Speaker 0 00:00:00 Okay.
Speaker 1 00:00:08 <inaudible>
Speaker 0 00:00:59 And thank you for joining disability and progress, where we bring you insights into ideas about and discussions on disability topics. And my name is Sam. I'm the host of this show, shelling dollars, my research woman. Hello, Charlene, good evening, everyone and happy pledge. And Annie Harvey is my engineer. Thank you so much, Annie. Um, and tonight of course is pledge light. And you can do that by, in going to cafe.org/port, or you can call (612) 375-9030 and somebody is Manning the phones and he, we don't want them to get lonely. So go ahead. Use the phones. Uh, and tonight we have a guest with us, Melissa almond. Melissa is an advocacy and government relations specialist for the seeing school guide dog training. And she is with us. And we're going to be talking about the recently adopted and implemented us department of transportation, final ruling of, um, traveling by air with service animals. So hopefully that all made sense to everyone. And am I coming through? Okay, Annie, I must be Shelley and you can hear me okay. Yeah, you sound good. All right. Excellent. Well, thank you for joining us tonight, Melissa. Hello. Hi, thanks a lot. Um, I want to start out by, you know, giving people a little bit of a history on you and how you came to the scene. Could you start out with that please? Absolutely. So I was matched with my first and current seeing-eye dog Luna, who is a yellow lab, golden cross. I was matched with her. It was 40 years ago on February the first. So that was a pretty anniversary
Speaker 2 00:03:00 To celebrate. And at that time, when I was matched with Luna, I was living in Chicago and practicing fair housing law. At that point, I'd been living there for about two, about a year, a little over a year, and I continued to be there and do my thing in Chicago until I found out about this amazing job, you know, I was litigating and I was thinking I'd like to do more focused work on advocacy related to people with service animals, but there just didn't seem to be a niche for that. And then suddenly there was this awesome job at the CNI that opened up, uh, for advocacy and government relations specialist. So I applied, I am honored and privileged to say that I have been working at the seeing eye now for, it will be three years at the end of April.
Speaker 0 00:03:57 Ah, congratulations. Thank you. And, uh, you do a very nice job by the way, too. I, I have sat in meetings, listening to you speak and, and, uh, you do a great job things. So I want to talk about the average advocacy and government relations specialists. So what exactly does that mean and what kind of things are you responsible for knowing?
Speaker 2 00:04:26 So what I do, I do a number of different things. One of the things that I do is I provide our graduates with assistance when they either need information about their rights in various contexts, like public access or housing or air transportation in terms of traveling around with our, you know, with, with their guide dogs. So that's one of the things that I do. I provide information and resources. I, even though I am a lawyer, technically I'm not practicing law in my job, so I can't provide actual legal advice, but I can provide information about the laws, which means that I'm responsible for knowing as much as I can about the Americans with disabilities act, department of justice, implementing regulations. Um, also the department of transportation regulations, the air carrier access act, and also about guide dog protection laws in various States, or at least having enough information that I can guide our graduates as they seek that information.
Speaker 2 00:05:37 And then sometimes I do connect people with ways that they can get legal assistance when they've exhausted other options and they need to take legal action. I also maintain now resources. So we have a portfolio of resources on our website at cni.org/access concerning the legal rights and information. And I maintain those resources and keep them as, as up-to-date, as, as possible. And I also do some work around legislative and policy initiatives. Sometimes a graduate will say, Hey, we're trying to strengthen our guide dog protection law, or in a case that we're we have right now, Hey, we would really like to have a guide dog protection law in Maryland to help protect us from interference. Can you help us track that and be supportive of that legislation? And so things like that will come up,
Speaker 0 00:06:30 It sounds like you are extremely busy.
Speaker 2 00:06:33 It's a fun job. And I do trainings and outreach. Um, they've been on zoom for the past. They used to be in public and I used to travel places and do things like that back in the good old days, right? Yes. But, you know,
Speaker 0 00:06:51 I will have to say that zoom has provided us with some good things too.
Speaker 2 00:06:55 I'm extremely grateful for it. I really, really am grateful for it, for sure. So
Speaker 0 00:07:00 I want to get to, um, the meat of our conversations, but before we do, I do want to let everyone know that it is indeed pledge week and we need your support. You can support us by going to cafe.org, um, and clicking on the pledge now button, or you can do that with your smartphone app, or you can call (612) 375-9030. We're speaking with Melissa on the Melissa is a advocacy and governance government relations specialist for the CNI. Um, so I want to talk about the U S department of transportation's ruling on the travel by air with service animals. This has seemed to be flipped around a lot in the past couple of years with what we need to do, what we don't need to do. So why did they feel there was a need to dis decide to change things up?
