Speaker 0 00:01:02 And hello. This is Sam you're tune to disability on progress, where we bring you insights into ideas about discussions on disability, top at your tune to cafe 90.3, FM, Minneapolis and cafe or RG. And if you wanna be on our email list, you can email me at disability and progress. Sam jasmine.com. And we have tonight an Chi PETA Anne is with us and she is going to be talking about her new novel called hope for the tarnished. Good evening, Anne.
Speaker 2 00:01:34 Good evening, Sam and Charlene. How are you guys?
Speaker 0 00:01:38 Well, we're better now.
Speaker 2 00:01:40 <laugh> that's good. Am I coming through loud and clear?
Speaker 0 00:01:45 Yes, I can hear you. Good. I can hear you now. Okay.
Speaker 2 00:01:50 So I got a new, I got a new headset and everything, so I'm like so excited. Yeah, I got new stuff to try.
Speaker 0 00:01:57 So first of all, I guess congratulations are in order. Congratulations on the new novel.
Speaker 2 00:02:03 Thank you so much.
Speaker 0 00:02:05 It's exciting. Yes. So hope for the tarnished. I wanna start out by talking a little bit about, um, you know, this was your first novel that you were writing, um, something you've been, I'm sure. Wanting to do for a while. How long have you known you wanted to do a novel?
Speaker 2 00:02:28 Well, I, I, um, been wanting to write a novel for a long, long, long, long time and I kind of just worked up to it, you know, taking chances on other types of writing and then it, it finally just kinda, I said, well, I can't, I have to try it. I gotta take that next step.
Speaker 0 00:02:49 Yes. That's usually what it is
Speaker 2 00:02:51 About five years <laugh>. Oh, wow.
Speaker 0 00:02:54 Well, yeah, you did it though. You did. It did. Yeah. So how did you decide on the name?
Speaker 2 00:03:01 Very interesting. I originally it was called tarnished hope and uh, when I sent it to my, um, my publishing editor, she said, you know, I've been tooling around the internet and looking on Amazon, there's a lot of books with that name. You might not want to name it that you might wanna name it, hope for the tarnished because of we have a lot less, uh, titles with that. Um, and so that's pretty much how it went
Speaker 0 00:03:31 So interesting. You know, I always wonder like how people kind of pick their names for their book. How much of a SA I mean, I guess in the end it's, it's um, it's your, your call, but how much did you say it was your editor or your, your publisher?
Speaker 2 00:03:50 Yes. Um, the, uh, uh, the book prep services that I use, um, DLD books, uh, Leonard or DW, and she's the pretty much the main editor for me. Um, and, uh, I had wanted to call it tarnished hope because it that's, incap encapsulates the, I guess the story arch, you know, it's about a young girl, you know, she experiences a lot of trauma, you know, she feels sometimes that she's not worthy of, of having, you know, having, um, happiness in her life. And so that's how I got tarnished hope. And then, um, then Lenore is just like, no, there's too many books by that name. You need to change it.
Speaker 0 00:04:35 <laugh>. So I'm curious when you have a publisher, that's looking at your book and how much of a say, do they have, like what, what's their call?
Speaker 2 00:04:47 Well, when you're an independent author like me, I have, I have control over everything. And the editor, uh, has, uh, you know, she has input and as into the mechanics and book prep part, but the creative piece is, is the author. So I have full creative control everything from how I want the cover to look to what I wanna say on the back. Um, any, if there's anything in the book itself besides text like photographs or mm-hmm, <affirmative> quotes, things like that, that's all, all my choice. Gotcha. You know, the book prep, people just, that's what they help you do. They prep the book. They, they, they work with the, uh, software platforms and help you put in your catalog numbers and get you registered with your international, um, book numbers. But all the creative control is fine.
Speaker 0 00:05:43 Ah, so do you wanna set the stage a little more for this, this book kind of give people a little insight on this?
