interesting. Um, if you had to pick a favorite writer, who would it be
Speaker 0 00:11:56 Without a doubt, Marvin bell.
Speaker 2 00:11:58 And tell me what Marvin bell writes, sorry.
Speaker 0 00:12:01 Oh, he's deceased now. Um, he's a poet and, uh, people should Google him. And he was a, he was a poet and a professor, um, in Iowa I believe. And, um, amazing writer. And I, my writing is nothing like his, but, um, his work touched me deeply.
Speaker 2 00:12:21 And what is it about his writing that you enjoy so much?
Speaker 0 00:12:27 I got a description. It was a visual, um, like just things that I would never notice even with, if I recited, I don't think I would've noticed, you know, certain aspects of like the, a Bush or, or he just has a way of weaving things together. That's just impactful and beautiful and brilliant. Um, so yeah.
Speaker 2 00:12:49 Cool. Well, Mr. Paul, hi. Hi. I don't want you to fall asleep on me, so,
Speaker 3 00:12:57 Oh, I'm not falling asleep. No, I'm just super attentive and listening to your conversation and just like everybody at home,
Speaker 2 00:13:04 I wanna ask about, you know, we have this cabaret coming up.
Speaker 3 00:13:08 Yes, we do.
Speaker 2 00:13:09 Um, tell a little bit about it.
Speaker 3 00:13:12 Yeah, well, the, um, uh, it's, it's, uh, called, um, the off kilter cabaret and the title of the cabaret is Oregon recital. And, um, off kilter is a new program that, um, my dance and theater company off-leash area, uh, has, um, been developing alongside our, um, wonderful team of, um, artistic, um, and organizational advisors. Um, and Sam, you and John SCO are two of those people along with, uh, Amy Soloway. And, um, we, uh, wanted to develop a program that, um, highlighted and showcased, uh, artists who happened to have disabilities and off-leash area ran a small theater, uh, before the pandemic. And this program was a program that was supposed to premiere at, uh, that theater space. Um, but that changed because of the pandemic and, but we've been very committed to, uh, moving forward and making sure that this project happens because we believe so deeply in it.
Speaker 3 00:14:23 Um, our company has had a relationship with, um, people, individuals, and organizations, um, in the community, um, who people who have disabilities or organizations who, uh, whose mission is to serve people with disabilities. And, um, we just really wanted to make that a more, a larger and deeper part of what off-leash area does. So we came up with this idea of the cabaret. We thought it was a very simple, um, sort of, um, format to showcase several artists of different disabilities with different artistic disciplines. And, um, off-leash area as a company has always been, um, about, um, making space for, uh, people to bring their skills and talents to the productions that we create to the collaborations that we develop. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, um, to the connections that we make in the community. Um, Jennifer Isles and I, as artistic directors have, um, even though we love to be on stage, uh, and we love to create our works.
Speaker 3 00:15:25 We really try to step back and not make our company, um, activities about our own egos and our own selves. And so, um, off kilter is very, very much a core part of what we're trying to do. Um, yes, and anyhow, this, um, this, uh, cabaret, which is gonna be just a blast. We have seven artists that are all very different people, people with different disabilities, people with different subject matter. And they're tackling this theme called organ recital, which is to, um, I guess, focus on the fact that, um, there are artists in the community who can be defined by physical parts of their body, whether they accept those definitions or not. Um, whether those things are imposed upon you or not, or people who embrace those things. And it's probably both alternately as you go through life like everyone, you know, you embrace and reject aspects of yourself, um, and just try to make, do with what you have.
Speaker 3 00:16:28 And, um, it it's an opportunity for people to, um, seize a part of their personhood relating to their disability and use that in, um, a work of performance or a, a, a reading of poetry or a puppetry piece, or some music or a spoken word, um, performance as part of the cabaret. And, uh, it plays for four nights, um, at the tech box, uh, downtown Minneapolis in the Kohl center, which is at 5 28 Hennepin and it's, uh, June 16th, 17th, 18th, and 19th, and, uh, at times, and other information are on off-leash areas website, which is www off-leash area.org. And look for the off kilter page. Any hyphens in there? No, <laugh> all right. No, it's all one word off-leash area. do.org do off-leash area.org. Yeah. And we're super excited to have Selena be a part of this, um, to have, uh, braille be a part of this, excuse me, and, um, braille and I met years and years ago. And, uh, it's just super fun to, um, be with her again in the same space.