Speaker 2 00:08:04 That is an excellent question. So really the reason was that in recent years, since the last department of transportation regulations were implemented, more and more people have been traveling by air with animals to mitigate their disabilities. And so at the previous regulations protected, covered emotional support animals and service animals, but given the proliferation of people, traveling with animals to mitigate their disabilities, it became clear to the department of transportation. I think air carriers would feel this way. And I think many service animal handlers would say that they're just the law was confusing and there were some, and that we're not sort of accounting for the changes in sort of the way people were traveling with their animals. And it was difficult for air carriers to determine whether or not service animals were actual service animals. And if they were emotional support animals, where are they going to be able to withstand the travails and trials of air travel?
Speaker 2 00:09:23 Were they trained to do that? So that's why the department of transportation said, okay, we're going to come up with some regulations that clarify a lot of this. And they took a while, but it was last year at the beginning of 2020 when they issued their notice of proposed rulemaking at included their proposed rule. And they asked for comments and gave us 60 days. And boy, did we have a lot of comments because there were things in there that were of great concern to many of us. And then we waited a while at while they reviewed our comments and agreed and decided on a final rule, which was, which became effective on January 11th of this year.
Speaker 0 00:10:10 All right. So let's dig into what that rule was. And by the way, um, I, I deliberated whether I was going to comment or anything, but yes, and I know there were a lot of people traveling with animals that were not, that were not what they said they were. Um, and that was a problem. And, and we saw that in the airport, plenty of times with my, my service dog. And I saw that, okay, so let's dig into the meat of this and talk a little bit about what this is. What do you have to do to now travel with a service animal?
Speaker 2 00:10:54 So there were a lot of really significant changes in the rule and some of them, I think it depends on who you are, whether you're a service animal handler, whether you're an air carrier about how you feel about the changes, but it's sort of a mixed bag. We got some things that people are happy about. And some things that people aren't, there are things that the airlines are allowed to do. And there's things that, that are just, this is the way it is. This is mandated. So for example, now a service animal is a dog that is individually trained to perform a task for the benefit of a qualified person with a disability, regardless of breed or type. So the airlines that were getting away with imposing breed restrictions, DLT, wasn't, it wasn't technically allowed, but they weren't really doing a whole lot about it, right?
Speaker 2 00:11:47 Um, that is definitely a no-no at this point, they're not allowed to do that. However, in the past a service animal or an emotion, so emotional support animals were covered and they didn't have to be dogs. Now they all have to be dogs and they must be trained to perform a task. So that means no more cats, no more, whatever other animals people might me feel that they need to find spirits. Now it's just dogs and it is the dog must be trained to perform a task. Now, this does include psychiatric service animals. That was something that was that people who work with psychiatric service animals were really concerned about that they were going to be, cause they'd been sort of lumped in with emotional support animals. So, so airlines are now allowed to classify emotional support animals as pets and most airlines are choosing to do that.
Speaker 0 00:12:45 I need to stop you just a minute because, um, I want you to give the definition. So people who don't understand the difference between emotional support and psychiatric service dogs.
Speaker 2 00:12:56 Absolutely. So a psychiatric service dog is trained to perform a task, to, to mitigate, to assist, to benefit a person with a psychiatric disability. And the thing is that many times those disabilities are invisible disabilities. Our, our disability, as, as blind people, we are people who travel with our guide dogs. And it's often you were holding onto the harness. The dogs guiding us. Usually that's pretty obvious, but someone whose dog is mitigating an invisible disability that may be crucial to the person, but it may not be obvious to everyone what it is. So that is where it would get a little bit confusing for people. But an emotional support animal is different because it's mere presence mitigates the disability. It doesn't have to be trained to perform a task. And it does not have to be trained to behave necessarily in public. That's not one of the things that is focused on with emotional support now.
Speaker 0 00:14:02 Okay. Okay. Carry on. Sorry. Okay.
Speaker 2 00:14:05 Well that's, that's quite all right. Cause there's a lot. So, but what do you have to do now to be able to travel with your service animal? It's different. It used to be that you didn't really have to disclose if you were traveling with something like a guide dog, you could just show up that day to fly and you could disclose in your reservation, if you, if you were going to be asking for accommodations, you could disclose that you were traveling with a guide dog, but you didn't have to. You did, if your disability, if there was a need for documentation, but now no matter who you are traveling with a service animal airlines are allowed to require that you complete a form that is, um, it it's, it's, it's the service animal air transportation is what they're calling it. And you are attesting to the animal's health behavior and training on the form.