Speaker 2 00:05:51 Sure. Um, the book takes place in between the mid 1970s and mid 1980s. It's a, it's classified as a young adult novel, but it's more of a coming of age, novel mm-hmm <affirmative> uh, and it's, it's, uh, a general fiction novel also. Um, it's, uh, it's about Abby, uh, Raymond and her sisters. And they grow up, uh, in a small town along the Eastern, along the east coast. Uh, and it's about her, the how certain circumstances in her life. Um, some of them were negative experiences, some of them positive experiences, uh, like divorce and mental illness, but then there are hopeful things to the people and the mentors in her life that help her, um, some really good relationships that she had. Um, and then, you know, the book takes, uh, takes the reader through, um, a few years of her life. And at the end of the book, many things have resolved and, uh, like the title says it's, it's hopeful at the end. And that was what I wanted it to be.
Speaker 0 00:07:03 So this, this really is different, you know, you've done many poems and, and short stories and things like that. So what was it like writing this for you?
Speaker 2 00:07:17 Well, it was, it was really difficult, uh, because since it was my first novel, I had to really, I had to educate myself about novel writing. I had to cut my teeth on, um, how to, um, incorporate all the plot plot elements and the setting mm-hmm <affirmative> and the characters and the flow and the pacing, and then try to keep it, um, you know, uh, try to keep it, uh, within the 1970s, 1980s time period. There was a lot of research there. Right. Um, as well. Um, so there were a lot of things that I, you know, big wheel that had, I had to constantly, uh, monitor and, um, the book went through three major revisions, uh, and, uh, actually the first half of the book I scrapped and I started in another place. Oh, <laugh> <laugh>. So, um, I had beta readers that were so helpful to me. And if any of my beta readers are listening, thank you so much. You, you made the book, you know, and made me grow because of their feedback and their help. So, so it's a big deal
Speaker 0 00:08:33 As you wrote, like, did anything about this surprise? You, you know, maybe it's the process, maybe it's, you know, how you, you said you did some different, you started out one way and maybe did some different things. What was the biggest surprise you got from this book?
Speaker 2 00:08:55 Biggest surprise. Let's see. Um, the biggest surprise was how, how I, how the book ended. I had an idea mm-hmm <affirmative> of that. I wanted it to end on a positive note, but I didn't know it was going to end there, like, it, it kind of like wrote its own ending. And now it's a surprising thing for me, because as a writing your nonfiction or writing poetry, it's very planned and it's, you know, you, uh, this novel, just, it kind of it's surprised me at the end. I'm like, oh, well, that's the ending. Wow. <laugh>, you know, I didn't, um, you know, I was like, well, that's that's yeah, that's good. Uh don't know how I got there, but yeah. So, yeah.
Speaker 0 00:09:45 So I'm wondering, I I'll try not to give too much away here. Um, it is, it is, it does a lot of twisting and it's, and it's fairly as a, a novel, it's fairly twisted in, in the way of family dynamics. Um, and I'm wondering, um, as you say, the divorced family, the father, which we really don't, I don't feel like we really, like, I didn't get a real great sense of him for a while. Um, mm-hmm <affirmative> but he felt kind of grounded in his own way. You know, he chose, he chose another relationship, blah, blah, blah. Why did he not, did you have in mind why he wouldn't have fought harder to for custody?
Speaker 2 00:10:43 Oh, um, well I know that, uh, since the book was in the, you know, the, this 1970s and the divorce was probably around, uh, 1973 or so. Ah, I see, even though I didn't give an exact date, you know, with that whole thing, um, men weren't supposed to do that back then. Ah,
Speaker 0 00:11:06 Um, that is true. That men much less, much less mm-hmm <affirmative> you so much sense to that? Um,
Speaker 2 00:11:14 That is as a dad, he was a very traditional minded person. You know, he, you know, he took care of his family or tried to, um, you know, worked really hard and, uh, he just, you know, he felt, he felt, um, at the end he and Abby have a, you know, resolve a lot of their, um, relational issues. And he admits at the end that, you know, he felt like he was a failure as a dad because he didn't know what to do. And he just kind of, you know, felt, you know, helpless about things that happened, um, within, uh, while she was growing up and with the mom and her problems and stuff. So, yeah.
Speaker 0 00:12:05 What was the most, what did you feel was the most difficult part in writing this book?