Speaker 2 00:17:48 So you, you said something that struck me, interestingly, that you and Jennifer who are the owners of this basically, um, you guys are used to being on stage, what's it like stepping back and kind of watching and, and helping people produce a, a good quality piece and helping them with that.
Speaker 3 00:18:07 It's really wonderful. I mean, you know, I've always believed, uh, and I think it's easier as a, as a, um, an artist of age as a, as an artist who is now entering his sixties. Um, I think it's really important to understand that artists, aren't just people who create art. There are also people who, um, create community in different ways. Um, there are people who, um, support and who give back and who, um, lend resources and, you know, really do their part to create, um, you know, an interconnected infrastructure of art makers and art making in the communities that they live in. So, um, we have another program that, um, I'm specifically involved in, uh, called the right here, showcase mm-hmm <affirmative>. And it's very similar in that. Um, it's a, it's a juried, uh, selection process for artists to apply to. Um, but, um, it's a different kind of curation in that we don't have, uh, anything to say, um, about the art that the artists are creating, who are, um, selected to participate in the program. Um, we believe that, um, the best thing to do for artists is to leave them alone <laugh> and let them do their thing and to not make them jump through hoops that we create to satisfy our own, uh, aesthetic agenda. Um, and, um, so we're just there to support and to, and to, you know, do what we can in the context of the resources that we have for this program, um, to enable them to create and present their work and, and find new audiences.
Speaker 2 00:19:51 And one of the things where that the requirement kind of was for this one is you should have a disability. Is it the same with the right here showcase?
Speaker 3 00:20:00 No, uh, the right here showcase is open to, uh, any ability. Um, and, um, there are, um, a different eligibility requirements for the right here showcase. It's a, it's a program for mid-career artists, mm-hmm <affirmative>, um, who have lived in the community for X number of years and have been creating their own work for X number of years. Um, and, um, you know, I mean, similarly or interestingly, uh, for the off kilter cabaret, we were very interested in having a wide range of, um, experiences in art making. So we have, you know, some artists who are very much emerging, others who I would say are mid-career others who are older. So it's quite a, a, it's quite a diversity in all aspects, uh, diversity in different kinds of abilities, diversity in artistic disciplines, um, diversity in race and, uh, uh, um, and, uh, background, um, geographic location. The it's really, it's really quite a mix of people and we hope it's a great foundation to, um, keep continuing this program into the future.
Speaker 2 00:21:13 Can you give us just a brief rundown a little bit on, who's gonna be on this off kilter kilter cabaret?
Speaker 3 00:21:20 Yes, I can. Um, well, first of course, we have braille here <laugh>, um, who is, um, doing a really, uh, fascinating, uh, piece it's, um, I guess at its foundation, it's, it's a, um, it's a, it's a spoken word, uh, poetry performance, but, um, braille is bringing some really, uh, cool aspects to the performance. I don't wanna give everything away, but I would say that there are oral and other sensory aspects. Um, the, the sense of smell, um, of the sense of sight, which of course comes naturally, I think, but also lack of sight and the, and the whole idea of expectation and how our senses, how we rely on our senses and our expectations and how those things don't line up all the time. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, um, and just beautiful, um, written words, you know, just beautiful poems as well. Um, and, um, we also have, uh, Atlas, so Phoenix, um, who is, um, a, uh, bipo trans, uh, woman who is, um, doing a performance relating to her identity.