Speaker 2 00:14:59 Now the airlines are required to make the form accessible and fillable on their websites. If they're gonna, if they're gonna require it, they're, they're supposed to do that. Uh, many we've worked very hard and in the last couple of months to work with the airlines to try to get them to make the forms accessible, um, I'm on the legislative and advocacy committee of assistance, dogs, international, uh, uh, assistance dogs, international North America, and together, we've worked really hard to try to get the airlines, to make those forms accessible. And there has been a lot of progress. There are a couple of airlines who are still a little bit behind, but that's one requirement. The airlines are allowed to require the form either at the gate, um, in, in hard copy or they can require it up to 48 hours in advance. So, you know, presumably in most cases that that just ends up being electronically. Some airlines
Speaker 0 00:16:04 I'm going to stop you just a minute again. Yeah. So are all the things the same on every form on this form for
Speaker 2 00:16:13 Question, it is a, the airlines are required to use the standard us department of transportation and airlines who are still working on making their, uh, form accessible. They are starting to refer people. The department of transportation has a sample accessible fillable form on their website. So there's one airline. I know that is sending people there to use that form, which is fine because it's exact, it's exactly the same. It's a standard form.
Speaker 0 00:16:46 If you did not, if you were not able to fill it out 48 hours in advance, could you actually take the form, print the form and have a person in the airport help you fill it out before you went?
Speaker 2 00:16:59 Great questions. So, um, one thing I didn't say yet, and I want to make sure I do say is if you have emergency situations or spur of the moment situations where you've made your reservation less than 48 hours in advance, they have to just take the form at the gate. But to your point, if they are, if an airline is requiring that you do it 48 hours in advance and you don't, they are still supposed to try to accommodate you. And if you are, especially if you are someone who is unable because not everybody has a computer, not everybody is tech savvy and not everybody has access to those things. So the airlines are required to make an accommodation for you. If you need them to and assist you to fill a form out, as long as it doesn't cause an undue burdens. So if you get to the airport 15 minutes before your flight and you want them to help you fill out the form, they could probably say no, because you're going to delay the flight. But if not, they should be making an accommodation and assisting you to complete the form. There really, isn't a way for you to call the reservations desk ahead of time and do that because they want you to sign it. And there is an accessible way to sign that you can just type in your name. But I think that's one of the reasons, um, that that's, that's an issue, but yes, they're supposed to provide that accommodation
Speaker 0 00:18:28 On that form. And that presumably that form is standard to all airlines, but maybe not accessible at all. Airlines websites
Speaker 2 00:18:40 Are you required to be there. And most airlines are coming into compliance with that.
Speaker 0 00:18:46 Are there other forms that need to be filled out?
Speaker 2 00:18:50 The only other form that needs to be filled out? If your flight is eight hours or longer, there's a relief addressee form that you have to fill out basically saying that your dog will either can relieve in a sanitary way that you can clean up and manage or does not need to relieve itself. Um, during that flight, it's not a both, and it's an either or unless you choose to provide both. And again, that is also a standard form.
Speaker 0 00:19:21 So what happens if you know, your dog is sick and you have to go on this flight and you don't think that they'll do anything, but if an accident happens.
Speaker 2 00:19:31 So I think, um, accidents always happen. And the don't really address that. I think that's a situation where if you think you need a backup, you want to put on there that you, um, you think you have a sanitary way to manage that and say what that is, but then it, then it just comes down to a practical matter of if I know that my dog is sick before I leave, do I need to kind of rethink my plans a little bit for the best welfare of, of my dog as well?
Speaker 0 00:20:05 Mm yes. So there's these, there's all these things that you had to fill out with this form. Talk about, you know, do you still have to take, you used to have to take your dog to the vet to get an, uh, wellness checks type thing. Do you still have to do that?
Speaker 2 00:20:30 Well, you didn't have to do that in order to fly. You didn't have to. There wasn't a regulation that allowed airlines to require, um, necessarily that you do that. Although some airlines were asking you to carry your rabies vaccine, and there was nothing that precluded them for doing that. So all you have to do really is attest to the fact that you have to provide your veterinarian's name and phone number, the training organization's name and phone number. You don't have to get them to sign anything on the form. You have to provide your dog's vaccination date and the date the vaccine expires.
Speaker 0 00:21:08 Ah, but you don't have to, excuse me. You don't have to carry the rabies certificate with you.
Speaker 2 00:21:14 You don't when it's always not according to the right place, but it's always a good idea to do that anyway, because you never know when you might need that when you travel. But the regulations don't, don't say that you have to, the form also says that you can be charged for damages if your dog damages anything and you, um, an airlines would have a practice of charging for damages in similar circumstances. And the form does ask you to attest that everything you're saying on there is true. It does ask for the name of your dog, but the transportation department has something on its website that talks about how airline employees should not use the dog's name so that it won't be distracted, but they do.
Speaker 0 00:22:02 Don't give them the name of if we give them a fake name.
Speaker 2 00:22:05 I think if you, if, if there's any part on the form, you don't complete that could raise a red flag for the airlines. It's also possible that they just won't pay attention, but it, they could say, you need to, you need to fill in this information. And if you, someone asked me if I put a different name on there, that isn't my dog's actual name. Well, you know, if something happens and there's a behavior issue, because you also have to say on the form that your dog is not aggressive and doesn't have a history of fighting and so on and so forth. So if there was an incident and the dog that your vet had on file, wasn't the dog that you mentioned on the form that could raise some questions, would it wouldn't necessarily come up. It's really hard to know, but they do ask for the dog's name.
