Speaker 1 00:01:01 Greetings and thank you for joining disability and progress, where we bring you insights into ideas about and discussions on disability topics. My name is Sam. I'm the host of this show. Thanks so much for tuning in. I wanna also remind everyone if you wanna join my email list, you can email me at disability and progress, Sam, jasmine.com, and we will stick you on that. And you'll find out what's coming up each and every week. And this week off, as soon as I shut my speech off, we are speaking with Dr. Mona Manara. Dr. Manara is an, uh, assistant professor in the department of bioengineering at Northeastern, where she heads a combined computational modeling of bio interface engineering lab. And Dr. Manara believes that vision is more than sight. Good evening, Dr. Manara.
Speaker 0 00:01:58 Yes. Good evening. Thank you for having me tonight.
Speaker 1 00:02:01 So do what, what do you prefer to be called here?
Speaker 0 00:02:04 Oh, you should just call me Mona <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:02:06 Okay, excellent. <laugh> I know it's so funny. Make that sounding like that. Um, I wanna start out by asking you what that tagline means to you. That vision is more than sight,
Speaker 0 00:02:21 You know, a lot of times, you know, we refer to vision to the actual just process of seeing an object, but in my opinion, when we also refer to vision, it is the idea of, uh, thinking ahead, mm-hmm, <affirmative> thinking bigger strategizing, you know, to truly, to be a visionary as somebody who is there to try to impact the world Uhhuh in a positive and unique way. And so vision is more than the literal aspect of seeing you don't need to see with your eyes to have vision in my personal opinion. So, excellent. That's what I mean by
Speaker 1 00:02:58 That. Thank you. I want you to, now that we've gotten all started and gotten our feet wet, can you please kind of give me a little bit of a history about yourself, you are blind and, and kind of where you grew up and how you lost your vision.
Speaker 0 00:03:13 Yeah, sure. So I was born in Maryland, but I grew up in Boston. So I consider myself Bostonian. I was diagnosed with macular degeneration of colon dystrophy when I was seven. And I lost, I would say the majority of my eyesight, like 95% of it in the next year or so. Um, I grew up, you know, in the public school system I currently have like maybe only like light perception, you know, I'm, I'm blind. I cannot read text. That's a very important distinction. You know, there's a spectrum of blindness mm-hmm <affirmative> and ever since I was a child, I wanna be a scientist and I'm happy to say I am one <laugh> I get to, I get to, you know, express that and run a research lab. I use computational techniques to study molecules at the air air liquid interface in the lungs. So yeah.
Speaker 1 00:04:09 So what kind of struggles, um, did you feel you had growing up as far as with visually?
Speaker 0 00:04:15 Oh, <laugh> yeah, I think the biggest struggle is actually interfacing with society and society's expectation of what a blind person can or cannot do. Um, you know, I tell people this story very often, I'm, I'm gonna tell a short anecdote. Yes. And, you know, tie it into kind of my story. In the 1960s, there was a researcher, a clinical psychologist who ran an experiment. His name was Bob Rosenthal. He brought in a bunch of average rats and in the middle of the night, crept into his lab and labeled half of them as intelligent and half of them as dumb <laugh>. And then he told his experimentalist the next day to help the rats through a maze. And over two weeks, they did that. And amazingly the rats that were labeled intelligent ended up going through the maze twice as fast as the rats that were, were labeled dumb, even though they were all average rats.
Speaker 0 00:05:18 And so it all came down to what did these experimentalists expect of the rats? Mm. And that's kind of, and that's a really important lesson and it, you know, manifests in, in behavior. Right, right. And so this theory was, they were gentler to the intelligent rats or whatever. And I kind of experienced that myself in the sense of before I was seven, you know, I always wanted to be a scientist. I was inspired to do science mm-hmm <affirmative>. And when I turned seven and I was diagnosed, mm-hmm <affirmative> everything changed. Teachers said, oh, well now was not practical. Or, you know, like let's lower the expectation. Let's put her lower classes. But really all that changed was that my eyes didn't work, but my brain still worked. So I really faced that struggle of having very low expectations of me actually.
Speaker 1 00:06:12 What were your family's expectations?
Speaker 0 00:06:16 I have to give my parents credit. They just were like, whatever you, you wanna do, you do. You know? And, and, and that was a really important philosophy that at home, um, I got to pursue like, you know, their expectations were still like, no, this is not gonna stop you mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, but that wasn't necessarily the case in the classroom.
Speaker 1 00:06:39 Yes. And you were integrated, so, I mean, you were in public schools, so what did you feel like, how did that affect you? What did they see you as just another peer? Or was it, did they treat you as always different?
Speaker 0 00:06:57 So I, I was put in lower level classes, um, for the majority of my education until I was in high school. When in 10th grade, I was like, I'm so bored. I wanna take advanced biology. And the, I went to the head of the science department and he was just like, no, Mo you're gonna fail. And then I was like, I don't care this. Like, I have the right to take this class as a public school. Like my parents pay taxes <laugh> and I went to my biology teacher. That's great.