Speaker 2 00:12:12 The sexual trauma? Um, the, there were the scenes, um, with, um, the mom's crappy boyfriend Dutch and, um, how he, uh, you know, how he molested Abby, that was a really difficult scene to write. And there were times where I couldn't write it, like all of it, like I had to step away from it for like a couple months maybe. Ah, yes. And really kinda figure out how I wanted to portray it. How much is too much, how much is not enough. Um, those kinds of things are just so, um, if you, if you don't, Uh, portray it correctly, it can really blow up the whole book. And I didn't want it to do that. Um, I wanted to, to really, um, have an effect on people, but not be too overboard. So that was hard.
Speaker 0 00:13:14 I wonder. Um, are any of the characters ones that, you know, if there was a character, you said you could relate to, or kind of identify with who would it be and why?
Speaker 2 00:13:31 Um,
Speaker 2 00:13:33 Well, I think I identify with all the characters to one ex one level or another, uh, because some of each of those characters has parts of my experiences within them as characters. I don't think I could have made them, um, the characters they were in the book, if I didn't have a lot of creative license with that, um, and take some of my personal stuff along the way with their characters. And I think what I mean by that is just my life experiences. Like I was a trauma counselor for a long time. Mm yeah. Um, I'm a child of divorce. Um, you know, I'm an animal lover. Um, when I was younger, I was, I was, uh, very active in, um, you know, like outdoor sports and hiking and all those things. Um, you know, I grew up on a boat on long on sound, so there was a lot of things that,
Speaker 0 00:14:27 Oh, there is a lot there. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:14:29 Yeah. And, and I didn't put it all in one person. I kind of like split it up and said, okay, you can have some of this and you can have some of that. And yeah.
Speaker 0 00:14:38 Was there anything personal or otherwise you learned about yourself writing something like this?
Speaker 2 00:14:46 Um, yeah. To be patient with myself And, and not feel like, uh, just because I put the book down for a year and I can't, I can't progress it anymore than it, than it had been, you know, in draft form for a long time. Um, just, just to, to, to be patient. And, um, that was, that was what I learned the most about be patient and write what I want to write, because it's what I need to write. It's what I should be writing. And don't second guess myself.
Speaker 0 00:15:21 Ah, I'm just trying to formulate that. There's an interesting Twisted plot that happens. And I don't wanna give away too much with this, but it's, um, Our main character she's, she's in the club and she discovers two people. She knows. Well <laugh> and, um, there's, uh, I would call it a little bit of a deception there because they are, in fact, they're, they're, it's a double, like, it's almost a double life that they have. Mm. Do you wanna expand anything on that as far as like, did you, I mean, is that anything that you've really feel like you've stumbled on or how I, I don't even know how you one would resolve that if that really happened, although I could almost see it happening, but like how would one really resolve that?
Speaker 2 00:16:28 Yeah. Um,
Speaker 2 00:16:32 So that scene actually kind of happened, but kind of didn't, it was just, you know, like I took some, uh, so we used to go to this club all the time, um, in this city and, uh, it was called the limelight. So that club is based on, you know, my experiences with the limelight and some of my first experiences with gay couples was at the clubs. Um, because I used to hang out my friend, Joe, and, um, he was gay and he would take me to all the clubs and I, I, at first, the first year or two, I was at these clubs, I was like, okay. Yeah, that's cool. <laugh> cause, you know, what am I gonna say? I just, you know, um, just checking everything out and, you know, whatever everything's good. I mean, I'm, you know, anyway, so, and then, um, about a year, a or two after I, I was starting to do this, you know, the clubbing and everything. Um, uh, I finally met my uncle's boyfriend and
Speaker 2 00:17:36 Everything kind of just came together for me. Um, you know, being, uh, seeing my uncle and his boyfriend and how much love they were with each other and how good it was for them and how, uh, and it was just beautiful. And I think that was my first real experience with, with that, with the whole scene. And it was also in the seventies. Um, and it was, it was just a really hard time, uh, in terms of, and, you know, and then after that we had, you know, the aids epidemic and all of that. And, um, I think that all that stuff was in a way was for me to, um, memorialize, uh, how accepted I felt in the gay community and I'm not a gay person, but I was, you know, I feel like honored that, um, that I was, uh, at, at that time back in the seventies and I was, uh, trusted with so much of that. And, uh, yeah, I still feel like that today. Like that was really cool stuff and it was, it affected me in a real, a wonderfully positive way. And, um, my uncle was responsible for a lot of that. So I think that was my, um, my thumbs up to uncle Tony
Speaker 0 00:18:58 <laugh>. Ah,
Speaker 2 00:18:59 Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:19:00 And there is a Tommy in the book, but not that, not that part. It doesn't play that role. <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:19:06 No, right. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:19:08 <laugh> so Anne, you, you hold a master's of science degree in marriage and, and family therapy. I'm wondering how much did that play into developing some of the characters that you developed?