Speaker 0 00:22:56 Why do you feel that that's so important for that? Cause a lot of us don't like to give out our names.
Speaker 2 00:23:02 I do, I don't have, I don't feel that it's important that it's just, that's what they have decided to do with their form. And I think that their reason is because they want to link the dog to the information. If I see in fact they need to verify things. So for example, there is an airline that is deciding that they are going to reach out to training organizations. If they do get one of these forms and say, can you verify that you are really good
Speaker 0 00:23:36 Training organization? Somebody who's got time.
Speaker 2 00:23:39 Wow. They're allowed to do it and they've done it. And so that's another situation where could come up is the name that's given. Isn't the same. I see.
Speaker 0 00:23:49 Okay. When, when someone comes to seeing eyes, see nigh matches for anybody who doesn't know guide dogs with individuals and they stay there for a certain time and they go home, what do you guys do then when the person is going home to kind of help them, um, how do you guys, you know, help expedite this process when, when the person's getting ready to leave? Well, that's a really good
Speaker 2 00:24:19 Question because we haven't been doing this very long. So our, our strategy right now is to offer, to assist in any way that we can with the form, uh, with the completion of that. And a lot of times people don't know some of the information on that few days before they leave. So we do whatever we can to assist with that process. And if the student decides that they would like to do the form themselves and they have a computer on which to do that, or they want to use one of our computers, of course, we provide them with an accessible copy of the form, but we are there to make it as easy as possible for the students that are getting ready to take this first big flight home with their,
Speaker 0 00:25:03 Um, so another, um, concern I would have is in my training, although they didn't, I'm not sure that, that they focused on this last time I was there, but previous, they really did kind of emphasize if you can, at all, help it to put your dog under the seat and to not sit necessarily in the bulk area. Um, and I understand, you know, bigger dogs who kind of have to do that because they may not fit under the seats are getting smaller and smaller the area in front of them or under them. Um, do, do you feel like, excuse me, that people are having trouble with, um, the airlines changing their seats to the bulk area. If, if they tell them they're bringing a guide dog and they've chosen their seat already and they don't want to sit in that area,
Speaker 2 00:25:58 That's a really good question. I think that that continues to be an issue that comes up. I know I've experienced it and sometimes I'm okay with the bulkhead, depending on how the bulkhead is shaped. If it's one of those ones where it's there, there's all this space and there's room for her to kind of go under the bulkhead and that's fine. But if it's one of those skinny bulkheads where she has to turn sideways and go into the foot space of a neighboring passenger, then I'm not so thrilled about it. And I will say that the regulation has not changed concerning bulkheads. You can ask for a bulkhead as an accommodation, but if it's not the seat you purchased, you can't force to there that has not changed. What the new regulations do say is that they make it very clear that your dog has to fit in your foot space.
Speaker 2 00:26:53 So that's the space in front of your seat. And in our case, it would be putting our dogs under the seat. And also by the way, you're allowed to have two service animals. So you could also have one on your lap. That's just what the regulations say. But they also say that if your dog has a large breed, the airline is supposed to be making an effort to accommodate you. If your dog doesn't fit, either by offering you a space where your dog will fit another seat or a seat, um, next to an empty seat, or next to somebody who doesn't mind sharing foot space, that has not really changed, but they do make it. I mean, they say that for large breeds, there is supposed to be an attempt to make that accommodation and what they were proposing was pretty negative. And, and so we're glad that they gave a little bit on, on that, but they don't have to offer you a seat that is in a class above what you purchased, unless they want to be sure don't have to,
Speaker 0 00:27:56 But they can't, um, say that's the only seat we have to offer to get your dog to fit. And now you have to pay the upgrade. Can they?
Speaker 2 00:28:05 No, no, it's there. If they're gonna make you sit, if they're saying, if they're offering that as an accommodation, they should not be charging you extra for that. If you're saying I want to be there because my dog has more room than you would have to pay for that. But if they're saying, this is how we're going to accommodate you, I would argue that they shouldn't be charging extra for that.
Speaker 0 00:28:35 How does somebody, if they're having trouble with filling out forms and maybe getting pushed back from whatever there is happening with their service animal to airport, how can they advocate for themselves?
Speaker 2 00:28:48 Excellent question. So let's just say you're being forced to sit in that bulkhead that you don't want to sit in because you didn't buy that seat. He deliberately didn't buy that seat or you get to the airport and you're, you need assistance filling out the form. And they say, no, any of these things you can ask to speak to a complaints, resolution, official accrue, and a CRO is someone who will resolve, who will try to come up with a resolution to discrimination complaints. And they are required to provide you with one. And if they say we don't have crows, which I've actually heard that they say there isn't one available today, which there is always one. So if that happens, then that's another discrimination. That's another. And if you're not satisfied with the resolution that the Crow reaches, or you can do this anyway, but definitely if you're not satisfied with that, then you can file a complaint with the department of transportation.