Speaker 1 00:07:28 Where were you when I was in high school class?
Speaker 0 00:07:30 Yeah. <laugh> I was like, I don't, I got to a point in which I was just like, I'm so bored. I'd rather fail than do this again. You know, Uhhuh <affirmative>. Um, I went to first day of biology class and the teacher was like, you don't belong here. You're gonna fail. And I was like, I don't care. And she was like, well, I'm not gonna change the way I teach. I ended up actually getting one of the highest grades in the class she apologized and my perception of myself changed also.
Speaker 1 00:07:58 Ah,
Speaker 0 00:07:59 And so that was a huge turning point for
Speaker 1 00:08:01 Me. That is a huge turning point. And you talk about always wanting to be a scientist, but when did you really discover that you wanted to be in and how did that happen? Do you think? What, what struck that chord in you?
Speaker 0 00:08:18 Honestly, I feel like it's a very incremental process. Like when I was a child, I, I watched PBS and I watched bin light the science guy, and I watched
Speaker 1 00:08:26 Magic. I love bill. I
Speaker 0 00:08:27 <laugh>, I know bill, no, the science guy anyways, bill, bill. Um, and so I was just curious about how the world work works and that stayed with me. I remember learning about Mary Korea. I just always loved science classes. And when I went off to college, I, I mean, honestly I love everything and I ended up changing my major a bunch of times, but I landed on middle Eastern studies and chemistry and it was like almost 50 50, but then I was like chemistry, like intrigues me more. I remember like taking physical chem and learning quantum. And I was like, this is it. Like, this is amazing. Um, and that solidified kind of the, the adult path of being a scientist. Right. Like my dream was always to be a scientist. I didn't know how I was gonna do it. I didn't know exactly what I was gonna do. Mm-hmm <affirmative> but I wanted to learn more about the world.
Speaker 1 00:09:23 Well, I just think it's funny cuz probably, you know, there science is heavy science even doesn't really have a ton of women. There's plenty of women in it now, but it used to not be like that, but for the blind community that is even like less so <laugh> so
Speaker 0 00:09:44 Yeah. I, I, I feel like I'm a unicorn sometimes.
Speaker 1 00:09:47 Yeah. I love unicorn blind, you know, sometimes. So what, what, I mean, how many people are in your field? Blind
Speaker 0 00:09:56 People are blind female.
Speaker 1 00:09:58 Yes.
Speaker 0 00:09:59 I, I, I don't know. I, I don't, I haven't come across any. So if any of you are out there listening, please reach
Speaker 1 00:10:05 Out to me. It's so
Speaker 0 00:10:08 Com
Speaker 1 00:10:09 <laugh> it.com. It's so great. Cause you are just like the smartest person. I know. <laugh> um,
Speaker 0 00:10:16 Too kind. It's just
Speaker 1 00:10:18 So probably most people have no idea what bioengineering is really. Um, can you kind of enlighten us?
Speaker 0 00:10:27 Sure. I mean, honestly I feel like sometimes I don't even know. No, I shouldn't say
Speaker 1 00:10:32 That out loud.
Speaker 0 00:10:33 Okay. Bioengineering spans anything that involves engineering and biology. So I can span anything from like, um, you know, getting a mechanical, like, like, you know, like a knee transplant, like the device for your knee or like a, like a pacemaker, everything from that to what I do, which I basically look at, um, studying proteins on the atomic scale all the way ranging to, I don't know, like it's just like anything biology related and you must engineer. So I'm, I'm trying to think like that's yeah. That's all I got for you. It's it's a really wide area. So my specific degree was in chemistry. Mm-hmm <affirmative> I just now apply chemistry to bio
Speaker 1 00:11:23 Engineering. Gotcha. So what kind of struggles do you find in your field if chemistry here?
Speaker 0 00:11:34 Well, honestly the entire field is designed, um, to be visual and I'm blind. Everything is visual. I mean, unfortunately we've also taught the modern scientists that observable is only through the eye and that's not true, but so I have to sit down and problem solve to how do I visualize this protein? So I do everything from, uh, literally have people trace structures with a hot Glu gun, weight, Angela dry. And it's like 3d mm-hmm <affirmative> to using Playto to using molecular modeling kits, um, using my screen reader, like so ma like all the digital texts out there that all the journal articles are not accessible. I mean, there's a lot of struggles. And so there's a lot of things that we can do to change that so that we can allow more blind people to be scientists. If that's what they want.
Speaker 1 00:12:30 Why are the journal articles not accessible? What do you mean by that?
Speaker 0 00:12:35 Literally, I can't even use a screen reader to listen to them, um, to navigate through them. And they're not is because nobody's asked for them to be, even though it's not that hard, you just need to make sure that whatever you're producing digitally is accessible. So we need to definitely as a community work towards that, um, you might be sitting there wondering why should a blind person even be a scientist? And my response is, is because the more people you have with different opinion, like different perspectives, the more likely you're gonna be able to solve future problems. Absolutely. And that's what science needs.