Speaker 2 00:19:29 Well, that helped a lot, um, that if I didn't have that experience, I don't know if those characters would've had, um, the opportunity to, but to develop themselves, but they did.
Speaker 0 00:19:43 Let's see. Are you away from your microphone? You sound quieter.
Speaker 2 00:19:47 All right. How's that?
Speaker 0 00:19:48 That's better.
Speaker 2 00:19:49 Yeah. Yeah. No more static.
Speaker 0 00:19:52 Oh, it's just a little slight bit, but
Speaker 2 00:19:55 A little bit. Okay. We'll
Speaker 0 00:19:56 Have to we'll to live with this as long as we got the volume that's yeah. Um, how is that?
Speaker 2 00:20:01 Is
Speaker 0 00:20:01 That all right? That's better.
Speaker 2 00:20:03 Okay,
Speaker 0 00:20:03 Good. So, so you feel like that played into quite a bit of at least knowing how to resolve things or understanding how the emotional stuff worked in this relationships?
Speaker 2 00:20:19 Yeah. Uh, you know, there were times I had to go, I had to go back and, you know, review things, um, especially about, um, you know, mental illness or, uh, you know, what the court system would've been like back in the seventies for, um, Abby's sister, you know, uh, and things like that. And some of the things I had to kind of, um, lean on, um, myself creatively, because there wasn't a lot of information, um, back from back from back then, but I did the best I could. So
Speaker 0 00:20:56 You said it took about five years to write the book.
Speaker 2 00:21:00 Yeah. And, and it, it took, uh, it took like three years to write the, the manuscript and then I put it through the beta reading process and then I revised half the book after that. Ah, okay. So there was a lot of major revisions that went on, so
Speaker 0 00:21:22 It feels like, so we, we, the family has three children just to let the readers know. And I don't, I don't think they're spaced hugely far apart, but they are very, very different with how they deal with their drama and trauma. However, you there's both to the extent where I'm curious. Um, I, I have been, I've known families that have multiple children and it seems like when they have so much trauma like that, they're, they tend to have very similar outcomes with kids. But these ones, like while one, it was like, she was, I mean, almost not affected. Um, and the other one was severely. And then, you know, one of our main characters is she certainly is affected, but she deals with it differently. Is this common that you have such a diverse Difference in how they deal with it
Speaker 2 00:22:29 Actually. Yeah. Um, you could have five people in the room experience this, you know, watch the same thing happen and then have five different opinions about what happens in the room so that it, you know, and as a trauma counselor, um, and listening to especially war stories, um, Uh,
Speaker 2 00:22:56 It, um, <affirmative> it, um, uh, it would happen to be, you know, if, if we got like two soldiers together to talk about what happened, they'd have a completely different, uh, way of describing what happened to them, even though they might have been next to each other or in the same truck together or, um, that kind of thing. So, yeah. Uh, I think, uh, you know, that influenced, um, the characters and their trauma and what was going on with them, um, especially the divorce and, uh, and how the mother just, um, neglected them emotionally. And, uh, you know, they had to, you know, sink or swim, you know, they had to learn how to do thing two for themselves, or, um, find a way to deal with the trauma, um, with the help of maybe some other adults or, um, Abby, she, she turned a lot to sports and, uh, and she did have a few people in her life that, that kind of kept her on the straight and narrow, but there were times that she went off the path. Mm. So
Speaker 0 00:24:10 I'm thinking about one particular person that was the mother's boyfriend for a fleeting amount of time, um, that she Bonded Abby bonded with, um, pretty strongly, do you feel like he had a sense of, You know, that she came out as well as she did?