Speaker 0 00:29:52 So if they say, I'm sorry, we don't have a CRO available today. Then we should presume that's probably false that there always is well
Speaker 2 00:30:02 Correct. They have to make one available to you, either on-site or via phone. So they can hand you a cell phone and say, here's the grow, but they have to make one available. Ah, now one area where this is kind of gets dicey is like, if the doors are about to close or something, yes. And that, that they can then say, they may be able to say, it'll have to be after we land. And that doesn't mean just because you're, you can still pursue the discrimination complaint after your flight. There's no requirement that it be right there, but there's also an FAA hotline that you can call and there's information about that on our website. And they can sometimes facilitate resolutions, but they're available between nine and five, Monday through Friday. So you have to be flying during that time.
Speaker 0 00:30:52 But also though, if it's a seating difficulty, you probably have to do what they ask you to do.
Speaker 2 00:30:59 Yeah. That it gets, it gets, it can get complicated sometimes though, when you ask for a Crow, one of the things that has happened to people is when they ask for a Crow, sometimes the problem magically goes away because it doesn't want to have to yes. Get a Crow. So that happens.
Speaker 0 00:31:20 So you, you say as long as you can get, if you can't fill out the form in 48 hours and have to do an emergency flight, if you can get that in or get that to the gate before you have to get on the plane, it's acceptable. So
Speaker 2 00:31:36 What the regulations say is that if you make your flight, if, if your flight reservation is made less than 48 hours before the flight, then the airline is not allowed to require the form in advance and has to accept it at the gate.
Speaker 0 00:31:55 Ah, okay. And accept it, meaning that it should all be filled out a blank form.
Speaker 2 00:32:02 It should be. But if you, again, if you need assistance, you can ask for an accommodation. One of the things that's hard about the form is that, um, only one airline that I'm aware of has an HTML version of it. It's it's in Adobe. So you have to download Adobe in order to complete the form and it's free. Adobe is free, but if you open it up in your browser, the form may not look accessible. So you've got to open it in Adobe, which maybe others have a great way of doing this, but I've not figured out how to do that on my phone and get it to be fillable on my phone. And so that's why we're really to encourage airlines, to go to an HTML format, which some of them are working on. And that's a process
Speaker 0 00:32:46 When you fill out these forms, how long are they good for
Speaker 2 00:32:50 Another really good question. The, the regulations say that it's per reservation. So the airlines are allowed to require that you complete the form, each reservation, not each leg of your trip. So if it's a round trip and it's one reservation, you should only have to do the form. Once. Now there are a couple of airlines that are allowing you to, uh, use the same form within a certain timeframe. So Alaska airlines, as long as your vaccine has not expired, you can, can you have, uh, an ID that they profile that they help you create or that you can create using their website. And so then your form is good until your dog's vaccine expires. And American airlines is letting you do that for up to a year. As we know, some of us have three-year rabies vaccines. So, so that can be, that can be helpful.
Speaker 0 00:33:45 It does get hard. Having airlines though, have all these different, you know, you can do this for this long or another airline. You can do this for this long, or we'll keep your form for this long. Um, you know, you just don't know how do you know?
Speaker 2 00:33:59 Well, so what, what I would say is that I agree with that and that anytime you fly, it's important to go to your airline, the airline that you've chosen, go to their service animal policy and look at it. Uh, they, they make it pretty clear on their websites, what they expect. So that is one thing that I encourage everyone to do. Like go to that airlines website, see what they are, see what they're doing and know that before you go,
Speaker 0 00:34:32 I want to talk about, um, flying out of the country. Are there different forms that you have to fill out if you're going to fly, not within the, you know, out of the U S
Speaker 2 00:34:44 So if you're flying, airlines can require the forms. If you're, if there's a point in the U S so if you're flying, maybe you're flying somewhere else, but you start out in the U S or you end in the us, um, they can require the forms once you're outside the us. And like, let's just say, you're flying from one point to another point outside the U S then you want to know the regulations of those countries. How do you find that out? So you can find that out. Um, you know, one, one way to find that out is by you want to make sure, you know, the import and export requirements for your dog and the USBA is, is a good source for those types of things, in terms of health requirements. And if there are any tests that your dog needs to have, like a T a rabies titer test or anything like that. And if you really, if you have questions about these things, you can also contact the consulate of the, um, of the country that you're traveling to. And you can, if you're, if you're a graduate of the CNI, you know, one of the things we get a lot of questions about international travel, and we can, if you want to reach out to
[email protected], we can provide as, as we have it about, um, about the export important export requirements in those situations.
Speaker 0 00:36:15 So this ruling that has just been established pretty much is subject to change. Actually, it's only good for X money, or is it, am I correct?