Speaker 3 00:22:32 Um, we have Daniel Reva who is a, uh, theater, uh, practitioner, uh, director, um, and playwright. And he is actually submitting a film, a, uh, performance film, uh, Amy Salway, who is a long time fixture of the storytelling, uh, community in town. Um, and Amy's doing, um, I think what will probably be an alternately hilarious and super poignant, um, exploration of her experience with, uh, chronic pain syndrome. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, um, pat samples, um, who is, uh, an elder in the community. And, um, she is, um, doing a, uh, storytelling piece, uh, Scott Sorenson, who is a young man, uh, who is doing, uh, a puppetry performance and a young dance who is, you know, a really, um, incredible organization and company. And they, um, do dance with an all abilities, uh, group of youth. And they're just an incredible, incredible organization for teaching, uh, youth, um, the performing arts, I couldn't say more good things about them.
Speaker 3 00:23:45 Um, and we've known several of the people who have taught there, and they're just a fabulous organization. They're also a partnering organization with, uh, off-leash area on this project. And so we're super happy to have them aboard. So actually quite a it's a, you know, the show will be like an hour 15 with a brief intermission. And, um, it's, I think it's just gonna be, you know, it's our first, um, incarnation of this program. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, and we really, really hope, you know, a lot of times the first time is the hardest, and then we've already got funding to develop the second off kilter. So, um, I'm just battling on, but, um, I'm a theater person, so that just, I just talk and, uh, um, so anyway, that's the program and, and the lineup, and, um, we couldn't be more excited about this project.
Speaker 2 00:24:34 How did you and braille get to know each other?
Speaker 3 00:24:37 Well, it's an interesting story. And I'll you ask? So I, I, it's funny. We were, we were trying to remember when we just got to the studio here to meet you Sam. And, um, if I recall and braille, you're gonna have to jump in if I don't recall, remember this correctly, but so off leash area was doing a show. Uh, we only do original work, so we're creating the show called now. I see you now. I don't. And it was about basically about an artist who goes blind and I like braille had just suffered well suffered or well was suffering, but I experienced a really bad retinal tear and I lost a bunch of vision. I didn't, I didn't lose as much as I thought I could. So that's great. Um, and, um, I also didn't have an insurance at the time, so that was a whole other aspect of the show. Oh,
Speaker 2 00:25:31 That's like mentally painful. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:25:34 And, um, uh, that's a whole, whole other show for you, Sam. Yes, it is. Um, but, um, so I was done at the public library and at the time I was, um, working with a fellow at blind, Inc. Learning how to walk with a cane as research for this show. And, um, I met braille down in front of the Hennepin county public library downtown. Yeah. And I don't know, I mean, this is kind of crazy, but I think I just started the conversation with her. I'm kinda like, you know, Hey, you got a cane you're blind.
Speaker 0 00:26:08 Yeah. A white
Speaker 3 00:26:09 Cane. Can we talk about this show? I'm doing <laugh>. And instead of just like, you know, yelling at me or running away, which would be maybe more, the more normal response, uh, braille struck up a conversation with me and, and yeah. And we met a couple of times after that, right?
Speaker 0 00:26:23 Yes. Yeah. I, I practically took you home. Yeah. So funny boy,
Speaker 3 00:26:28 Don't do this. Don't do this kids,
Speaker 0 00:26:31 But no, no. I, I think I was carrying something and, and with the white cane and you're toggling and you're trying to, to be functional and carry something and also, you know, walk with your cane, um, so that you don't bust your butt. And I was like, well, Hey, since we're talking, why don't you help me? Yeah. To my apartment with my stuff. And so we that's right. He was awesome. And he did that and we just continued to, to meet and speak on, um, blindness. And we both ended up doing a show with a similar name, cuz I had my art show at around that time. And it was, um, it was called, um, I see you or something like that. So that's right. It was kind funny. Cause afterwards you were like, oh my gosh, you probably thought I took your
Speaker 2 00:27:13 Yeah,
Speaker 0 00:27:14 I think it was just, we were likeminded. Yeah. You know, we were both dealing with some of the same stuff and, and finding our voice through art, um, dealing with
Speaker 2 00:27:22 Blindness, this is interesting. You had two very similar, you know, names and whatnot, but very different with how you guys did them. Mm-hmm <affirmative>
Speaker 3 00:27:32 Yeah. We have a lot of, I mean, I, cuz I've painted since I was a little kid and I, I got into, you know, theater and performing arts later, um, you know, in high school, but um, you know, my first love was always, uh, visual art. And so we had that connection too. And yeah. So it just goes to show you, you know, you don't have to look or be the same and you can find connections everywhere. Right? Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:27:55 Braille, I'm curious, what was the most challenging type of writing piece that you did? Was it the one about AC or was there another really hard
Speaker 0 00:28:06 One? Um, I would say it was connected to AC because there was a situation that occurred that was quite ugly with another person. Um, and not trying to, trying to find a way through that pain and through loss. And so it's, it's, you know, he was there and he was kind of, uh, like an anchor, um, uh, that I was drawn to even more because of his compassion and warmth during one of the hardest, most difficult times of my life, um, in which I ended up being homeless. So, and being homeless and being a woman and being blind is so very scary.