Speaker 2 00:24:36 Oh, you talking about Eddie? Yes. Yeah. Um, yeah, I, uh, at first I was gonna make Eddie a woman and then, um, then I decided it was, it was, he, she needed another male role model, strong male role model because of, um, Russ was just, um, You know, absentee for some many reasons. So, um, So Eddie, Eddie really kind of, uh, gave her the real deal without it being, um, parental. And I think that really helped ground her in a lot of ways.
Speaker 0 00:25:23 I wanna say, you know, in general that, um, the father came out with, I, I felt like the, the, how the girls accepted him was almost too good to be true. I'm wondering in your, you know, therapy life, The outcome, is it usually less, you know, because he was pretty absent mm-hmm
Speaker 2 00:25:50 <affirmative> um, yes.
Speaker 0 00:25:52 And so I was, I, my thoughts go to, like, usually that's not so easily forgiven. Do you, can you talk to that at all?
Speaker 2 00:26:04 Yeah. You know, I think that, um, that element of the story, uh, I felt like if I, if I D do, if I dove into that, it might, um, take the story away from where I wanted it to go. Yeah. Uh, you know, and I, you know, there's definitely, um,
Speaker 2 00:26:30 There's not enough there, I think. Uh, but also I wanted the reader to feel like the same way I wanted them to feel like he, he wasn't there and he was absent and he was just, you know, um, two dimensional person for a while because I, I wanted him to be out of the picture so that other people could come in, um, and, and be, uh, like Eddie to be a mentor. I mean, if, if Eddie, I don't think Eddie could have come in and been who he was to Abby, if her dad was doing all of what he should be doing. Yeah. Eddie replaced him in a way. Yeah. Um, and, uh, so I think it just ha that's, I think that's just how it organically developed for me. Um, I'm trying to get the characters to, you know, decide what's gonna happen for themselves. Um, and let that happen.
Speaker 0 00:27:35 Do you know, in your prior stuff that you've written, you've written a lot of different kind of, um, things, poetry, and, and your stories. I think run a lot of different things. Do you have a favorite genre you like to write in
Speaker 2 00:27:54 <laugh>? Um, I like, I like to, I like to write short stories. I do. Um, I work on them a lot. Um, they might be different genres, but I, I like to, uh, I like to keep short stories as part of my rep repertoire, because I think they help me. Uh, well, I know they helped me become, you know, better at writing a longer piece. Mm. But I also think it, um, I can experiment with characters and settings and pacing and all of that with a short story. And it's not as time consuming as a novel would be, or yes. You know, not as that's true.
Speaker 0 00:28:33 That's true.
Speaker 2 00:28:34 So, um, yeah, cause I could, I could take on a 3000 word short story and, um, you know, work on it and, uh, you know, fool around with it. And, but it's not, it's not a novel, so I, I like short stories and I love reading them.
Speaker 0 00:28:53 Do you think you'd ever write another novel?
Speaker 2 00:28:58 Yeah, I do. I wanna write another novel. I ha actually have a few, um, manuscripts, uh, and I haven't developed them yet past the first draft, but, uh, I might be pulling one out soon. <laugh>
Speaker 0 00:29:12 <laugh> all right. Watch out everyone. Um, what's your favorite to read?
Speaker 2 00:29:20 I I'm very eclectic. I read everything from poetry to, uh, to, you know, memoir. Um, I, uh, my guilty pleasure is monster hunting novels <laugh> and <laugh> and steam punk dystopian type of stuff. Mm. So, but I also like, um, uh, you know, hardcore crime, um, stuff like Michael Connolly, ah, um, and a Lincoln lawyer. And that's like, that's cool stuff too. So yeah.