Speaker 2 00:36:27 I, that's not my understanding. I don't think that we're looking at it changing any time soon. There have been some conversations about possible strategies that some organizations are considering for, what could we do to get this overturned and whether or not they are successful with that is, is something that I, I'm just not really sure how that's going to go, right?
Speaker 0 00:36:52 And I thought maybe they were going to re-look at it and like 20, 23 or something.
Speaker 2 00:36:57 Um, they, you know, they could do that. But I think for now, these are the regulations that we're, we're, we're dealing with.
Speaker 0 00:37:05 There's the seeing, I feel that, um, there should be something saying, um, that guide dogs are exempt from these forms at all.
Speaker 2 00:37:22 What I can say is that we are looking into strategies to try to make this as easy for guide dog handlers as possible. And we are continuing to dialogue with the airlines about those issues. I will say that we're very aware that for over 90 years there have been guide dogs in the us. And we are, we have been traveling with our dogs for many, many years since Morris Frank took that first flight on United without forms, without some of these burdens that have now been placed on us. And we are exploring those issues very closely.
Speaker 0 00:38:10 Hello. I think I would argue on the other side though, that it, that it seems like at least in my, my thoughts that it's not necessarily that they're trying to punish the guide dog users, but, or the service dog users, but that it's all the others that kind of ruined it or bringing things in that they shouldn't bring in or lying about it, or be doing fraudulent stuff. And it's kind of like, where do you draw the line? What do you do to implement something that at least helps take out some of the riff Raff?
Speaker 2 00:38:44 Well, I think that's something that I think that that's how a lot of the airlines are feeling at this point. I think that's their perspective. And I would also say that I think there are guide dog handlers, and I'm not speaking for anyone. I just know that there are some guide dog handlers that don't feel like the forms are a big deal, and I'm perfectly willing to fill them out. I've heard from a lot more people that are upset about the forms, but there are definitely some who are sort of like, Hey, I don't mind. It's just, it's not that big of a deal in it. And I'll have less interference in the airport, presumably. So just, it's interesting because our community, there are mixed views on, on this, even within our community.
Speaker 0 00:39:30 Are they upset? Because, because it, it's not accessible all across the board all the time, or are they upset because nobody should be questioning me.
Speaker 2 00:39:41 So first of all, they have that. The other thing I would say too, is that I would agree with you that I don't think the airlines set out to punish guide dog handlers. I don't think that that was their, their goal. And I think people are frustrated really frustrated about the lack of accessibility. Again, that has improved dramatically since January 11th. So, but it's still not, it's still a work in progress and it, and the regs do require it. So people are very frustrated about that. And then I think other people are frustrated because the, because that was not a burden that was imposed on us before, and now it is. And, and you and our dogs, of course, they're not perfect, but they are trained to behave appropriately public. Right.
Speaker 0 00:40:32 But for me, I can't tell you how many times somebody's dog has jumped off their lap and started yapping at my dog, or somebody's dog has popped their head out and sent me jumping in the area as a startling, you know, because they had it, they were had it in their purse or whatever it was,
Speaker 2 00:40:51 I'm right there with you and concerns about. I mean, I, I think that one of the things that's good about these regulations is they make it very clear. What types of behaviors are grounds for not being allowed to travel with your animal? And I, I actually, one airline employee had a really interesting way of saying this. She said, one of the things that they sometimes say is your dog. We cannot classify your dog as a service animal today based on the behavior that we are seeing. We're not trying to say that this is not a service animal, but this behavior is not going to allow us to have you fly this dog in the cabin. Groundling jumping lunging, right. Eliminating in the airport. There, they're very clear about the types of behaviors.
Speaker 0 00:41:42 Gotcha. Um, is there anything else that we should know about traveling with guide dogs?
Speaker 2 00:41:50 I think that one, the best thing to do is to educate yourselves. All of us, we, we, we have to make sure that we know what our rights are, and we have a summary of the regulations and links to them, and also to the accessible form on our
[email protected] slash access. So, and then you can go from there to airlines and cruise ships, and that has all of the information. You can also reach out to
[email protected]. That's our, our advocacy email address. Another thing that I did not say about these regulations, that's important to know is that our dogs must be leashed, tethered or harnessed at all times. So just make sure that that is the case. Of course, we take our harnesses off. Most of us take them off and, and, and, and have our dog be under the seat. But of course the lease should always still be on. And that's something that the regulations are very clear about now.
Speaker 0 00:42:55 So I want to make sure that I touch on this again, because I feel like maybe I wasn't clear enough because, um, if you are having trouble filling out the form, you can go to an accessible place and fill it out, print it and bring it in on. Who would you give that to? Exactly.