Speaker 1 00:13:13 Yes. Yes. And, um, a more, I think evenness, I mean, you, there's plenty of very extremely bright females out there, so why not? Right.
Speaker 0 00:13:27 Oh, a hundred percent. A hundred percent, but there, you know, unfortunately there's still a class of people who's like, well, you're blind. Like why, why try so hard? Like why, why even bother? You know, and my answer to them is this is who I am and all I want in my life to get to be, and to do what I love doing.
Speaker 1 00:13:48 So,
Speaker 0 00:13:48 And to contribute,
Speaker 1 00:13:49 Talk a little bit about combined lab research. What does that mean?
Speaker 0 00:13:55 So combined lab substantial, computational modeling for bio face engineering. And so, you know, we have graduate students undergrads, and what we do is we literally model. So we observe kind of the atoms and molecules that are in your lungs. So as you're sitting here today, listening to the radio, you're breathing, hopefully if you're not, please get that checked out. Like, you know, we're all breathing. And as we breathe in and out, our lungs are expanding and contracting and all these molecules are like basically moving and freaking out. Right. There's just like constantly moving. And a lot of action is happening inside your lungs right now. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so what I do is try to understand what is that action and try to help, um, connect that back to diseases. There's so there's a lot of lung diseases that are related to how those molecules are moving and trying to understand that could really help with like fighting disease. So when COVID became a thing, this is a big deal. I mean, you know, with the pandemic, you know, we studied how COVID was interacting. Wow. So things like that. So that's what I
Speaker 1 00:15:11 Do. So you have a really good idea of how COVID does what it does as much as a lot
Speaker 0 00:15:19 Of, I mean, to a degree like we have, like, at least what we can do is tell you what COVID interacts with, like in the lung. And then, you know, after that is like somebody else's bioengineering problem. <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:15:33 I'm curious, you did, um, a kit that you made up with. Can you, can you talk about the kit? I don't wanna give
Speaker 0 00:15:44 Anything. Yes, yes. Okay. So one of, one of the things that I like using is molecular modeling kits. So that's just literally like spheres that you connect and you can build a molecule while unfortunately, all molecular modeling kits right now that are in the market are not accessible to blind people. They're every atom has a different color, but they all feel the same. So what we did is basically add texture to those molecules and hopefully in the next few, like, you know, we're working on it, but we're working on trying to make that publicly available for people to be able to buy. And hopefully I would love for that to actually take over, um, you know, the existing molecular modeling kit, cuz that's more accessible.
Speaker 1 00:16:35 So like you'll know what a, a hydrogen looks like or
Speaker 0 00:16:39 Exactly how, or you'll know which one is the hydrogen, which one's the oxygen just by feeling it
Speaker 1 00:16:44 And how many are in the kit?
Speaker 0 00:16:49 Oh, I mean, we haven't finalized those numbers. <laugh> gotcha. But like, you know, there's around 50 pieces so far,
Speaker 1 00:16:56 So this could be really great for schools. You know, I think, oh hard. A lot of times kids get that cannot see or have a hard time seeing get really quite left out of, you know, all the chemistry and things like that. And they, they probably try to understand, but you know, I know I got left out,
Speaker 0 00:17:17 So, oh, I totally got left out too. And these are basically things I wish I had as a child. I mean, how cool is it to get, to develop and create things that would've helped me in my education and still helped me today as a, as a grown adult scientist. <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:17:34 Yeah. You did another interesting thing. Well, you've done a lot of interesting things, but one of the things that you have worked on in the past couple years, and, and actually you were doing this during COVID time too, I think, um, was something called planes, trains and canes.
Speaker 0 00:17:57 I do have to say we did do it right before
Speaker 1 00:17:59 COVID right before timing
Speaker 0 00:18:01 Was impeccable. Cause you,
Speaker 1 00:18:03 It was, it was really tight there. I was like, it
Speaker 0 00:18:06 Was it, I mean, I didn't know. I mean, nobody knew, right? Like, okay. So let me, let me tell you plane trains and canes is an awesome project that I got to do. So back in 29, uh, 2018, I think I, no, I applied early 2019. Um, I was stressed out applying for jobs to become a professor and I was like, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna apply to the home in prize, which is a prize given to ambitious blind people by the lighthouse of the blind in San Francisco. So anybody listening feel free to apply, um, they give you $25,000 for any ambitious idea. So what I proposed is let me show you how a blind person would travel independently to five different cities around the world, not just travel, but travel using only public transportation and see what happens. And that's exactly what I ended up doing. So there is a YouTube series. Uh, you can check it out, planes, trains, and canes, um, where I go to Johannesburg, London, Istanbul, Singapore, and Tokyo, get into some shenanigans <laugh> and you know, ride the public transportation and explore those cities.
Speaker 1 00:19:20 So how did you decide which cities you wanted to target?