Speaker 2 00:28:48 Do you wanna talk about
Speaker 0 00:28:49 That? So scary. Sure. Um, I had to hide my blindness when I was doing like going to hotels because I didn't want to be perceived as a target. Um, and, and so people would often just think that I was drunk or intoxicated or some, you know, something else because I was sort of stumbling around, but I didn't want the, the white cane to, to, um, identify me as someone who can be hurt. And that was, I had already been robbed at this point by a bunch of guys and, and so I was just trying to handle being disabled and being extra vulnerable. And, um, that was, that was unbelievably difficult.
Speaker 2 00:29:33 Did you like, were there, there was no things set in place that could help you as far as
Speaker 0 00:29:41 Oh no services, the services were when you're homeless, this is what's really interested. Interesting. Your services are usually suspended. And so the things that you would count on, or I would count on like ILS, independent living skills, or just having, uh, PCAs, personal care attendance or something, all of those services go, bye bye. Because now you're homeless. So you are literally on your own and fending for yourself.
Speaker 2 00:30:07 And how did you get back?
Speaker 0 00:30:09 I, I just, I had friends, I have family, most of them out of state. Um, it was draining on them. It was draining on, on my, on me obviously. Um, and there was a lot of fear involved because you you're like, okay, can I afford this hotel? Can I afford this motel? How long can I stay here? And economic assistance can't really assist you. There's it was really a challenge. And during that time period, adult crush AC again was an anchor. Um, and it was, it was just
Speaker 2 00:30:42 Often times people who have visual disabilities and stuff have social security. Were you able to depend on that?
Speaker 0 00:30:49 Yes. So I have that, but it's not enough. And you know, when you're, when you're paying almost a hundred dollars a night, right.
Speaker 2 00:30:56 It's it's, that goes fast.
Speaker 0 00:30:57 It does. It really does.
Speaker 2 00:30:59 Especially what if you make like a thousand dollars a month mm-hmm <affirmative> it's not right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, so what was that like now, when you, when you got back was how was things, how were things different for you with your outlook on yourself and on society?
Speaker 0 00:31:19 I think I, I look at homelessness differently, um, experiencing it and the judgment, the judgment does come from that just, and the, the act of needing help and going to people. And also, unfortunately there are a lot of individuals that are predatorial and so you have to kind of keep up this guard and so I've become more distant. Um, you know, it's, but you can't give up. I didn't give up, I have a home, I have some sense of stability, but after losing it and so quickly, um, there's always that, that underlying fear of having the rug pulled from underneath you, because it's already happened once or happened twice or happened. However many times you, you learn that what you count on, you can't count on. Um, except for, from, I have faith and I have, you know, I'm, I'm lucky to have some loved ones that were there for me even though long distance. So
Speaker 2 00:32:23 Did you write about the experience
Speaker 0 00:32:25 I have? I have, I've not shared, I, I was gonna speak to, um, Paul about it, but I've not shared a lot of those things because it was it's so dark mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, and
Speaker 2 00:32:36 I thought being an artist that gave you permission to be dark <laugh> yeah, yeah. In a sense, you know, I mean, I, I feel like so much of writing, not all writing, obviously, but I know a number of people who do write mm-hmm <affirmative> and it's pretty dark
Speaker 0 00:32:50 <laugh>. Yeah. It's well, you get to express that side of you, that other people may not pay attention to or want to, and that you might not feel comfortable enough to share with them. So it's, I think of it as similar as like, when people are online and, you know, like we are all kind of behind that screen. And so they've people feel more comfortable, uh, oversharing and sharing on. Um, and, and so for me, it's, um, than like being online and I think, and I'm online quite often and it's like an even playing field because people don't see my disability don't.