Speaker 0 00:29:53 What do you want, like people to take away from your book here?
Speaker 2 00:30:02 Uh, that, uh, as bad as things can be, uh, You know, believing that there's something, uh, out there
Speaker 2 00:30:16 To, um, <affirmative>, um, to work on or, and achieve within yourself and with other people, you know, that's, that's a level of that's hope. Um, you know, we, we have this, we have life and we have, um, we have, you know, control over a lot of things in our lives and some things we don't have control over and we have to, you know, learn how to, you know, know the difference. And I think that was the thing for Abby. It's a, you know, she had these terrible circumstances, but she also had these little kernels of, uh, good things. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and they blossomed and they grew and because she grew, uh, and all these people had a role in how she grew as a person. And I think that's the main purpose of the book is that you can't do these things alone. Um, We need each other.
Speaker 0 00:31:15 Right. Um, and usually if you do there things dreadfully wrong later <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:31:21 Mm
Speaker 0 00:31:22 <laugh>. Uh
Speaker 2 00:31:23 <laugh> yeah.
Speaker 0 00:31:25 How can people find your books?
Speaker 2 00:31:28 You can go to www.andchapa.com and I spell my name, uh, with two PS and two Ts. So it's a N N C H I a P P E T T a.
Speaker 0 00:31:45 So Do you, Do you find that, do you ever think you'll, you'll do all of your own publishing and stuff, or will you always have somebody, do you think
Speaker 2 00:32:02 Helping people? Yeah, that's a great question. <laugh> I would love to be able to do it all myself.
Speaker 0 00:32:07 And, and what's the advantages for doing that?
Speaker 2 00:32:12 Well, I mean, I think for me, it's a, it's just, I would like to be given like one chance to be able to have more creative control that way, but I realize that maybe, maybe it's maybe I shouldn't do that. Maybe I should just concentrate on the writing and the technical stuff, uh, spur somebody else that's, um, can specialize. So, um, and part of it, you know, sure. I would love to be able to, um, to be able to do that, but, uh, you know, maybe, maybe I should just, uh, let the experts help me out, you know,
Speaker 0 00:32:51 Is it hard? Um, is there a lot of parts to it that you didn't foresee before you started doing it?
Speaker 2 00:32:59 Yeah. Uh, you know, working on the book covers is always hard because I can't see the book covers, but, and I have to trust that, that the people that say they're beautiful and they look great, um, really that they really are beautiful and look great. And thank goodness that has been the case for every one of my, um, my book covers. So, uh, that part of it was a little tough at first. Um, but then
Speaker 0 00:33:25 You really gotta kind of know your editor or know your publisher.
Speaker 2 00:33:28 Mm-hmm, <affirmative>, it's, it's a it's trust, you know, mutual trust. It's a relationship like anything else. And, uh, I learned a lot, um, as a professional too, mm-hmm, <affirmative>, you know, uh, I have a lot more confidence now in my writing and who I am as a person and, and what I wanna achieve, um, personally, you know, and professionally, and I just wanna keep going.
Speaker 0 00:33:54 Does your family read your writing?
Speaker 2 00:33:58 Some of my family does. <laugh> some of my family doesn't and I, I don't, I don't pressure them about it at all. It's like, if you want to fine, if you don't find,
Speaker 0 00:34:09 Um, are they your biggest, none of
Speaker 2 00:34:10 Critics? None of my beta readers are family <laugh>.
Speaker 0 00:34:14 Are they your big, the biggest critics that you have? <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:34:19 Um, it's funny. I, I do have a cousin that she reads everything I write and she loves it and she's supportive. And, but my immediate family, like my sisters or my husband and my daughter, I really don't pressure them about it. I don't really want to be that kind of person, you know, uh, I just, you know, if they wanna read it, then they can read it if they don't want to, they don't have to, you know,
Speaker 0 00:34:44 So do you think your next piece will be a novel or are you going to put out more short stories?