Speaker 0 00:19:27 I wanted a diversity of experiences. Um, so some of it was based on what I've heard. Some of it was based on past experience that I wanted to see if I can capture on camera. And some of it was based on, because I, I saw a hotel on a <laugh> on a, like a, a Netflix like documentary series. And I was like, I wanna experience this hotel, but yeah, so that that's like, it was all over the place on the reason why,
Speaker 1 00:19:57 So what I mean, these are pretty diverse places. Obviously the, the, um, interaction with people with disabilities is going to be quite different. Do you wanna talk about some of that?
Speaker 0 00:20:15 Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. It was very different. Um, so for example, in Tokyo, things were so accessible. Public transportation was really designed with a lot of people in mind, including blind people in Tokyo was and was phenomenal. Yeah. On the other hand, <laugh>, on the other hand in London, you know, there's more of a custodial philosophy. Like I had to argue to be able to ride the train on my own. You know, I got into an argument, you could definitely check it out to, um, you know, Istanbul where I didn't speak the language, but clearly people tried to help when I asked and people left me alone when I didn't want the help. So it was kind of a whole spectrum of experience and definitely check it out to see the more nuances that you get, you know, that you, that you feel when you go to those different cities.
Speaker 1 00:21:10 Obviously these cities were okay with, uh, in, in some sense with women traveling by themselves, let alone blind women that, I mean, you had a little bit of difficulty in London, but, um, there are countries where, um, now we are struggling with, you know, you can struggle with, you'd never go travel by yourself as a blind woman.
Speaker 0 00:21:34 Um, yeah. I mean, you know, Johannesburg, like a lot of people were, would like worry about Johannesburg, but like I never felt unsafe. So yeah. I mean, I don't, it's gonna, I don't know. Yeah. I don't
Speaker 1 00:21:47 Know. Did people seem surprised
Speaker 0 00:21:49 Haven experience yet?
Speaker 1 00:21:51 Did you feel like people were surprised that you were out there traveling
Speaker 0 00:21:56 In Johannesburg? Yeah, I did feel like people in Johannesburg kind of like some people knew what the cane was. Some people didn't, I feel like they pretty much left me alone until I tried to ask for help and then they were helpful.
Speaker 1 00:22:13 Hmm. And what response did you get to doing this type of, you know, YouTube and, and this project?
Speaker 0 00:22:27 Ooh, what's really cool. Is it caused a lot of discussion, especially the episode of London, which is exactly what I want. I want people to like watch it and think, um, I got people telling me, wow, Mona. Like I never thought about this before. And I got, you know, people insulting me, unfortunately.
Speaker 1 00:22:44 Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:22:45 Especially in London, they're like Mona, you should just accept the help. And why are you making a fuss? So the story in London is basically like they were forcing me to accept the help. And all I wanted to know is where the train was and I respectfully was declining the help. It's good that there are systems to help, but it's, it's better to be heard. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so sometimes you want the help, sometimes you don't and you know, it, it just really caused a lot of discussion.
Speaker 1 00:23:12 And how, what, how did you video all this? Like what, what was your setup?
Speaker 0 00:23:22 So my setup was I had Natalie goosey who was my caramel woman and the deal was because I really wanted to experience this as independently as possible. Mm-hmm <affirmative> was that she followed me and, and I didn't know where she was when, when I was on camera, when I was navigating, I was truly like in my element almost as if I was alone, I knew that Natalie was somewhere in the back. I trusted that she was following me. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, but I had no way to communicate with her. Um, I just had to trust that she was following me. What was really cool is also Natalie didn't really question my directions. Like she never looked up where to go. Like she was truly there to follow me. So it was me figuring out where to go, me going me, whatever, like doing all those pieces. And Natalie was just trusting me. And that was kind of a phenomenal, also experience by itself. And I was trusting her to capture me.
Speaker 1 00:24:20 Did you ever get seriously lost?
Speaker 0 00:24:22 I don't think I was.
Speaker 1 00:24:24 What did you ever get seriously lost?
Speaker 0 00:24:27 I mean, what is seriously lost? I totally got lost. I totally got lost multiple
Speaker 1 00:24:31 Times. Yeah. But like a long way from where you <laugh>. Did you ever feel, have the feeling of, oh my gosh, what have I gotten myself into? <laugh>
Speaker 0 00:24:42 Uh, I, you know what? I kind of allowed myself, like I'm I gave myself a pep talk before I started, I was like Mona it's okay. To get lost. It's part of the adventure. Give yourself time. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And when I did that, like that really freed me, there was like weird mental freedom. I was willing to even get like, miss a connection just for the sake of me trying.
Speaker 1 00:25:06 Is there anything you wish you would've done differently or would like to go back and do it again and do different things?
Speaker 0 00:25:14 I definitely learned some things to enhance. I feel like I kind of squeezed a lot of travel. I did most of it in two weeks in December of 2019, right before the pandemic. So it was very exhausting. Um, I think I would do that differently. Um,
Speaker 1 00:25:33 Thoughts would do in a second
Speaker 0 00:25:35 One. It's not easy to do it. Like it's not like, you know, it's, it's definitely a challenge.