Speaker 2 00:33:23 Yeah. Um, so when you're homeless, it must be like a pride stripping type of ordeal. Mm-hmm <affirmative> how do you get your pride back?
Speaker 0 00:33:32 It's not there yet, uh, area <laugh>, I'm still healing from it. It's not there yet.
Speaker 2 00:33:38 What kind of things are you doing to get it back?
Speaker 0 00:33:41 Just going outside and realizing I have a place to go inside and that's mine that I can call home. Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, so very simple act. Um, being able to, to know that I'm not gonna hear someone screaming in a next room, um, that there's that peace and that comfort that comes from having your own place. And, um, I think getting the pride back, I don't, I wouldn't call it pride as much as it just a sense itself. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:34:11 Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:34:12 Getting your sense of self it's. You lose yourself a bit. There's, there's a despair that's there that I, um, I can't, I can barely touch on. I think I sent Paul pictures of me when I was, I took pictures of me, like when I was crying and it was like the ugly, the ugly cry, where I think things were happening with my nose. <laugh> um, <laugh> you know, and, and so I documented some of that because it's like, this is what my reality is. It's not glossy, it's not pretty. And that's also a part of being blind. And I, I, when I watch or listen, um, to like YouTubers or people speak of other disability, they're always like, hi, welcome back to my channel and super happy. And I think that's great if that is their reality. And they're covered by a family that's there and supportive and can kind of shield them from the world.
Speaker 0 00:35:03 But the world happens to all of us that don't have that shield that don't have that protection. A majority of us don't have it. And so being in that state where you don't know if you're gonna be able to eat, it's humbling, it's extremely humbling. But you also know that you can't depend on. So and so for a meal, because they might have our, uh, motives that you don't want to get next to that person. So you have to be careful. There's just so much. And when you can't see that person, you can't see the expressions. You don't know how, if they're leering at you or, you know, or they're eyeing your purse, um, you have to go by just what you feel if you feel like something is off, get out.
Speaker 2 00:35:48 So, you know, there's something I think I disagree on this. You, you talk about, you know, you you're you're, you kind of lost yourself, but I, I don't know if you did, because I mean, you may have felt like you did, but I see that there's a strength that you had in order to take pictures <laugh> of the ugly time. And that really is a strength. There are people who would not even be able to have that strength. Like they'd be so bottomed out. They just wouldn't have the energy to, or the thought to even do it. Mm. And so I, I think that, that you do have more strength than you maybe see or saw at the time. Can we talk about your piece that you're going to do in the cabaret braille?
Speaker 0 00:36:29 Sure. Um, a, a little bit without giving out. Uh that's
Speaker 2 00:36:32 Right. Without giving too much. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:36:34 Without giving too much information. Um, it is, it is in regards sensory deprivation. So just, um, you know,
Speaker 2 00:36:43 What's it called again?
Speaker 0 00:36:45 Um, it's, it's not really a name, but it's, it's ICU and it's like, how you, how do you see me? So it's basically the world is I see it, but like, I want to know how do people see me? Um, cuz that's, it's kind of interesting the way that, that shapes the way that I see myself given that I can't really see myself in a mirror. Um, so I, I just sort of talk about blindness and my work is just regarding the emotions and of course AC um, adult crush
Speaker 2 00:37:15 <laugh> yes. Um, why do you feel like it's so important for the audience to identify with your disability?
Speaker 0 00:37:25 I think it's important because there are so many other disabilities that I didn't understand. Um, you know, I I've met people before were like wheelchair bound and those that have other issues and it's like, what works for me? Like I need to know that edging and kind of have that, you know, that drop off so that I can know when walk. Um, so my, for my cane to kind of graze the side of something when walking, but for someone in a wheelchair, they need for it to slope down in order to cross. So it's kind of like what works for me, doesn't work for another. And I felt like what works for sighted people. They don't understand what works for me. So, um, why not get a taste of that
Speaker 2 00:38:06 A little? Do you think that really does help?