Speaker 2 00:43:15 So what I would say is that I want to stress though, that airlines are allowed to require the form 48 hours up to 48 hours in advance. And if you are not able to do that, you would request an accommodation and you would go to the gate agent and ask for assistance, filling that out. I think, um, I think that it's going to be a learning curve. I think that gate agents are not used to providing that kind of assistance and they're overwhelmed. So what they have to find, you know, how busy it gets to the gate. Oh yes. So, so if the gate agent can't do it, and I think the question is which airline employee can now, I think what they don't want though, is for everybody to be saying, Oh, well, I couldn't do the form. And then you get people just lining up, asking to do the form at the gate. I think there needs to be, I think there's an expectation that there needs to be a good faith effort to do it up to 48 hours in advance. If you've made your reservation early, assuming the airlines website allows for that. But if you can't and you need that accommodation, they are supposed to be making an effort to make that there are some airlines actually, that don't have a way of uploading your completed form yet. So they're just saying, bring it to the gate. Wow.
Speaker 0 00:44:42 That's what I was saying. If you, if you did print out the form and got it filled out beforehand, you could bring it in, just hand it to them.
Speaker 2 00:44:50 Yes, yes we could. And or if the airline has a way of doing it, like there is one airline that's having you email it to them. Uh, there's one airline, only one that has an HTML form that you can fill out. But, but a lot of them don't have a way of capturing the data yet. So I would encourage everyone regardless of what the airline is doing. Just bring a copy of the form with you anyway, that all filled out. And even if you can't fill it out on your phone, you can, once you have filled it out, you can probably open it up on your phone. One, several airlines have said, if you don't have a printer, cause not every I don't have when I'm on out somewhere, I don't have a printer. So you, you are able to also, if you don't have a physical copy, you can pull it up on your phone and they will accept it that way as well.
Speaker 0 00:45:42 Melissa, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2 00:45:45 This has been really, really fun. I really appreciated the opportunity and, and of course, you know how to reach us if, if you have any questions. Thank you very much. Thank you. Have a great night.
Speaker 0 00:45:58 We have been speaking with Melissa almond. Melissa is an advocacy and government relations specialist for the seeing eye guide dog school. My name is Sam. I'm the host of the show. Annie Harvey was my engineer and Charlene dolls, my research woman, and it's polenta week. It's our last week for awhile for, um, pledging. So please get your pledge in at cafe.org/support or (612) 375-9030. And Annie, I think we need to hear another clip. We sure do. Um, we have some clips from DHS, from a previous show, um, that we're about to roll. Thank you. And I want to talk about income levels. Um, you know, I think right now it's really difficult. People's income is being affected. Um, many, many companies have figured how to have people work from home, but not all. And some companies have folded and some people have been laid off. Actually a lot of people have been laid off. So what happens in the sense of if somebody is already in affordable care housing or affordable housing and they lose their job and what happens with that whole rent thing and how does, how is this affecting everyone and what protections do they have? Yeah, this is Rachel. So we're talking in early and
Speaker 3 00:47:30 We know that a lot of households have lost income. They've lost formal income. So they lost their job due to COVID that was wage paying, and maybe they've had access to unemployment insurance, but as of today, we don't know of any extensions and a lot of those programs are running out of time. And people also earn income in informal ways, maybe caring for a neighbor's kid or doing some odd jobs driving for one of these apps services. And there are fewer protections for those households. Certainly. Um, I did just get a time so fortunate to have at my fingertips. Our research team, um, reminded me that we have 100,000 households for printers and, uh, homeowners in Minnesota who are very low income. So that's sort of the poverty line and below very low income where there's a member of the household who has a disability and of those households of those hundred thousand households, um, person with disability and very low income over 75% of them are what's considered cost burden.
Speaker 3 00:48:35 So already before the pandemic, they were paying 50% or more of their household income toward their housing costs. So we already had some really serious issues that households were facing in Minnesota. And the pandemic has, um, really emphasized in terms of the protections. What are the safeguards? Um, fortunately for the lucky few who are living in some kind of subsidized section eight type development, uh, those section eight vouchers adjust for household income. And so there are some protections and safeguards built in, but for most people that isn't how their rent works. Rent is rent and rent has to be paid or house payments, association, dues, property taxes, utilities, they have to be paid. So, um, we've had in place in Minnesota since, um, early in the pandemic and eviction moratorium at the state level, there's also a CDC federal eviction moratorium. So we are not seeing a lot of evictions.
Speaker 3 00:49:34 There are very few in unlimited circumstances that are moving forward, but we also know the rent is still due. You may not be able to be evicted for not paying, but the rent is still due and that households are very behind. So again, we're talking in early December, we just wrapped up Minnesota housing, um, had access to $100 million of federal cares act funding that we used for an emergency housing assistance program specific to COVID the federal rules. The money runs out at the end of December, 2020. We don't control that. But, um, we also, uh, we're able to use, we saw households access all $100 million that does put a real point on what we are facing in Minnesota, that we, in a short few months, we just started this in the, in the fall, um, uh, used $100 million to help people catch up on missed payments where they were already behind.