Speaker 1 00:25:39 Any thoughts of doing a second one? What, any thoughts of doing a second one?
Speaker 0 00:25:47 I okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's still kind of like, not public news, but yeah. <laugh> oh,
Speaker 1 00:25:51 Sorry. Okay.
Speaker 0 00:25:53 It's okay. It's okay. But like, you know, we might be able to do this season two. I'll leave it that way.
Speaker 1 00:25:59 Okay. Excellent. Mona, what is the allied project?
Speaker 0 00:26:05 Oh, thank you for asking. So the allied project is a project we launched here at Northeastern. It stands for allies leading learning inclusion, education of disabilities. And it, it is what it sounds like, which means like we sit down and talk about issues related dis disabilities and how we include people with disabilities, especially in the education realm and, you know, ask people to become allies and talk about the issues we deal with.
Speaker 1 00:26:34 And what are some of the issues you find that you're dealing with?
Speaker 0 00:26:38 Well, you know, it was really interesting. We covered that. Like we had different, uh, programs related to different disabilities. I think one of the biggest kind of underlying theme is that number one, people don't know, but number two is that like, you know, truly starting to bring the discussion to the forefront. Like a lot of times people discuss like diversity, but then like they forget to mention disability as part of that. And it's an important part of diversity.
Speaker 1 00:27:08 That is an interesting thing. Isn't it?
Speaker 0 00:27:11 <laugh> yes.
Speaker 1 00:27:13 And so how do we, how do we change that?
Speaker 0 00:27:18 Well, I mean, definitely check out allied programming, but like, I mean, you know, start asking the questions. I, I think that's, that's how we change anything and let's start talking about it, like we're doing right now.
Speaker 1 00:27:32 Do you think that people with disabilities just don't speak up enough or
Speaker 0 00:27:39 No?
Speaker 1 00:27:40 I mean, there's, there's
Speaker 0 00:27:41 Something I think sometimes we're tired of speaking up. Yes. But it's like, when we speak, like, please listen, <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:27:48 There is some disconnect there isn't there. I mean, there is it's it's, uh, you see it in all facets, I think of life and, and the whole discussion now is even like with racism. Um, but disability often even sometimes gets left out of that. Uh, so you know what I mean? So, and it's it, there isn't any separation really it's there is no race that lacks disability, unfortunately there really isn't. And so to leave it out means that you're not covering the whole thing in
Speaker 0 00:28:28 My opinion. Oh, totally. And it's a form of diversity. Like, you know, I mean, we have different needs, but like, I mean, but it really isn't that way. We shouldn't think about it that way. We should think about it, about how we come as human beings to the table and we wanna see it at the table. So make room for us so that we can contribute because we have as a community, a lot to contribute.
Speaker 1 00:28:49 And so is this, this project, um, is it just primarily people who are at your particular college or is this a, a nationwide thing that you're trying to do? Or how, how does it work?
Speaker 0 00:29:02 Well? So the programming is happening at Northeastern. We do invite people from all over. We do post all the programs online. So there is a YouTube channel, um, called allied. And you can watch all of our, um, videos there, which is great. Everything is close caption and it, and fully accessible. And so you can sit there and learn about different topics. Like I learned a lot, like I learned a lot about the deaf community this past semester, for example, and the struggle, you know, the issues and struggles they deal with.
Speaker 1 00:29:34 And do you have different disabilities that kind of just take turns, discussing what their struggles are?
Speaker 0 00:29:42 Yeah. And like different topics. Like, yeah, we, we had, uh, mental health, you know, issues being discussed in neuro divergent, like mobile mobility disabilities, um, like invisible disability. We had, we had a lot of different topics that we were discussing, including blindness too.
Speaker 1 00:30:02 <laugh> right. So I am, uh, I am a teacher of technology and braille for people who are visually impaired and blind, but you're actually a blind professor assistant professor that, you know, that teaches just everyone who walks in, you know, who happens to take your class or classes. What is that like teaching for, you know, the general public like that they, they don't necessarily have a disability, um, or they could,
Speaker 0 00:30:35 Yes. Um, so one, well, one of the things is I, I look forward to the day in which I teach a blind student, actually, I haven't had that yet. Um <laugh> and so they all, they've all been cited. They have, I have had students with different types of disabilities. I'm very excited to accommodate. I want everybody to learn in my class. This is very important to me because sometimes I had professors that didn't care, but I care. Um, and it, it is, I feel like it's a privilege to be able to teach and to have a classroom that you get to conduct in the ideals that you hope to see in the world.
Speaker 1 00:31:15 So what is it like for you though, as a professor, do you struggle with, is there inaccessibility with materials? Oh yeah. Do you have to, what do you have to do? Like, what are some of the things that you have to yeah. Work with?