Speaker 0 00:38:10 I do. I think it opens up a line of communication and conversation and I think having these are hard conversations or easy ones, depending on who you are, um, that are worth having,
Speaker 2 00:38:18 Right. If you have a little bit more depth to you, they might be more interesting. Yeah. Um, and I'm talking about the sighted person <laugh> um, yeah, we'll stick around and do this show for a while and then you'll discover a whole lot of disabilities you didn't know about. Oh, oh wow. Okay. Um, there's just so much out there if you could. I mean, what, what are your ideas of what your next Endeavor's gonna be? What do you think you're gonna write next? Do you have plans on what you're going to try to accomplish?
Speaker 0 00:38:49 Um, yes. I, I would like to kind of have a small show, um, just more storytelling, um, and where it's really personal, you know, like where people can ask questions towards the end and, and we can have, again dialogue have that, those conversations in regards to blindness and just living life. Um, you know, being a woman, having been homeless with a disability, just, um, being open to talking about that. So, um, I would like to have a show, um, centered around that. And then also an art show, a visual art show, um, showcasing my photography as well as my paintings and, and other pieces.
Speaker 2 00:39:31 I wanna go back to the homeless thing a little, sorry, but this is slightly intriguing to me as far as what were your friends' responses when you weren't homeless anymore? Did you not, did they treat you differently? Did how did that work?
Speaker 0 00:39:45 I think because especially with, you know, C having happened and, and pre COVID and all of the struggles before and after enduring, um, people were, it was really a mix. It was like, there were a few that didn't really have a response because they didn't know what to say. They were angered by what happened. Um, but they felt powerless and helpless in it. And so those relationships became a little afraid. Um, just due to the fact that they didn't know how to communicate. They felt horrible, you know, and I, and then I felt bad that they felt bad, so it became a thing. Um, and then there were others that I think were just afraid that I was gonna ask for money <laugh> and, and then there were those who wanted to fundraise and, and, and insisted on helping. I just think that all of those responses are just human they're, you know, I don't, I don't fault anyone who distanced themselves. Um, because again, it is painful to see somebody that you love going through something and suffering and not have the ability to stop it or help.
Speaker 2 00:40:46 Um, do you think it was painful or just awkward?
Speaker 0 00:40:48 Maybe a bit of both. I think it's, I think if you're, if you have any kind of empathy, it's painful,
Speaker 2 00:40:54 Did you actually lose friends?
Speaker 0 00:40:56 I don't wanna say that I lost friends, but I would say that I recognized who stood by me during that period of time. And so it's strengthened who, weren't
Speaker 2 00:41:04 Your fair weather friends. That's what I call them.
Speaker 0 00:41:07 <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:41:08 Um, who are the true stable friends?
Speaker 0 00:41:12 I'm blessed to have those. Mm, I really
Speaker 2 00:41:14 Am. I think there's probably not enough of those in the world.
Speaker 0 00:41:17 No, but I I'm lucky to have the few that I do. So, yeah.
Speaker 2 00:41:23 So short stories, you said you're, you you've written some and you're working on some mm-hmm <affirmative> what, what are they like?
Speaker 0 00:41:30 It's, it is about the journey. It's, it's more about what I've gone through, just changing the names and a few things legal purposes. Um, but it's just another way of exploring my thoughts and feelings and, and how I see the world.
Speaker 2 00:41:49 Okay. Paul, do you wanna give the, um, info, how people can find out more about the cabaret and where to go to get tickets once more, please?
Speaker 3 00:41:57 Yeah, absolutely. Well, it's called the off kilter cabaret and, um, off-leash area dance and theater company is, um, organizing and presenting this event and it's, um, coming up really soon. It's June 16, 17, 18, and 19 at the tech box theater on the second floor of the Kohl center at 5 28 Hennepin avenue, downtown Minneapolis. Uh, so parking is gonna be rotten downtown, but go to our website at off-leash area.org to get all of the information about the show. Um, tickets are on sale now, uh, they're not expensive and this will be a show like nothing anybody's ever seen in town. And I
Speaker 2 00:42:45 Just thought of a great way that you should plug this. So probably a lot of people are wondering what the heck they're gonna do for father's day. The 19th is father's day. You know, they should probably just bring their dads to off kilter cabaret.