Speaker 3 00:50:30 So we know that going into 2021, uh, resources support, um, to keep people housed is going to be critical. We need more help with the safe guards. Um, there's lots of advocacy happening on that front. We hope it's successful. Uh, it is certainly certainly easier to keep people housed and support them in place than it would ever be to recover from a wave of evictions or a wave of housing loss. That would be truly devastating. And so, uh, continuing to work hard at the state level, federal local advocates to push for support for people so that we don't see housing loss. We've been fortunate this far, but we have a ways to go, can you, Oh yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 0 00:51:14 The eviction moratorium is in place for,
Speaker 3 00:51:18 So my understanding, I hope I get this right, but that the federal does and this month, and this is a CDC, uh, federal moratorium, but the state of Minnesota eviction moratorium is more comprehensive. And so as the, it supersedes the, the federal, but the state of Minnesota is paired with the governor's state of emergency. And so it has continued with each, uh, renewal of the state of emergency.
Speaker 0 00:51:47 And certainly, um, we're seeing cases rise. So the idea that if it ends federally this month, we sorely need something to be reenacted or something.
Speaker 3 00:52:01 Yeah, we certainly do. I watch the news every day. I'm sure that we all are in hopes that some additional, uh, you know, both at the state and federal level is where we may have the opportunity to see more resources come through. We are standing by if we had more housing assistance to help households, we would absolutely, um, mobilizing and work on getting that out the door.
Speaker 0 00:52:23 How have you had to change how housing services are being delivered because of COVID-19?
Speaker 4 00:52:32 Yeah, this is Gertrude. Um, so since the pandemic began, um, we have really worked closely with housing providers across the state to make it easier for them to provide critical services. Um, and so the state has invested really significant amounts of money, um, to make this possible. It was a $5.5 million appropriation to increase housing support payments this spring. And this helped over 20,000 adults keep their housing. Um, there was another 26 million appropriation too that helped with homeless shelters to help them respond to the pandemic. And the other thing that, um, we did was to temporary, they lift paperwork, which we viewed as burdensome and make it easier for people instead in financial crisis to get assistance without having to go to their County or tribal office in person. And so, um, these are some of the things that we're doing on our end too, because we are on blimp again on that income support side to make the services, housing services available to people in a safe way.
Speaker 0 00:53:59 All right. And we are back and, um, Charlene, are you still with me? Yeah. Excellent. So, um, I forgot about that, that show. That was a good, you know, that was an important show. Um, and I really enjoyed this, this one too. I hope you have enjoyed it and hope all that are listening out there have enjoyed it. And, um, Annie, I bet you're still there and you guys have people have just four more minutes or so to get in before the end of this hour for pledging for us. And I think Daniel is, is still on the phone for four minutes and (612) 375-9030. And I know I made my plan that's well, this was playing because it was just so convenient to call in there and say, Hey, take my, take my credit card. Um, but we do definitely can use a need your support.
Speaker 0 00:55:09 And if you value the info that you hear each week that we bring you, then please show your support by going to cafe.org/support or clicking on your, um, button in your smart app, or by calling (612) 375-9030 for just a couple minutes more. Um, but you could probably call tomorrow too and specify that you wanted to go to disability and progress and I don't directly get your money, but the station sure does. And the station uses it for all sorts of great things. And I want to, um, emphasize that we're working on the computers, but that the, um, board, when I go in, when I do get to go in again to, you know, after COVID time to engineer my show, it is an accessible board. So I'm very proud of that. And I have, you know, there's things brailled on there on the browser remain.
Speaker 0 00:56:09 Maybe people have been so nervous, I may have to rebrand, but it is an accessible board, all these great slidey pods that you can do. So hopefully you will support the show. Um, furthermore, I want to welcome people to join our podcasts. We do lots of podcasts. Please feel free to listen to those. And, um, I want to thank also the people who sent in questions tonight for me to ask Melissa in regards to service animal travel. And you too, when you see a show coming up that you would like to respond and ask questions, you can always email me at disability and progress at Sam, jasmine.com and submit your questions. You can either do that for that. Or you can get on our emailer, same, same email address, disability and
[email protected] and ask to be put on the emailing list. And you'll get a list of shows that are coming up and you can, are always welcome to submit questions and ideas. I guess that's what I got for you for tonight. Showing do you have anything you'd like to add before we go? No, thanks for listening. And if you can keep us on the air with a little bit of
Speaker 1 00:57:29 Spare change,
Speaker 0 00:57:31 This has been disability and progress. The views expressed on the show are not necessarily those of K five K F a I except for the pledging or its board of directors. My name is Sam. I'm the host of the show, shelling dolls, my research team, Annie Harvey, who is my engineer. Thank you to Mason for splicing. The clips that we heard tonight. Thank you to also to Melissa almond. Melissa is an advocacy and government relations specialist for the same guy who we spoke with in detail about the, um, traveling with service animals does KPI 90.3 FM, Minneapolis and KPI i.org. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1 00:58:10 <inaudible>.