Speaker 0 00:31:29 So, yeah, that's a good question. So the first time I ever taught, I didn't know how I was gonna do it. Mm-hmm, <affirmative>, it's a biomolecular dynamics and control class and what that means to chemical kinetics class. And what that means is very, very visual. And I was like, how do I teach my students when I can't see the board? I can't write on the board. You know, I can't see the projector. What do I do? And so I came up with a system actually, and, and yes, a lot of it's depending on memorization, but I came up with a way to present the notes to them, and then they can copy down the notes and I can talk them through the material. And I actually published a paper about that, um, that you can read and it really helped make things more accessible to students, I think. But I had to devise that it was not an easy process.
Speaker 1 00:32:21 And what was like, you must have used some helping hands to help get things kind of in control. And in going there, what was that a hundred percent? What was that like?
Speaker 0 00:32:32 I, I use, I use access assistance or people all the time in my work.
Speaker 1 00:32:37 And is it easy getting, is it easy for colleges to be willing to sponsor or to pay for them to do that for people with disabilities? Cuz you're probably not the only one who uses those,
Speaker 0 00:32:54 You bring up.
Speaker 1 00:32:55 Is that a touchy question? Is it easy? It should be
Speaker 0 00:32:58 Easy. Let's put it that way. Um, I'm lucky in my college, you know, my university provides it. It was something that I actually was very clear about it before I was even hired that this is what I needed, but I would argue that it's not easy in a lot of institutions and that needs to change.
Speaker 1 00:33:15 And I would think that that could Harbor some secret, you know, uh, discrimination where people maybe wouldn't bring people who might need that in.
Speaker 0 00:33:26 Oh yeah. When I was applying to become a professor, I was totally discriminated against openly. I was told by, by, you know, individual, I, I was told once by an individual, I couldn't do the job. I was told by an institution that you're great, but we can't hire someone like you because we can't support you, which is totally against ADA. But I was like, okay, like, you know, you know, you have to pick your battles because I know I wanted to be at an institution that could support me and I, I didn't, I didn't wanna fight through. And I ended up here at Northeastern and I'm really happy. This is where I wanted to live anyway in Boston to go back.
Speaker 1 00:34:05 Yeah. You, you did kinda get your dream job, didn't you?
Speaker 0 00:34:09 I kind, yes, I did. I'm
Speaker 1 00:34:10 Very, I remember discussing this with you and you, this is where you want to be. And I was like, yeah, but the weather, but this is where I wanna be. <laugh>
Speaker 0 00:34:19 I mean, Minnesota, I, so for everybody else in there, well,
Speaker 1 00:34:22 That's true.
Speaker 0 00:34:23 While I lived in Minnesota and the weather there is worse.
Speaker 1 00:34:26 Well, I guess it's, that's true. But so what, what was it like for you to land your dream job? I mean, most people don't get that.
Speaker 0 00:34:40 I mean, I love it. I'm, I'm very happy and I'm very lucky. It doesn't mean it's always rainbows and sunshine. No. What there's struggles. There's things that come up. Um, you still have to, you know, the system, I I'm different for the system. I'm so outside the box, you know, there's a lot of discussions and the conversations around that, but at the end of the day, I'm, I'm definitely happy and I'm, I'm getting to contribute to society. And I am teaching students when, when, when I was a child and first diagnosed, there was a doctor who told my mom it wasn't worth spending a penny on my education.
Speaker 1 00:35:22 Oh.
Speaker 0 00:35:23 So I am happy to be able to be teaching students and have ironic to that, to that doctor. I wish I could find him. I mean, he might be dead now, but, and be like, really look at the impact that I'm getting to do now.
Speaker 1 00:35:40 Um, have you, are you involved in doing anything with like a, a blind stem curriculum?
Speaker 0 00:35:50 Oh yeah. I, I helped design <laugh> you read through my entire website, Sam, like I say, like, um, yeah, I held design. I actually designed a blind stem curriculum, which is a curriculum that's low cost it's accessible. And it was designed for a camp of two weeks for blind students to be able to run their own experiments from a to Z on their own, without using any eyesight.
Speaker 1 00:36:18 So stem, um, science, technology,
Speaker 0 00:36:23 Education and math. Okay. I mean engineering and math, sorry,
Speaker 1 00:36:26 Engineering and math. So it's a two week thing. Tell me
Speaker 0 00:36:31 About that. This, yeah, the curriculum was for two weeks. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:36:34 Okay. So how does this work? What happens there is it meant for camp?
Speaker 0 00:36:38 I won't give away all the details, but basically wow. The students get to experience everything from extracting DNA, from a strawberry on their own to making, you know, physio, lemonade to growing around. Like, you know, it's, the age group was like six to like 26, but it was really like six, you know, through high school, like six years old. Yeah. It's high school age. Um, and you know, engineering concept, exothermic, endothermic reactions. So you can feel, um, you know, just like experiments that you might find kids to get to do, but, but now it's like really encouraging them to do it without their eyesight at all.