Speaker 2 00:34:51 Well, I'll probably, you know, always be, uh, trying to get, you know, put my short stories in the market anthologies or individual pieces or whatever. Um, I have a, an non-fiction book about, um, the human and animal relationship, uh, that I wanna finish and get out. Um, but it will be a shorter book it's not gonna be. And then, then I wanna work on one of the novel, um, drafts. So
Speaker 0 00:35:19 How do you come up with your ideas?
Speaker 2 00:35:23 <laugh> um, all kinds of ways, maybe something I hear, like while I'm waiting online, um, you know, I overhear a conversation, maybe it's, um, something I hear in the news. Sometimes it's a dream. Uh, it, it all depends. I, I, my, my mind is constantly going with ideas. Uh, some of them don't make it, some of them do,
Speaker 0 00:35:50 If somebody wants to dabble kind of in writing to see what they would be like, what do you suggest for them?
Speaker 2 00:35:59 Oh, wow. Well, to you, you would have first read, read, read, read, read, read, read a lot, read any, any chance you can get. And then, um, just sit down and write and don't, don't, you know, give yourself permission to write and, and not, you know, be, um, not don't edit yourself, you know, if you say, okay, I'm gonna write a thousand words today, then write those thousand words. And, um, and, and don't, uh, don't pick yourself to pieces, uh, and see what happens. And, uh, you know, over time, you'll be able to develop who you are as a writer, if you really, you really want to. I mean, and, and it's, um, it's an effort of discovery. And over the years, the is you, you just have to, you have to go at it and practice it.
Speaker 0 00:36:57 I presume though they should have some kind of like feedback loop, because, you know, you, you always get the person who thinks like, Ugh, everything I write is just dumb or whatever, you know, they, they, maybe they just have trouble having confidence with their stuff or feeling self-conscious about it. How do you go about picking someone to look at your stuff and say, Hey, you know, this looks good. Maybe you should do blah, blah, blah. Or maybe you could add to this, or you should quit while you're ahead. <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:37:29 Yeah. Getting feedback and opening yourself up to other people's critique. Really. It's like the biggest step, um, for
Speaker 0 00:37:39 How do you choose that though? How do you choose someone to do that?
Speaker 2 00:37:42 Oh, it takes time. And, and, uh, a lot of false starts, I think you have to find the right group of people, whether it's, uh, digit, you know, whether it's, you know, virtually or in person. Uh, and you have to be able to also, um, know enough about critiquing to give them your feedback as well. And when, when you find that triangle of, you know, being part of the group and giving and receiving, and, uh, it works great. And it's, it's, it helps you grow as a writer, but finding the right balance with people is the hardest part. Um, and they're, I mean, I, I, um, I fell into a couple of critiquing groups over the years. Mm-hmm <affirmative> that, um, that really helped me. And, uh, I, I, right now, I only really keep to one small group for my poetry. And, um, For my longer stuff, I, I, I have developed my tribe as they say, <laugh>, um, of writers and we, we share everything back and forth, but it it's, it's networking. You gotta find the right people who like to read what you write and vice versa, and you've gotta give it and be able to, um, receive it, and then also be able to give it back to somebody to help them. So it's,
Speaker 2 00:39:15 I know I'm making it sound complicated
Speaker 0 00:39:17 And it really isn't, it's so complicated because, you know, it's like, okay, what if you don't know how to critique? Like, how do you learn that whole thing of how to critique? Like, I might be able to Critique a short story and, you know, depending on what they want critiquing on, like, do they want it on content? Do they want it on, you know, but poetry, maybe not so much. So how do you learn? I mean, there's gotta be some rules to the road, so to speak, how do you kinda learn what to do?
Speaker 2 00:39:52 Um, well, the, well, for any critiquing, you know, um, knowing what you like to read and, um, what interests you. Um, so maybe you are a critiquer that likes to just critique about character and plot and theme. Maybe you are a critiquer, that's more like a line editor and you wanna focus more on dialogue and flow and stuff. So knowing what you're, you're attracted to when you reach somebody else's work, that's important. The other important thing is to, to have a ratio. Um, so if you find something that maybe you want, you know, you say, well, this doesn't sound right. You want to, um, give the negative and the positive feedback and equal numbers. So the person doesn't feel like all you're doing is nitpicking their stuff. Um, And, uh, <affirmative> and, uh, and be clear also about what you're looking for in critiquing. If you don't want line editing from somebody, then you just wanna know about, um, do the characters, um, feel real. Do, does this scene make sense? Um, you be clear about what your needs are, uh, and if you're not sure what the other person wants you to critique on, ask, ask questions, you know, what, what, what do you want me to focus on? Uh, and you'll find that, um, people appreciate that.