Speaker 3 00:42:58 Absolutely.
Speaker 0 00:43:00 <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:43:00 Nice. So, um, do you have any thought of what you think the next venture off kilter will do is Paul?
Speaker 3 00:43:10 You know, I don't know, but I know that there will be one. Uh, we just got word recently that the, uh, metropolitan regional arts council has awarded us a grant to do some really serious development of the program, uh, which I think will be fantastic. So we'll get the first off kilter successfully completed, and then we've already got support to get down around the table and, um, figure out how to reach more people, serve more artists and get more audience to the show.
Speaker 2 00:43:42 Well, you know, I think you should convince John to finish writing his stuff and then he can
Speaker 3 00:43:48 <laugh>,
Speaker 2 00:43:49 You're gonna have to really do some convincing though. Cuz you gotta work on him.
Speaker 3 00:43:54 That would be great.
Speaker 2 00:43:56 All right. So braille, is there anything more you'd like to share with us?
Speaker 0 00:44:00 No. Um, except for, I think that Paul, um, he does exceptional work. Um, he and Jennifer and I am really, really happy to be a part of this and, and um, I, I am, I've gotten nothing but welcoming vibes from everyone that is, um, a part of, of your group, your organization and um, yeah, it's, it's maybe that's helping me get my quote unquote pride back
Speaker 3 00:44:25 Right on.
Speaker 2 00:44:26 How did you, how long did it take you to write this piece that you're going to do?
Speaker 0 00:44:30 Um, it's a series of four pieces and they're, they're kind of, um, they're together. So it's, it's again, it's just a, a journey, you know, so I am sharing my journey.
Speaker 2 00:44:45 All right. Well, good luck in the future and I'm, I will be there to see the piece, so that's good. I'm looking forward to it and uh, you have more stories <laugh> all right, Paul, is there anything you would like to share more?
Speaker 3 00:45:00 Yeah, thanks for asking. It just occurred to me, you know, so we have a number of, uh, accessibility services that are going to, uh, happen at the show. There's gonna be one night where we're going to have a captioning service. Uh, there's gonna be a couple nights where we have ASL and then we'll have, um, I think audio description every night at the show. So, you know, again, check out the website where obviously, because this is a program to highlight and support our valued artists in the disability community. We're trying to make this, uh, project as accessible as possible to absolutely everybody. So, um, if there's a service on the website that you don't see and you wanna come and see the show, please contact awfully area and we will make it happen.
Speaker 2 00:45:49 And do you remember what nights the caption is going on and what the ASL is
Speaker 3 00:45:55 Going? I do. And um, if you just gimme one second. So, um, uh, let's see. So, um, there will be audio description every night, the 16th through the 19th. Um, there will be ASL on Friday the 17th and Sunday, the 19th, and there will be captioning on Saturday the 18th. Excellent. So, yep. And, uh, and all that information is on the website.
Speaker 2 00:46:25 All right. Great. Well thank you both for coming on. I really appreciate it. It's been great. And the time went fast.
Speaker 3 00:46:33 <laugh> thank you, Sam.
Speaker 0 00:46:34 Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 00:46:35 You're very welcome. I wanna remind you again, if you wanna be on the email list, you may email me at disability and progress. Sam jasmine.com. We'll be right back. Actually. This is it. This has been K F 90.3, FM Minneapolis and K f.org. This is disability and progress. The, he is expressed on the show and not necessarily those of K or its board of directors. My name is Sam. I'm the host of the char show, Charlene dolls. My research team. We've been speaking with Paul wick from off leash area and braille who was going to be performing her piece in the upcoming off kilter cabaret. And we welcome your emails to talk about anything you'd like to talk about or suggest future topics and artists and whatnot. Thanks so much for listening.
Speaker 1 00:47:28 Goodnight.