Speaker 1 00:37:23 It's very hands on. So to speak.
Speaker 0 00:37:26 Yes. They have to. It's really important for, for a student to do their own project.
Speaker 1 00:37:32 So how long has this been out?
Speaker 0 00:37:38 Well, it's still under, like, I'm still trying to get it copyrighted. So I wouldn't say it's really out, out, but like, if you're interested for anybody interested out there, feel free to email me. Okay. And we can check something out.
Speaker 1 00:37:50 Yeah. You need to get that copyright. Yeah. Cause that's, that's a big thing, you know? Um, let's see. What else should we, what was the next thing you wanted to talk about? <laugh>
Speaker 0 00:38:06 Um,
Speaker 1 00:38:07 There's so much, I'm not sure what, which I should tackle. Um, do you, um, developing more accessible, scientific educational tools if there were things that, I mean, is there things that you feel that you really would love to develop that are not there yet?
Speaker 0 00:38:34 Oh, a hundred percent. Like we kind of touched on that with the tactile molecular modeling. Um, there there's so much, like I can't even begin to start enumerating them right now. <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:38:46 So any idea for like getting a nonprofit or something to, to do all these, help you with all these projects?
Speaker 0 00:38:55 Well, yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, we're keeping it under wraps right now, so we'll see, we'll see what I can come up with, but yeah. Um, we're maybe thinking of creating, um, actually a business just to make it sustainable where we sell some of these, um, scientific tools, but I don't have anything concrete yet, but it's coming soon coming soon. All
Speaker 1 00:39:18 Right. All right. This'll be a part two here. So what's the hardest part of being a professor for you?
Speaker 0 00:39:29 Sorry. Um, I think the hardest part is just the real lack of access to information. Like everybody else gets to be able to go online and like sift through really quickly, like thousands of abstracts or journal articles and read through them. And I can't,
Speaker 1 00:39:56 What's the most gratifying,
Speaker 0 00:39:59 The impact, the impact of teaching the students, the research, you know, when, when I submitted my first paper as, as, as the PI, as the principal investigator, I mean, that was like, that was amazing that I'm getting to contribute to the world as a scientist.
Speaker 1 00:40:19 How many classes do you teach?
Speaker 0 00:40:23 Uh, it's just one, it's just biomolecular dynamics and control like multiple sections of it. But yeah.
Speaker 1 00:40:28 So teaching something like that, which is pretty heavy anyway, um, your students must, you must get quite a reaction from your students. What what's generally their reaction to you?
Speaker 0 00:40:41 Yeah, they totally react to me. <laugh> um, well now I've built a reputation that, that like, I'm a great teacher, so thank you students. But when I first started, people didn't know who I was and I actually ran, um, I ran a survey that was anonymous and I got some really interesting results. So some students were really worried about having a blind teacher. Some students were like, found it as a unique adventure. Some students took it because they thought that I would be more accommodating. And some student, one student told me that his parents were mad to find out that I was blind. Really, which I'm glad didn't know until the end.
Speaker 1 00:41:20 And why? Because they felt their student wouldn't get,
Speaker 0 00:41:24 Yeah. They felt like their student would Egypt on their tuition, like for not getting a, like a, a good professor. And then this particular student said that I was one of the best professors who's ever had.
Speaker 1 00:41:35 Wow.
Speaker 0 00:41:37 So, but that's what his parents said.
Speaker 1 00:41:40 Yeah. It is an interesting thing. Isn't it? It's just, um, when you're in a, a subject that is much more rare for someone with a disability to be in any disability, the response can be very enlightening, I think, oh
Speaker 0 00:41:57 Yeah. I publish all those results too in that paper, but
Speaker 1 00:42:02 I
Speaker 0 00:42:02 Often, and now the students are just, they're just expecting something now. They're like, oh, it's gonna be great. And you're gonna be accommodating <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:42:09 And I often find or found when I was growing up and doing something that not little to no blind people who had done or very few that, um, there was this, you know, always the doubt, always the doubt where it sure makes you have to kind of pull into your own and, and feel like you, you, you better make it. You better not, you know, flop on this one because everyone's watching <laugh>. And that's what I think is so hard sometimes is that you're so watched and
Speaker 0 00:42:49 It, yeah, it feels like the, it feels like the world is waiting to see what I end up doing
Speaker 1 00:42:54 And, and often held to a higher bar than maybe just the normal professor
Speaker 0 00:43:00 Or just like waiting to see you almost fail. Now I have to say that I have really great colleagues and I'm really happy about that. Um, and I I've learned to really ignore that observation, but yeah, the students, like when they first took my class, they were waiting to see what would happen. Like it was like different than if they just took somebody else's class, you know, they were extra attentive to see what would happen because I'm blind.
Speaker 1 00:43:30 So anything coming up, that's exciting in the horizon that you can talk about.
Speaker 0 00:43:39 Uh, should we mention mission Astra access?
Speaker 1 00:43:44 Can you, are you allowed to yes. Then do it.