Speaker 0 00:41:17 Tell us when's more where people can find your writings.
Speaker 2 00:41:22 You can find my writings on www.anpetta.com. Uh, I am on Amazon. Um, most of my books are on audible smash words, Cobo, uh, you name it I'm there <laugh>
Speaker 0 00:41:37 Are, do you think you'll have this, do you think you'll ever put this novel on BARR?
Speaker 2 00:41:44 Uh, right now this novel is up for narration, um, for audible at the end of the summer. Cool. And then after that, I will probably figure out, um, how to transfer those files onto bar.
Speaker 0 00:41:59 Cool.
Speaker 2 00:42:00 Yeah. So,
Speaker 0 00:42:02 So Charlene doll is my, helps me with my research. I usually try to give her a chance to ask questions. Um, Charlene, do you have any questions in regards to this book or Anne's process?
Speaker 4 00:42:18 Um, it was an interesting read. I, I, uh, some of it actually resonated pretty closely to <laugh> my experiences. Um, it, it felt, it felt real.
Speaker 2 00:42:35 Thank you, Charlene. That's uh, That's great feedback.
Speaker 0 00:42:42 Is there anything you'd like to leave us with in regards? What's your favorite part of the book? If you had to pick
Speaker 2 00:42:47 A favorite book? Yeah. Oh, there are a lot of favorite parts. Um, Um, One of my favorite parts, but one of the funnest parts of the book was the pieces with the, the, the little devils with the Pomeranians and the family. That was fun. I mean, that was like the funnest, I mean, cuz it was just fun. I got to, I got to really, um, get into, uh, you know, can you imagine having seven
Speaker 0 00:43:22 Pomes no, I cannot, but I can imagine a lot of little dogs and peeing all over the place. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 00:43:28 No, it's ridiculous. But it worked so, you know, it was fun.
Speaker 0 00:43:32 Yeah. Well I just wanna thank you. We always love having you come on and congratulations again with this. I hope it's successful and I will hopefully look forward to your next batch of stuff coming so that you can be on with us again.
Speaker 2 00:43:52 That's great. I love being here. I love, um, spending time with you and, and sharing, you know, what it's like to be creative and uh, So it's great. Thank you.
Speaker 0 00:44:05 Thank you so much, Ann, have a good night.
Speaker 2 00:44:08 All right. You too. Bye.
Speaker 0 00:44:12 Hi Mrs. Cafe 90.3, FM Minneapolis and K F do org. This is disability and progress and I wanna thank you for joining us tonight and Anne Chita with her novel hope for the tarnished. Thank you Charlene, for being there, holding up the internet walls. And um, I wanna encourage you to email us if you like what you're hearing, email
[email protected] and next week I won't be here, but I will be the week after next week is the heavy metal stuff. If you're into that, please come there and uh, listen in because there'll be a lot of it. Um, after that we'll have some theater, um, after that we'll have, I'm not sure. And after that we'll have stuff on ALS. Um, we're always trying to bring you new and interesting topics and revisit old ones to find out what's going on in the research part of it. So this is disability and progress. Um, the views expressed on the show are not necessarily those of K or it's board of directors. My name is Sam. I'm the host of this show. Thanks so much for tuning in this is K FFI, 90.3 FM Minneapolis and K ffi.org, Charlene dolls. My research team, email us at disability and progress. Sam, jasmine.com. Thanks so much for listening. Goodnight. Oh, one more thing.
Speaker 0 00:45:45 We have a podcast. We have a lot of podcasts. Go find our podcast, ask your smart speaker to play disability and progress and you will be able to catch up on our latest and greatest. Thanks so much. Goodnight.