Speaker 0 00:43:48 Yes. For everybody. Okay. Mission Astra access. I mean, it's public news that I got to do this. So another project that I got to do was this zero gravity flight, where we were trying to make space, travel accessible to people with disabilities and actually, um, have people with disabilities contribute to, um, the volume of space travel and like, you know, and be contributors. So what, what happened is last November, no, last October, sorry. Uh, a group called mission after access, uh, led by Ana Ker and George Wek basically organized the first ever historic zero gravity flight that had everybody on there, like who flew was with a disability. And I was one of those people and I got to experience zero gravity and it was one of the coolest things I got to do. And then I got invited twice and now they're opening it up for another flight. So anybody out there who's listening has a disability and wants to experience zero gravity, definitely check out mission, Astra access and apply.
Speaker 1 00:44:58 So you, what kind of disabilities did you find people had?
Speaker 0 00:45:03 They did blind, deaf and mobility.
Speaker 1 00:45:09 And the object was to what?
Speaker 0 00:45:13 To observe and to run experiments. Like how does a blind person navigate, for example, end zero gravity and find their way back. How does a deaf person, um, sign and is it legible in, you know, zero gravity? When two people maybe are upside down from one another, um, how does somebody who is, you know, mobility impair, like navigate in zero gravity?
Speaker 1 00:45:39 <laugh> that might be easier for them. Um,
Speaker 0 00:45:42 Yeah, some of, sometimes it was, yes.
Speaker 1 00:45:45 Did they have anything out that people can read on this yet? That they can see? What, what the experiments
Speaker 0 00:45:53 They have a website for sure.
Speaker 1 00:45:55 Do you know
Speaker 0 00:45:56 Astra access?
Speaker 1 00:45:57 Oh, mission Astra access. Okay.
Speaker 0 00:46:00 I don't remember the, like, I don't have the website address off top of my head, but if you go to my website and click on projects, my website is Mona min. Carra M O N a M I N K a R a.com. Click on projects. You'll see all the different projects that I do. And one of them is mission Azure access.
Speaker 1 00:46:18 Fascinating. And what do you hope that they accomplish
Speaker 0 00:46:25 That we make spacecrafts more accessible that, you know, we start shifting our view of the fact that, you know, maybe astronauts can be individuals with disabilities and that's okay. Not just okay. But beneficial. That's what we hope to accomplish.
Speaker 1 00:46:42 This is usually change
Speaker 0 00:46:43 That mentality.
Speaker 1 00:46:45 It's usually the time where I give my assistant here, Charlene, some time to maybe possibly ask some questions. Um, so Charlene, do you have any questions that you'd like to ask Mona?
Speaker 5 00:47:00 Uh, no. I'm so blown away. I'm, I'm, I'm like topping in the aisles and wanting to read more about what's going on. You're really fascinating. Mona. It's kind of exciting.
Speaker 0 00:47:14 Thanks Charlene. <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:47:17 So is there anything else you would like to cover before we go?
Speaker 0 00:47:23 No, I think this has been plenty. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 00:47:26 What would be, it's
Speaker 0 00:47:27 Like weird to talk about yourself for a whole hour. <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:47:29 What would be the one thing that you have not yet accomplished that you would like to do? So
Speaker 0 00:47:38 Go to space. I don't know, make a huge scientific contribution. Um, I don't know, climb Mount Kija. There's a lot. So <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:47:48 Well, I wanna thank you very much for coming on. This has been great and I hope we covered everything you wanted and we wanna give you a website once more, if people would like to come on, find out more about you and find out about this mission. That's gonna go on with finding, um, things for people with disabilities to do in space. Hopefully. Yes.
Speaker 0 00:48:10 Yes. So the website is Mona minka.com. That is M O N a M I N K a R a.com. Thank you. <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:48:22 Thank you very much. I really appreciate you coming on tonight. And, uh, also thank Chrisa for, um, assisting with some of the topics. So thanks, Mona.
Speaker 0 00:48:35 Thank you, Sam. Thank you, Charlene. Thank you everybody for listening.
Speaker 1 00:48:39 Yes. Take care one, everyone to thank you for listening to the show and we will be coming up next week. Their topic is ALS. And so hopefully you will tune in and find out more about that. If you want me to ask questions to the doctors, that's going to be on, you can email
[email protected] and submit those questions and I'll be happy to ask them otherwise, just keep listening and you can also join us, um, by getting an email. And, um, maybe you have suggestions on topics and who should be on. Thank you so much. It's been real. Take care, stay safe and get your vaccine. This has been disability on progress. The he's expressed on the show are not necessarily those of cafe or it's board of directors. My name is Sam. I'm the host of this show. Thanks so much for tuning in Charlene dolls, my research person. And we've been speaking tonight with Dr. Moonman car about her story and life in science and, and technology and everything else. This is camp I 90.3, FM Minneapolis at camp dot. Thanks so much for listening. Goodnight.
